Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Canadian rugby

Posts: 116
Joined: Tue, 29 Sep 2015, 21:25
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Was_a_Kat » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 17:58

Don’t dress Parfrey and don’t play Barkwill more than 55 minutes.

Posts: 937
Joined: Mon, 02 Jun 2014, 03:08
Location: Ontario
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby LittleGuy » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 19:43

Did Piffero retire from International rugby? I know he had a good job in Aerospace, so figured that was the case. Hooker is a tire fire. Barkwill should be playing 20 minutes as a sub at most and Howard is dreadful.

Not that Piffero was much better than these guys but he had at least fitness over Barkwill and inoffensive anonymous play when compared to Howard.

Agree with the previous comment on lack of depth, that bench will have almost no one even close to who they replace.

I'm guessing the "best" bench is....

16. Howard
17. Duru
18. Ilnicki
19. Larsen
20. Heaton
21. McRorie
22. Blevins
23. Sauder? Parfrey?

That's pretty ugly, with only maybe 2-3 guys I want out for anymore than a few token minutes at the end of the game, with an even further drop off with the seven or so players who won't be on the game day roster.

User avatar
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue, 22 Apr 2014, 16:02
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby jonny24 » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 19:57

http://canpl.ca/video/york-9-fc-unveils ... and-beyond

York9 CPL plans for York Lions Stadium, where the Arrows will play. Although by the sounds of it they'll be at Alumni filled for 2019 while the work is done.
Norfolk Harvesters RFC 10-0-0 NRU "B" Division Champions

Posts: 392
Joined: Sun, 06 Dec 2015, 06:42
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 20:40

LittleGuy wrote:Did Piffero retire from International rugby? I know he had a good job in Aerospace, so figured that was the case. Hooker is a tire fire. Barkwill should be playing 20 minutes as a sub at most and Howard is dreadful.

Not that Piffero was much better than these guys but he had at least fitness over Barkwill and inoffensive anonymous play when compared to Howard.

Agree with the previous comment on lack of depth, that bench will have almost no one even close to who they replace.

I'm guessing the "best" bench is....

16. Howard
17. Duru
18. Ilnicki
19. Larsen
20. Heaton
21. McRorie
22. Blevins
23. Sauder? Parfrey?

That's pretty ugly, with only maybe 2-3 guys I want out for anymore than a few token minutes at the end of the game, with an even further drop off with the seven or so players who won't be on the game day roster.



Duru is lazy and shouldn't be any where near the bench. The team needs workers, not just big bodies.

Posts: 34
Joined: Tue, 18 Oct 2016, 17:59
National Flag:
WalesWales

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby north walian » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 20:49

LittleGuy wrote:Did Piffero retire from International rugby? I know he had a good job in Aerospace, so figured that was the case. Hooker is a tire fire. Barkwill should be playing 20 minutes as a sub at most and Howard is dreadful.

Not that Piffero was much better than these guys but he had at least fitness over Barkwill and inoffensive anonymous play when compared to Howard.

Agree with the previous comment on lack of depth, that bench will have almost no one even close to who they replace.

I'm guessing the "best" bench is....

16. Howard
17. Duru
18. Ilnicki
19. Larsen
20. Heaton
21. McRorie
22. Blevins
23. Sauder? Parfrey?

That's pretty ugly, with only maybe 2-3 guys I want out for anymore than a few token minutes at the end of the game, with an even further drop off with the seven or so players who won't be on the game day roster.


What is you starting line up then?

Posts: 116
Joined: Tue, 29 Sep 2015, 21:25
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Was_a_Kat » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 20:54

According to BCRN, Piffero is a non-travelling reserve.

I feel like never giving him a good run as a starter was a mistake. It’s not like there was much gained under Barkwill.

I also think that after getting passed over, Piffero took a step back. I know a few guys who did that and got on with life.

Posts: 937
Joined: Mon, 02 Jun 2014, 03:08
Location: Ontario
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby LittleGuy » Sat, 27 Oct 2018, 13:29

north walian wrote:
LittleGuy wrote:Did Piffero retire from International rugby? I know he had a good job in Aerospace, so figured that was the case. Hooker is a tire fire. Barkwill should be playing 20 minutes as a sub at most and Howard is dreadful.

Not that Piffero was much better than these guys but he had at least fitness over Barkwill and inoffensive anonymous play when compared to Howard.

Agree with the previous comment on lack of depth, that bench will have almost no one even close to who they replace.

I'm guessing the "best" bench is....

16. Howard
17. Duru
18. Ilnicki
19. Larsen
20. Heaton
21. McRorie
22. Blevins
23. Sauder? Parfrey?

That's pretty ugly, with only maybe 2-3 guys I want out for anymore than a few token minutes at the end of the game, with an even further drop off with the seven or so players who won't be on the game day roster.


What is you starting line up then?


Pretty much the same as marvin's with a tweak(or two).

The roster basically picks itself in most of these positions.

That sucks to hear about Piffero, with a solid outside career I don't blame him for only being partially committed a this point.

User avatar
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri, 16 May 2014, 17:25
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Sun, 28 Oct 2018, 19:02

The team I would like to see from the choices available.

1) Hubert Buydens
2) Ray Barkwill
3) Jake Ilnicki
4) Josh Larsen
5) Brett Beukeboom
6) Kyle Baillie
7) Evan Olmstead
8) Tyler Ardron
9) Phil Mack
10) Shane O’Leary
11) Taylor Paris
12) Ciaran Hearn
13) Conor Trainor
14) DTH van der Merwe
15) Matt Evans

16) Eric Howard
17) Noah Barker
18) Matt Tierney
19) Mike Sheppard
20) Luke Campbell
21) Gordon McRorie
22) Theo Sauder
23) Kainoa Lloyd

I don’t buy the hype of Hong Kong yet, though what they are doing over there is real impressive and I’m pretty jealous. And Kenya shouldn’t be too worrisome. They have some speed for sure but aren’t known for forward play or defence. Germany is the one that scares me. They’ve come back together after the upheaval and troubles of the last year and recently shown, on their best days, they can hang with Spain, Russia, Romania and even Samoa. If they play in France the way they played Samoa in Germany then they’ll be headed to Japan.

Posts: 95
Joined: Thu, 19 Oct 2017, 21:52
National Flag:
New ZealandNew Zealand

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Immenso » Sun, 28 Oct 2018, 20:59

Olmstead was great for Auckland in Saturday's NPC final v Canterbury which went into extra time. He really came into his own during extra time, the best player on the field by that stage of the game, what an engine he has.

He'll probably need the full 2 weeks before the repechage begins to recover from that physical effort ....

Posts: 50
Joined: Wed, 28 Oct 2015, 19:10
National Flag:
NauruNauru

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rufusbuck » Mon, 29 Oct 2018, 08:33

TheStroBro wrote:
snapper37 wrote:
Tobar wrote:If any national u23 were to survive there would have to be strong provincial u23 competitions in place otherwise were just grabbing at air here. Not everyone will be willing to travel cross-country so you have to get as many clubs as possible for each province to get enough quality players for this competition. If only there was some sort of Canadian rugby championship that provincial u23 players could join in conjunction with their actual clubs like an all star team. Call me crazy but I think it could get made.


The argument that not everyone will be willing to travel is nonsense, they do in junior Football and shit minor hockey. The idea is it should be run by the sub-unions and run on a west meets east for a final with the National body paying to host the final. Currently the CRC is a joke, its run over a weekend, giving no time for the coaches to actually coach other then manage personalities.

Obviously the guys travel from all across Ontario to play for the Blues. But his point is that you need a full U23 competition in each province to make it work unless you go by how Rufus wants it, without a tertiary goal of an MLR team to feed into because all of the overseas clubs are lining up for Canadian services right now... :roll: :lol:

The reason it works in Football is that it has existed in some form or other since 1908. Current form since 1974...the structures have been in place for a very long time...and that's why it won't work like Rufus wants, we're talking a decade's worth of investment...but you still need a pro-league to sit atop that for players to work towards. Also we run into the whole: how does a player feed themselves if they have to commit 20+ hours per week to this with no pay? University sport it's easy, outside of that it's kind of a meh. You say you need "blue collar" kids and not guys who go to Uni, that's dumb as shit though. You need the best athletes without regard to how well off they may have been raised.

It will take a decade. If a U23 league had been created when it should have been, in ‘98, there would likely have been a Canadian side in Pro 12 by now. Regardless, the structures already exist. The Mavericks and Gold programs are playing again, albeit in a farcical rump competition. It would be relatively easy to implement the league, just as Superleague was launched in ‘98. Eight teams to start, two in BC, two in Alberta, three in the Rusting Horseshoe and one in Ottawa. Two conferences, twelve intra-conference games, home and away twice against each opponent. Many, many athletes compete outside University sport at that age in Canada. MLR is here now, so the point about having a pro league to which kids aspire is moot. But neither the NSMT nor Canadian domestic pro rugby will succeed without
a U23 high performance development league.

Posts: 50
Joined: Wed, 28 Oct 2015, 19:10
National Flag:
NauruNauru

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rufusbuck » Mon, 29 Oct 2018, 08:52

Buffalo wrote:If you want a U23 league then go ahead and start one. Go get the support of the communities, clubs and unions and then go find the money from the donors to make this happen because nothing happens without cash. And then convince those U23 players to give up months if not years to this dream of yours. Keeping in mind they will not receive any real compensation for their blood and time and have limited professional opportunity because every top league has player quotas and Canadians fall outside more often than not because we just can’t compete with the multitude of SANZAAR trained players available for the limited spots.

But bud, it seems the majority of Canadians in this thread are tired of hearing about this weird obsession of yours so could you please just drop it. At least for a bit. It is literally never going to happen and anyone that matters is starting to look towards MLR as the North American pathway so maybe just embrace it instead of being so seemingly bitter and angry at the fact people are finally trying to get rugby on track here simply because it doesn’t fit your view.

Hilarious. I’m not bitter in the least. I find the idea that Canadian club rugby is going to provide a player base for three or four professional teams amusing. It doesn’t anger me. There is a significant deficit in either reading comprehension or critical thinking among posters on this thread, you included. Lots of emotionality like reality tv. I have said repeatedly that I wish MLR every success, but I see no reason to expect it given the complete failure to address the question of from whence will come the hundred-plus players required for three pro teams in Canada. Like I said, it was recognized in the mid-nineties that a high-performance domestic competition was needed, and a development structure as well, hence Super League and CCSD. Neither was adequate and yet magically in the current absence of any league and any long-term development program, a pool of high-caliber players will suddenly appear to fill the rosters of a sports entertainment product? No substitute for magical thinking, to be sure.

Online
Posts: 1375
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 29 Oct 2018, 16:17

Ontario Arrows have already started their academy investments with a U20 program. Every MLR is required to invest in an academy set up over time. So where will the players come from? Eventually they'll come from their academy and the university system in Ontario.

Posts: 25
Joined: Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 20:38
National Flag:
IrelandIreland

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Rugga » Mon, 29 Oct 2018, 18:20

How many Players to Canada have right know that can play up to Mlr level or above?

Posts: 301
Joined: Mon, 29 Sep 2014, 01:34
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadaman » Mon, 29 Oct 2018, 18:56

Canada easily has the players for 2 teams in MLR, probably 4 (look at the CRC). Right now the CRC is still about what the level of MLR is. The longer MLR continues, and its standard should rise in a couple of years, the less players we would have. The CRC is pretty much dead anyway. Vancouver needs to get into MLR soon, they need to get their act together over there and check their egos at the door. In a perfect world the CRC would have merged with MLR, but oh well.

For November, to me it is a simple thing, if Canada stays healthy we should advance to the WC. If we have a couple key injuries then things get dicey. We can field a starting XV better then HK, Germany and Kenya, but out depth is not what it used to be. Olmstead, Ardron, Mack, O'Leary, DTH have to play all 3 games. The only position where we coudl lose teh starter and I believe we wouldn't really see a drop off in form would be at 3, possibly 1.

My 23 would be:

1) Hubert Buydens
2) Ray Barkwill
3) Jake Ilnicki
4) Evan Olmstead
5) Brett Beukeboom
6) Kyle Baillie
7) Matt Heaton
8) Tyler Ardron

9) Phil Mack
10) Shane O’Leary
11) Taylor Paris
12) Ciaran Hearn
13) Conor Trainor
14) DTH van der Merwe
15) Matt Evans

16) Eric Howard
17) Noah Barker
18) Matt Tierney
19) Josh Larsen
20) Luke Campbell
21) Gordon McRorie
22) Theo Sauder
23) Kainoa Lloyd

I can see why some would want DTH at 13, but I would have him on the wing. Trainor is a good enough 13 and should rip most of these back lines apart and off load to DTH in support to score the try.

Posts: 1304
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 00:32

TheStroBro wrote:Ontario Arrows have already started their academy investments with a U20 program. Every MLR is required to invest in an academy set up over time. So where will the players come from? Eventually they'll come from their academy and the university system in Ontario.


Just looked it up and Ontario has 31 Universities. Which is a huge number but anyway. That suggests that if the Arrows were proactive they could start talking to say 10 or so of them to help set up or bolster Universities competition designed to feed directly into their academy system and beyond.

Online
Posts: 1375
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 00:54

There are 10 Universities that play rugby under the OUA banner: http://www.oua.ca/sports/mrugby/2018-19/standings

Chris Silverthorn and his assistants have all come up through the OUA system as coaches sans Carpenter. 10 High Performance programs are more than enough to feed into the Senior Academy and hopefully the Arrows utilize the systems currently in place. Pretty sure they will as there's no point in reinventing the wheel.

Pro Sports is like throwing spaghetti at the wall, usually it doesn't stick.

Posts: 1304
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 01:50

TheStroBro wrote:There are 10 Universities that play rugby under the OUA banner: http://www.oua.ca/sports/mrugby/2018-19/standings

Chris Silverthorn and his assistants have all come up through the OUA system as coaches sans Carpenter. 10 High Performance programs are more than enough to feed into the Senior Academy and hopefully the Arrows utilize the systems currently in place. Pretty sure they will as there's no point in reinventing the wheel.

Pro Sports is like throwing spaghetti at the wall, usually it doesn't stick.


I was wondering how many had it as a HP sport. Having 10 is certainly a very good base to start with. Hopefully they'll be able to convince them to get on board and play a few more games than the current 8 they do for the sake of player development. Considering they have this in place to look to work with then perhaps its the HS level they should look to address. In my opinion you need to have 10x as many people playing at each rung down the pyramid. So if there's 10 Uni's playing it at a HP level fielding at least 2 teams then you need 10x that number of HS fielding at least one full roster from each respective stage of HS. All linked with the Arrows and funnelling up.

Posts: 92
Joined: Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 03:39
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 15:14

There's a wide spectrum between first and worst in the OUA and OCAA (trade and technical colleges). I haven't followed intensely over the years, but can't remember as many 60, 70, 80+ point blowouts as there were this year: http://www.oua.ca/sports/mrugby/2018-19/schedule Some that were utterly dominant a few years ago are shadows of their former selves as well.


"High Performance" depends on what coaches put into it, especially as none (maybe a few?) will be getting the attention, money, etc. of other, higher profile, sports because the uni teams aren't competing nationally (women's rugby is because it's paired with men's football) and the college teams don't really have a profile at all, with most students only staying for two years.

There are some incredible players in the OCAA who shouldn't be ignored just because uni isn't for them, but there are also some in both leagues that are barely better than good high school players.

Online
Posts: 1375
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 16:04

Used2BwithIt wrote:There's a wide spectrum between first and worst in the OUA and OCAA (trade and technical colleges). I haven't followed intensely over the years, but can't remember as many 60, 70, 80+ point blowouts as there were this year: http://www.oua.ca/sports/mrugby/2018-19/schedule Some that were utterly dominant a few years ago are shadows of their former selves as well.


"High Performance" depends on what coaches put into it, especially as none (maybe a few?) will be getting the attention, money, etc. of other, higher profile, sports because the uni teams aren't competing nationally (women's rugby is because it's paired with men's football) and the college teams don't really have a profile at all, with most students only staying for two years.

There are some incredible players in the OCAA who shouldn't be ignored just because uni isn't for them, but there are also some in both leagues that are barely better than good high school players.


Wasn't ignoring OCAA as I had no clue of it. So let's add another 10 schools playing Rugby at the Collegiate level. Gives the Arrows 20 collegiate/university programs to draw from. Develop your scouting apparatus, scout the players, send camp invites for the various Academy levels. Then you run into the problem of getting them meaningful competition. Personally I don't see the need for a full on pure "academy" in the guise of what the European teams have considering it's really just a way for them to keep their salaries down. Guys want to be College Athletes in the US. If you the college game further professionalizes it's administration and training resources so that it can continue producing MLR ready talent then you just need to put a layer in between that forms quarterly and in the Summer.

Posts: 25
Joined: Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 20:38
National Flag:
IrelandIreland

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Rugga » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 17:45

Sorry this is a bit random but... There’s definitely no chance that league can become the more dominant code in Canada with the Wolfpack and the rugby league World Cup being held in 2025?

Online
Posts: 1375
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 19:10

Is there a Snowball's chance in hell?

There's over 100k members of Rugby Canada from youth to refs. There are maybe 1k people involved in league and they no grassroots work, and many of them also play Union. What have the Wolfpack done for youth programs, hell just for Ontario Rugby League the teams seemingly don't actually exist.

Posts: 25
Joined: Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 20:38
National Flag:
IrelandIreland

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Rugga » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 19:27

I’m sorry I just want Canada to become a tier 1 nation with pro teams and don’t want anything getting in the way. I’ve been brainwashed into wanting a global game by the 1014 rugby.

Online
Posts: 1375
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 19:45

Rugga wrote:I’m sorry I just want Canada to become a tier 1 nation with pro teams and don’t want anything getting in the way. I’ve been brainwashed into wanting a global game by the 1014 rugby.

Well if this stupid World League tournament kicks off the chances of US or Canada ever becoming T1 will be unpossible.

Posts: 25
Joined: Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 20:38
National Flag:
IrelandIreland

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Rugga » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 22:02

TheStroBro wrote:
Rugga wrote:I’m sorry I just want Canada to become a tier 1 nation with pro teams and don’t want anything getting in the way. I’ve been brainwashed into wanting a global game by the 1014 rugby.

Well if this stupid World League tournament kicks off the chances of US or Canada ever becoming T1 will be unpossible.


Never thought of it like that my main concern was ruining the World Cup.

Posts: 761
Joined: Thu, 01 May 2014, 11:25
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 23:17

I watched Quinn Ngawati play for Westshore RFC this weekend against Castaway Wanderers.  They lost a close match but you could tell Quinn had been playing in a professional environment as he looked like he was in a league of his own and made some gigantic hits.  The kid is absolutely massive for a 19 year old and was probably the biggest player on the field and definitely the most fit. He lined up at #12 beside Brock Staller and made some devastating tackles. Rugby Canada would be foolish not to approach him to get involved in the National Program, while he may not have cut it just yet for the Toronto Wolfpack, he is a professional calibre athlete with the size to play international rugby.

He is also mean on the field and would give provide some much needed grit to our backline.

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Superhans, welshdragon2000 and 22 guests