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Future RWC Hosts

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sat, 13 Aug 2016, 09:56

Really good geographic spread and importantly most are not newcomers to rugby internationals. Outside of Roma, places like Genova, Firenze and Udine etc have hosted multiple games. Torino of course is the smaller public stadium where Italy played Scotland last year. Possibly only the southern venues haven't had international tests. I know the ABs played in Sicily once but I'm sure it was a different stadium.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 13 Aug 2016, 11:23

Posting this in here, thanks to victorsra for compiling the list in the other thread:

Milan – Stadio San Siro – 81k places
Rome – Stadio Olímpico – 70k
Naples – Stadio San Paolo – 60k
Bari – Stadio San Nicola – 58k
Firenze – Stadio Artemio Franchi – 47k
Bologna – Stadio Renato Dall’Ara – 38k
Palermo – Stadio Renzo Barbera – 37k
Genoa – Stadio Luigi Ferraris – 36k
Padova – Stadio Euganeo – 32k
Rome – Stadio Flaminio – 30k
Torino – Stadio Olimpico – 28k
Udine – Stadio Friuli – 25k

Assuming for the moment the 20 team format is kept here's how I would allocated the matches:

Milan - Final, 2 x SF, 1 x QF, 4 x Pool Games
Rome - 1 x QF, x 5 Pool Games
Naples - 1 x QF, 3 Pool Games
Bar - 1 x QF, 3 Pool Games
Firenze - 4 x Pool Games
Bologna - 3 x Pool Games
Palermo - 3 x Pool Games
Genoa - 3 x Pool Games
Padova - 4 x Pool Games
Rome (2) - 3 x Pool Games
Torino - 3 x Pool Games
Udine - 2 x Pool Games

= 2.4 million tickets

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby ihateblazers » Sat, 13 Aug 2016, 12:15

I think they would go with Stadio Olimpico for the final, it would give the tournament a bit more spotlight and legitimacy to have it in Rome.

Interesting they haven't gone with Juventus Stadium in Torino, i assume they want to avoid clashing with the football club and any problems that would arise there (Man U 2015).

Has there been any news on renovations for Stadio Flaminio? That would have to be sorted out, it could be turned into a national stadium of sorts for domestic cup matches with Olimipico still used for most clashes. If they can't then perhaps the new AS Roma stadium could be used.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 13 Aug 2016, 12:58

Juventus FC owns that stadium in Torino so it was probably never in the running in the first place.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby ihateblazers » Sun, 14 Aug 2016, 05:32

Well Juventus probably wouldn't mind extra revenue. It would be much better experience than the old stadium i would imagine and more seats to fill as well. But going for the other stadium is probably the smart choice to just avoid complications altogether..

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 14 Aug 2016, 08:59

I thought Stadio Olympico was being knocked down and rebuilt for Torino? Or are they having their own stadium built too?

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby victorsra » Sun, 14 Aug 2016, 20:41

I've just noticed that IRFU has a hotsite for its 2023 bid: http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland2023/venues/

I would bet that Ireland will propose 3 stadiums in Dublin (Croke Park, Aviva and RDS), 1 or 2 in Belfast (Kingspan and one soccer or GAA stadium), 1 in Limerick (Thomond), 1 in Cork (GAA), 1 in Galway (GAA) and 1 or 2 extra GAA stadiums in other cities, making it between 8 and 10 venues.
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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby tryman » Sun, 14 Aug 2016, 21:29

Yes 3 in Dublin (2 of which are rugby stadiums), 2 in Belfast (1 rugby stadium), Limerick (rugby stadium), then Cork, Kerry & Mayo (maybe) which are all GAA stadiums.

I really think the Italian bid is actually better than Ireland but given their large stadiums I wonder would they be able to fill them? In England they didn't sell all their tickets, people forget that at times. Plus tickets would be much cheaper in Italy than Ireland, World Rugby will be thinking about that. I think SA's basket case economy would put World Rugby off while France held the event in 2007.

All that said I'd love to see the World Cup in Italy in 2023 then in Argentina in 2027. Both would be good progression for the game.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 15 Aug 2016, 08:16

tryman wrote:Yes 3 in Dublin (2 of which are rugby stadiums), 2 in Belfast (1 rugby stadium), Limerick (rugby stadium), then Cork, Kerry & Mayo (maybe) which are all GAA stadiums.

I really think the Italian bid is actually better than Ireland but given their large stadiums I wonder would they be able to fill them? In England they didn't sell all their tickets, people forget that at times. Plus tickets would be much cheaper in Italy than Ireland, World Rugby will be thinking about that. I think SA's basket case economy would put World Rugby off while France held the event in 2007.

All that said I'd love to see the World Cup in Italy in 2023 then in Argentina in 2027. Both would be good progression for the game.


The distance Milano - Toulon is 440km. Toulon-Paris is 840km, if google maps is right ;-)

So basically it is really accessable for the rugby hotbeds in France. Also a lot of Commonwealth expats live in Switzerland, Germany and Austria.
The most important question are:

1. will you get enough British fans to Italy. Also there are way more hotel beds in Italy both on the budget and high class end, many things speak for Italy. Why not combine a beach holiday with some rugby. It is absolutely possible to do that in mid september in Italy. Not talking about the rich cultural background a country like Italy offers compared to Ireland (which is nice, too. But it falls behind if you think about the cultural background of Italy).

2.
What will the Italians do? I am really not sure, but if you want to make rugby a real global game, you have to take the opportunity to try to expand it. Italy is the established country with the most room for growth. Just by numbers inhabitants of ROI and NI = 6,4 Mio vs Italy = 60,6 Mio.
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Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby ihateblazers » Mon, 15 Aug 2016, 09:20

Also keep in mind the Irish hospitality industry will price gouge just like in New Zealand 2011, supply and demand in a small nation. Hotel rooms, even B&B's in Dublin will be crazy.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby dropkick » Mon, 15 Aug 2016, 11:58

ihateblazers wrote:Also keep in mind the Irish hospitality industry will price gouge just like in New Zealand 2011, supply and demand in a small nation. Hotel rooms, even B&B's in Dublin will be crazy.



Yeah they'll fleece the fans alright. Wouldn't surprise me if hotel prices go to €1000 per night for some matches. I don't think the government can do anything to freeze prices.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby beardy reiver » Tue, 16 Aug 2016, 12:22

tryman wrote:Yes 3 in Dublin (2 of which are rugby stadiums), 2 in Belfast (1 rugby stadium), Limerick (rugby stadium), then Cork, Kerry & Mayo (maybe) which are all GAA stadiums.

I really think the Italian bid is actually better than Ireland but given their large stadiums I wonder would they be able to fill them? In England they didn't sell all their tickets, people forget that at times. Plus tickets would be much cheaper in Italy than Ireland, World Rugby will be thinking about that. I think SA's basket case economy would put World Rugby off while France held the event in 2007.

All that said I'd love to see the World Cup in Italy in 2023 then in Argentina in 2027. Both would be good progression for the game.


Have to agree with Tryman here. Public transport in Ireland is an absolute nightmare. The link Dublin Belfast is fine but everything else is pretty slow. Getting around is so hard compared to Italy. I think that as travel to and around Italy is relatively simple from Europe (France and the UK likely to provide a lot of travelling support) the chances of filling stadia are healthy.
If they're good enough to play at world cups why aren't they good enough for the Sanzars in between?

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Tue, 16 Aug 2016, 12:46

I would have liked Italian and Irish bids to include fixtures at neighbouring or comparatively close by rugby nations that couldn't host in their own and were likely to qualify (e.g. Scotland, Wales, Romania and possibly Spain).

When you think about the distances travelled for rugby in say Australia or SA travelling between these European countries would not have been an issue and its have been a great opportunity to showcase the top tournament in competitive environments with decent stadia. It might also have helped the respective bids gather support.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby JamesWales » Tue, 16 Aug 2016, 13:11

I agree with the above. In fact, I think World Rugby should be entirely neutral on joint hosts, or junior partners.

I think in the early days the world cup was spread too thin, and for too long it seemed to be hosted in Ireland, France, Scotland, England and Wales or slight variations therein.

However, sharing a world cup between two countries allows for the interest to spread, while ensuring that each host is significant itself.

In this case, I'd welcome Switzerland as a junior partner. Why not have a couple of games in Zurich or Geneva to try and drum up growth for rugby there too?

Overall, even though Ireland is closer for me, I'd love to see a RWC in Italy, and it would be just the shot in the arm the nation needs.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 16 Aug 2016, 14:51

I am not so sure about the co-hosting. I do think this is important for small countries, but Italy?

I mean I would love to see one or two games in Switzerland (Zurich = 281km form Milano, Geneve = 319km) , Austria (Vienna = 861km from Milano) or even Munich (494km).

But on the other hand: why should you go to another country at all, when you have no games i.e. in Napoli, a city within the region Campania, who has a population size close to the numbers of the combined Ireland?

It is not comparable to distances in Australia or SA for one single reason. Population density. If you drive for one hour with your car you probably drive through regions were more people live, than you can fly over, if you fly with an airplane for one hour in Oz.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 16 Aug 2016, 17:37

Agree, co-hosting between, say, Belgium and Holland or Denmark and Sweden is one thing. Even Spain using Lisbon or Oporto. But randomly taking on German speaking cities or Spanish cities to an Italian world cup wouldn't work for me. Don't forget the crowd failures in Scotland and Cardiff in the 2007 RWC; part of the reason was that they didn't feel part of the RWC and, really, that was because they weren't. Geneva hosting a French RWC game makes a lot more sense if we want to go down that hypothetical route.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 16 Aug 2016, 23:37

I'm against multiple countries hosting the tournament going forward unless there's a 50/50 joint bid from two nations. A joint Spain/Portugal or USA/Canada bid where games are shared more or less equally I'm perfectly ok with, but if we're talking about 8 or 9 stadiums being used in one nation and 1 or 2 in another I'm totally against it. England 2015 will be the last time I feel stadiums outside the host nation will be used, and the only reason the stadium in Wales was used was because Old Trafford decided it no longer wanted to be part of the tournament. I believe Old Trafford was in line for 3 or 4 pool games and 2 quarter finals originally.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby beardy reiver » Wed, 17 Aug 2016, 09:20

thatrugbyguy wrote:I'm against multiple countries hosting the tournament going forward unless there's a 50/50 joint bid from two nations. A joint Spain/Portugal or USA/Canada bid where games are shared more or less equally I'm perfectly ok with, but if we're talking about 8 or 9 stadiums being used in one nation and 1 or 2 in another I'm totally against it. England 2015 will be the last time I feel stadiums outside the host nation will be used, and the only reason the stadium in Wales was used was because Old Trafford decided it no longer wanted to be part of the tournament. I believe Old Trafford was in line for 3 or 4 pool games and 2 quarter finals originally.


The multiple host thing is dependent on who and where you're talking about. There are dozens of countries that have the potential to host a "bit of the world cup" but aren't anywhere near capable of hosting on their own. The 2007 example in Scotland is fair but the context was that we were only filling murrayfield at the time when we played England, our numpty coach had decided to field a B team against NZ...

Places like Uruguay, Spain and Namibia are unlikely to ever be able to host a world cup. There could be the chance for them to piggy back on a bigger countries world cup though. The chance for Scotland to host anything is probably gone too as a stand alone bid (less important than the other teams I mention).
If they're good enough to play at world cups why aren't they good enough for the Sanzars in between?

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby Figaro » Wed, 17 Aug 2016, 11:31

beardy reiver wrote:
The multiple host thing is dependent on who and where you're talking about. There are dozens of countries that have the potential to host a "bit of the world cup" but aren't anywhere near capable of hosting on their own. The 2007 example in Scotland is fair but the context was that we were only filling murrayfield at the time when we played England, our numpty coach had decided to field a B team against NZ...

Places like Uruguay, Spain and Namibia are unlikely to ever be able to host a world cup. There could be the chance for them to piggy back on a bigger countries world cup though. The chance for Scotland to host anything is probably gone too as a stand alone bid (less important than the other teams I mention).


I think having host cities outside the host nation like has happened repeatedly with the RWC undermines the whole concept of a host nation. There was no legitimate reason for the Millenium Stadium to get matches in 2015 (even if purely selfishly I'm glad as it meant I got to go to a game); even if Old Trafford dropped out last minute there were other big stadia in England that could have been drafted in instead.

That said I've no problem with joint bids from nearby nations, if that enables small nations to host which would otherwise be unable to, e.g. Scotland/Wales, for which you would have

Millenium 74k
Murrayfield 67k
Celtic Park 60k
Hampden 51k
Ibrox 50k
Cardiff City Stadium 33k
Liberty Stadium ~30k (after mooted expansion)
New Aberdeen Stadium 20-30k
New Dundee Stadium 20-30k
(Various venues ~15-20k).

You could have temporary seating to expand some of these, or even permanently expand some of them. I think the Scarlets' ground in Llanelli is designed to be expandable to 20k (from its current 14k) within the walls and roof of the existing structure, and if they actually got round to the redevelopment of Rodney Parade you'd have a fourth Welsh location, make it five with the addition of one or both of the Racecourse and Eirias Park in the North (would need to expand the latter).

Temporary seating seems to have been a success in Euro 2008 and various Olympics; I'm surprised it isn't considered more often for hosting Rugby/Football world cups.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby victorsra » Wed, 17 Aug 2016, 21:53

I agree that World cups should be hosted by just 1 country or equally split between two countries (although I would find acceptable an eventual "Celtic World Cup" split between Ireland, Wales and Scotland). 2007 matches in Wales and Scotland were a ridiculous idea, just like Wales in 2015, because Wales and Scotland are strong enough to follow Ireland and bid to host a World Cup.

However I see that Tier2-3 could benefit from the idea to receive one or two venues from a major WC host. in 2011 if Samoa of Fiji had one venue I would think it a great move. If Argentina gives a venue to Uruguay, Chile, Paraguai and/or Brazil in a future WC there it would be great too. In the case of Italy they could have benefited Spain or Romania wth the same concept. My problem is with T1 nations exchanging venues politicaly.
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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby jservuk » Wed, 17 Aug 2016, 23:46

Perhaps for the 50th anniversary tournament in 2037 they could do what Euro 2020 has done and have it shared across a continent. T2/3 nations could bid for group matches that involve them. That would be better than giving a less developed market the whole thing. Realistically the dream of having a RWC in places like Germany, Brazil, Spain are unlikely to become a reality within a couple of decades.

The reality is that WR/IRB/RFU etc are highly political in their thinking, so whatever they decide will not make entirely logical sense.

These two point together lead me to think that we can expect a lot of RWC matches in the established countries.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby RiffRaff » Thu, 18 Aug 2016, 00:37

jservuk wrote:Perhaps for the 50th anniversary tournament in 2037 they could do what Euro 2020 has done and have it shared across a continent. T2/3 nations could bid for group matches that involve them. That would be better than giving a less developed market the whole thing. Realistically the dream of having a RWC in places like Germany, Brazil, Spain are unlikely to become a reality within a couple of decades.

The reality is that WR/IRB/RFU etc are highly political in their thinking, so whatever they decide will not make entirely logical sense.

These two point together lead me to think that we can expect a lot of RWC matches in the established countries.


I like the idea of each pool in a different country and then the knockout round in yet another, especially in a major anniversary year. It will never happen, but imagine the extreme scenario of a true World Cup by putting pool A in New Zealand, pool B in South Africa, pool C in Australia, and pool D in France then playing the knockout matches in England.

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby victorsra » Thu, 18 Aug 2016, 01:51

Yep! But there won't be a RWC in 2037. It is 2035 and 2039...

Now I just want:

2023 - Italy
2027 - Argentina
2031 - USA
2035 - South Africa

(I have writen about Argentina 2027 some time ago as I see they should receive it in 2031, because Argentina is risking to spend more money hosting Rugby WC before Football WC, as they want the FIFA tournament in 2030... but with Pichot and Macri behind it let's go for 2027...)
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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby Hernan14 » Sun, 21 Aug 2016, 05:00

victorsra wrote:(I have writen about Argentina 2027 some time ago as I see they should receive it in 2031, because Argentina is risking to spend more money hosting Rugby WC before Football WC, as they want the FIFA tournament in 2030... but with Pichot and Macri behind it let's go for 2027...)


Considering the economic disaster that Macri completed in just eight months, I doubt we can organize anything in the 2027 or in 2031 or ever :thumbdown:

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Re: Future RWC Hosts

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 22 Aug 2016, 12:44

Hernan14 wrote:
victorsra wrote:(I have writen about Argentina 2027 some time ago as I see they should receive it in 2031, because Argentina is risking to spend more money hosting Rugby WC before Football WC, as they want the FIFA tournament in 2030... but with Pichot and Macri behind it let's go for 2027...)


Considering the economic disaster that Macri completed in just eight months, I doubt we can organize anything in the 2027 or in 2031 or ever :thumbdown:


What happened/ did he do?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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