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Future RWC Hosts

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby gambass » Fri, 25 Aug 2017, 10:29

Figaro wrote:And a joint bid between Romania and Georgia isn't at all feasible or even logical - they aren't that similar culturally, they don't even border each other, nor is there a single other coutnry which borders both. You might as soon suggest that Scotland and Germany produce a joint bid.


Not necessarily an exemple to follow, but besides the Euro 2020 one off, major indoor sports (basketball, volleyball, handball) seem to move off the single country host thing. Some of these hosts making as mush sense than an romanian-georgian bid would (Italy and Bulgarian recent euro volley for instance: color of flags bid ?)

I guess that the italian bid was killed off in favor of the olympics bid... Assuming an RWC euro host in 2023, we could see the same italian circus with the 2031 RWC and the 2032 OG.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 25 Aug 2017, 11:29

gambass wrote:
Figaro wrote:And a joint bid between Romania and Georgia isn't at all feasible or even logical - they aren't that similar culturally, they don't even border each other, nor is there a single other coutnry which borders both. You might as soon suggest that Scotland and Germany produce a joint bid.


Not necessarily an exemple to follow, but besides the Euro 2020 one off, major indoor sports (basketball, volleyball, handball) seem to move off the single country host thing. Some of these hosts making as mush sense than an romanian-georgian bid would (Italy and Bulgarian recent euro volley for instance: color of flags bid ?)

I guess that the italian bid was killed off in favor of the olympics bid... Assuming an RWC euro host in 2023, we could see the same italian circus with the 2031 RWC and the 2032 OG.


Also Ice-hockey championship 2017 was played in Paris and Cologne. Those cities are 500km apart. Not sure if this was that smart, but at least the German stadium was outsold for nearly every game (and 18.700 fit in there) and it is seen as a success. They used AsterixObelix as their mascots (which was brilliant as those two are probably the most popular comic figures of all time in both Germany and France.

The Italian bid was simply killed of because the Olympic bid was killed off before. I never fully understood the correlation but the FIR saw one.

So why not?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 25 Aug 2017, 11:32

Second thought: for the growth of rugby, this could even be made mandatory. Every host is forced to give 4 games away to tier2 or tier3 nations. The risk of losing money is small and it does a lot for the growth of the sport worldwide. Lets face it, if the RWC 2015 had one game in Germany and not in Wales it wouldn't have made a difference in the surplus at all. With the draw so far in the future we would also know more than 2 years in advance which games would be good to draw a crowd in a tier2 country.

If it goes to a tier2 nation, they should give another tier2 nation two games (i.e. USA - Canada).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby danindech » Fri, 25 Aug 2017, 12:09

Does someone here also thinks Brazil could make the case and face Argentina for 2027?

I mean, of course Argentina has much more tradition and much more powerful team, but would it have the mean$ to do it? Brazil has the structure used for FIFA WC in 2014, that will be used again in 2019 for Copa América. So, being already up and running is a good argument. And since Brazil is also getting better at rugby everyday, I wonder about its potential in 10 years from now.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby victorsra » Fri, 25 Aug 2017, 12:55

I think it is impossible. Rugby doesnt generate money and audience enough here for this. 10 years is not time enough for that. And the Tupis would still be smashed by the T1 nations and this means most people and media would give a damn.
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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby gambass » Fri, 25 Aug 2017, 13:42

RugbyLiebe wrote:The Italian bid was simply killed of because the Olympic bid was killed off before. I never fully understood the correlation but the FIR saw one.

So why not?


Personally, I'd be very much in favor of, and think it could make wonders for the popularity of italian rugby. Having Italy as a strong market sounds as much as a priority than the most easy bet the world of rugby could make (IMHO, there is much more market share to win in Italy, than in any other european country)

Yet, the problem with Italy and the RWC seems to be a political one and the inability for the FIR to secure the proper government backups. I'm fearing we'll see the same problem the next time the question of an italian RWC will arise (most likely in 2031)

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby eal22 » Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 03:47

Italy should indeed be a priority for development. Italian rugby seems to have stagnated over the last ten years, not sure if this is because of the ineptness of the IRB, Italian rugby, or just simply that we have reached the ceiling of rugby development in Italy.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby jservuk » Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 14:33

gambass wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:The Italian bid was simply killed of because the Olympic bid was killed off before. I never fully understood the correlation but the FIR saw one.

So why not?


Personally, I'd be very much in favor of, and think it could make wonders for the popularity of italian rugby. Having Italy as a strong market sounds as much as a priority than the most easy bet the world of rugby could make (IMHO, there is much more market share to win in Italy, than in any other european country)

Yet, the problem with Italy and the RWC seems to be a political one and the inability for the FIR to secure the proper government backups. I'm fearing we'll see the same problem the next time the question of an italian RWC will arise (most likely in 2031)


The FIR could not raise the government backing for a RWC bid, and was hoping they could do off the back of an Olympics bid. When the mayoress of Rome threw out the Olympics bid (quite rightly) because it didn't make any economic sense, it hurt the FIR's case for the RWC. The lesson here is that the RWC is not, other than in the established markets, big enough to warrant government blank cheques.

I think the feeling within Italy is that many of their stadia are dated, and in need of upgrade or even rebuilds (Roma, Milan, Fiorentina to follows Juve's example). Italy was hoping for Euro 2016/20 as a catalyst for that investment. If the current crop of historic stadia in Italy are not good enough for Euros or FIFA, would they really suffice for RWC?

IF FIR needs these stadia upgrades to make the case for government backing of a RWC bid, then it probably needs Italy to win a Euros bid. I can't see this happening until 2028 as I think 2024 will most likely go to Spain. Assuming Italy get's that for Euro 2028, I think we will see a strong RWC bid by Italy for 2031.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby gambass » Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 21:48

jservuk wrote:If the current crop of historic stadia in Italy are not good enough for Euros or FIFA, would they really suffice for RWC?


They don't need any major upgrades. Just have a look at some of the stadiums, the Irish are bidding with, not the most modern stadiums around. WR is no UEFA or FIFA when it comes to rididulous stadiums recquirements. They'll be ok.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby Coloradoan » Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 21:51

gambass wrote:
jservuk wrote:If the current crop of historic stadia in Italy are not good enough for Euros or FIFA, would they really suffice for RWC?


They don't need any major upgrades. Just have a look at some of the stadiums, the Irish are bidding with, not the most modern stadiums around. WR is no UEFA or FIFA when it comes to rididulous stadiums recquirements. They'll be ok.


I went to 2 matches at Elland Road in the 2015 RWC. That stadium is straight out of the 70s.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 22:32

Euro 2024 in Spain? Only Germany and Turkey presented bids and since Spanish football union is in the middle of a huge corruption scandal I don't see it promoting any tournament in a long,long time.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 27 Aug 2017, 01:37

victorsra wrote:I think it is impossible. Rugby doesnt generate money and audience enough here for this. 10 years is not time enough for that. And the Tupis would still be smashed by the T1 nations and this means most people and media would give a damn.


What of a joint South American bid? Mosts games in Argentina, but maybe Uruguay, Brazil, and Chile get 2 games each.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 28 Aug 2017, 17:50

If Argentina hosts the Rugby World Cup, Uruguay would surely host every Teros match, and perhaps one or two more matches.

Chile is close to Mendoza, so it could be done. Porto Alegre is reasonably close, but of course it's much smaller than São Paulo.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 28 Aug 2017, 18:37

I don't see how you can think of multiple South American RWC hosts when South America hasn't even got a proper RWC spot of its own.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby victorsra » Mon, 28 Aug 2017, 19:51

Yes, a WC without Brazil or Chile makes it non-sense to have venues in those countries. It would have no appeal.

However, it would be possible to think about 1 match in São Paulo, for exemple, if we are talking about something big, like a playoff match (quarterfinal or semifinal or even a 3rd place match). Any average match woudn't be interesting and wouldn't produce any real positive impact. But of course this is the kind of match Argentina wouldn't give away.
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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby Thomas » Mon, 28 Aug 2017, 20:21

Does Argentina have the money for long term planning and building? let alone the bidding process. We are talking funding for the next 6 years or 10. If I was a forecaster I would say 2031 or 2035 that would give them 10 years of investment in the domestic game and in the region.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby Coloradoan » Mon, 28 Aug 2017, 22:41

Armchair Fan wrote:I don't see how you can think of multiple South American RWC hosts when South America hasn't even got a proper RWC spot of its own.


WR should definitely be targeting expansion to 24 teams by 2031, and frankly by 2027. That would certainly add a guaranteed S America spot, maybe even 2 by then.

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