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New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 10:17

It's possible it's the eligibility issue that's taking the longest to resolve. The ESP v BEL match is pretty cut and dry in my opinion, but it took them several months to sort out the Tahiti eligibility issue. They've got to fix a bigger mess in a shorter period of time. That Portugal qualifier is fast approaching and we need to know who they will be playing.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Sick » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 10:21

YamahaKiwi wrote:WR attitude is pi**ing me off. On their site, social media etc absolutely nothing about this. You would not know there is a big crisis in RWC qualifying going on. Everything in WR lala-land is just perfect! The sky is blue and the sun is shining. They should be being open, acknowledging there is an issue and they are investigating. They don't have to give all the details, just some acknowledgment of the situation. Instead they just closed the iron gates to fortress Dublin...and for those wondering what is going on, nothing.

There has been a real lack of leadership on tbis issue from them. After the SPA-BEL game, they should've taken control instead of passing the ball back to RE. It's called "stepping up" and they didn't.



It's easy for me. If you step up, that means taking responsability. They don't want responsability.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Raven » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 10:27

YamahaKiwi wrote:WR attitude is pi**ing me off. On their site, social media etc absolutely nothing about this. You would not know there is a big crisis in RWC qualifying going on. Everything in WR lala-land is just perfect! The sky is blue and the sun is shining. They should be being open, acknowledging there is an issue and they are investigating. They don't have to give all the details, just some acknowledgment of the situation. Instead they just closed the iron gates to fortress Dublin...and for those wondering what is going on, nothing.

There has been a real lack of leadership on tbis issue from them. After the SPA-BEL game, they should've taken control instead of passing the ball back to RE. It's called "stepping up" and they didn't.


Well... if you delegate something and then when there´s a problem you just take over as a bully it wouldn´t look great either. RE should have acted accordingly as at the end of the day is their fuck up with their set rules + being inoperative, I think WR went through the normal procedures.

Having said this, NOW that WR IS in control of the situation due to the lack of answers (and perhaps clarity) on behalf of RE, and the exposure this has they should try to come up with answers a bit faster.

Let´s be honest we (or at least I) didn´t see the Tahiti disqualification coming, nor had I heard about their ineligible players (nor did I read about it in this forum before the WR statement came out) But now we are all anxious to know what the hell is going to happen, plus there´s so much at stake and so many involved that it´s hard to keep the nerved down.

Personally, all this wait makes me think things will be swept under the carpet...; Spain will have some banned players due to the Brussels quarrel, Vlad probably won´t ref high caliber games again, the fans will hear the promise that "this won´t happen again" and WR will keep a closer eye in ALL their Qualy tournaments / comps and not just for communication purposes. Ultimately monetary fines to the Unions for the use of ineligible players, meaning that Romania is in the clear for the RWC and Spain will go through repechage and Germany will play Portugal as it stands now.

I have no inside intel to say this is the case, and I can be EXTREMELY wrong... but it´s like thinking something "should have been done" with Joubert after the SCO v AUS Semifinal in Twickers.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Sick » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 10:35

The reason why it takes long is because they don't have set protocols for problems like this.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Raven » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 10:40

Sick wrote:The reason why it takes long is because they don't have set protocols for problems like this.


Maybe.

They could however take every case individually to come with their ultimate result and answer to the various issues.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby amz » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 10:42

Sick wrote:The reason why it takes long is because they don't have set protocols for problems like this.


There are some regulations which can be applied but I think they'll have a "political" approach as well, something along the lines pointed by Raven.

Raven wrote:
Maybe.

They could however take every case individually to come with their ultimate result and answer to the various issues.


I think they are still at information gathering part and during Easter nobody did nothing so I think this delay is normal.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 11:01

Raven wrote:Let´s be honest we (or at least I) didn´t see the Tahiti disqualification coming, nor had I heard about their ineligible players (nor did I read about it in this forum before the WR statement came out)


Actually we were talking about this since at least December 2017. But yeah that's just one post and easy to miss.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1341&p=73115&hilit=tahiti#p73115
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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby BobFish » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 11:45

Question: can someone confirm whether in 2007 South Africa A was the same team as Emerging Springboks or a different team?

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby amz » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 11:50

BobFish wrote:Question: can someone confirm whether in 2007 South Africa A was the same team as Emerging Springboks or a different team?


So when you have a dilemmas on your forums and nobody thought to use google you seek wisdom here?

https://www.worldrugby.org/regulations/ ... ative-team

No, South Africa A and Emerging Springboks were't the same teams in 2007. Barritt wasn't captured by SA.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby BobFish » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 11:52

amz wrote:
BobFish wrote:Question: can someone confirm whether in 2007 South Africa A was the same team as Emerging Springboks or a different team?


So when you have a dilemmas on your forums and nobody thought to use google you seek wisdom here?

https://www.worldrugby.org/regulations/ ... ative-team

No, South Africa A and Emerging Springboks were't the same teams in 2007.


Hmmm.. I do not think that link answer the question. Is your answer based on your knowledge that they were separate teams or just based on the link referring to Emerging Springboks in 2011 and 2012?

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby amz » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 12:07

What matters is which side is declared in the respective year by the Union as next rep team

Emerging Boks or SA U21 were not nominated by Saffas hence the players were not tied.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby BobFish » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 12:30

amz wrote:What matters is which side is declared in the respective year by the Union as next rep team

Emerging Boks or SA U21 were not nominated by Saffas hence the players were not tied.


Ok, thank you. I understand that. My question was whether Emerging Boks was a different name for South Africa A (same as England Saxons is just a different name to England A, but it is the same team).

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby victorsra » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 13:15

I do not know if this is the right interpretation. But I believe this might be the route that the FER took to clear Belie with WR before calling him up. It is obvious that his situation was not clear and that's why they took over a year and a half to get him selected

It isn't because of Shingler's case...
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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 14:14

Just on Rudoy, when did he last play for Kazakstan and when did he start for Russia? It was well documented at the time so I'm sure he did the full stand down period but someone mentioned it on twitter and I couldn't give the dates.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby 4N » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 15:20

sk 88 wrote:Just on Rudoy, when did he last play for Kazakstan and when did he start for Russia? It was well documented at the time so I'm sure he did the full stand down period but someone mentioned it on twitter and I couldn't give the dates.


2010 vs Uruguay in RWC 2011 repechage. First appearance for Russia 7s in 2015.

After the 2002 scandal, Russia probably know the eligibility rules better than anyone.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 15:40

4N wrote:
sk 88 wrote:Just on Rudoy, when did he last play for Kazakstan and when did he start for Russia? It was well documented at the time so I'm sure he did the full stand down period but someone mentioned it on twitter and I couldn't give the dates.


2010 vs Uruguay in RWC 2011 repechage. First appearance for Russia 7s in 2015.

After the 2002 scandal, Russia probably know the eligibility rules better than anyone.


Yep. Rudoi would have qualified under the 3-year standdown period anyway, but it was only 18 months for initial introduction for Rio.
The clutching at straws with him is very desperate, although I understand why other Unions would.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Raven » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 15:59

Zhenya_Zima wrote:The clutching at straws with him is very desperate, although I understand why other Unions would.


It´s a very last resource and a low one considering the ones making the claims aren´t even able to do their own research to select their eligible players...

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby 4N » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 16:02

Raven wrote:It´s a very last resource and a low one considering the ones making the claims aren´t even able to do their own research to select their eligible players...


Exactly.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby scrum » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 17:09

amz wrote:What matters is which side is declared in the respective year by the Union as next rep team

Emerging Boks or SA U21 were not nominated by Saffas hence the players were not tied.



Are you sure??? is not the same team? There was South Africa A That year?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_A ... union_team

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby amz » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 18:14

scrum wrote:
amz wrote:What matters is which side is declared in the respective year by the Union as next rep team

Emerging Boks or SA U21 were not nominated by Saffas hence the players were not tied.



Are you sure??? is not the same team? There was South Africa A That year?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_A ... union_team


Binding documents are here, not on wiki

https://www.worldrugby.org/regulations/ ... am?lang=en

about Rudoy, when he was last time playing? are we sure he didn't play for 2015 RWC qualification as well?

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby 4N » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 18:23

amz wrote:about Rudoy, when he was last time playing? are we sure he didn't play for 2015 RWC qualification as well?


100% sure. Rudoy and Maxim Lifontov both left Kazakhstan after they had Union issues post-2011. Similar to what Moldova are going through now (I actually wouldn't be surprised if one or two of their stars stand down and play for Russia eventually..).

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby amz » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 18:34

I don't know, didn't look too much into it but it is a mention on wiki he played for Kazakhstan in 2015 Quali as well so that's why I think is a legitimate question although wiki is not a reliable source. I couldn't find on web info about Kazakh lineup so I think is a legitimate question and WR should clear him as they have all the gamesheets.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 20:30

amz wrote:I don't know, didn't look too much into it but it is a mention on wiki he played for Kazakhstan in 2015 Quali as well so that's why I think is a legitimate question although wiki is not a reliable source. I couldn't find on web info about Kazakh lineup so I think is a legitimate question and WR should clear him as they have all the gamesheets.


His last game for Kazakhstan was the URU repechage game in 2010.

Even if that was not the case, he could’ve played until December 2013 (which would include ALL 3 of Kazakhstan’s shambles of a RWC2015 qualifying campaign matches), and still be ok to jump. (In other words, even if he did play EVERY KAZ RWC2015 qualifier - he did NOT play one - he’d STILL be ok)

So, checks nails, next question. (Sorry AMZ, just enjoying unusual situation of RUS sport being unquestionably in the right.)

4N wrote:
amz wrote:about Rudoy, when he was last time playing? are we sure he didn't play for 2015 RWC qualification as well?


100% sure. Rudoy and Maxim Lifontov both left Kazakhstan after they had Union issues post-2011. Similar to what Moldova are going through now (I actually wouldn't be surprised if one or two of their stars stand down and play for Russia eventually..).


I’d kill to watch Vadim play Olympic Q Sevens! Although a team with him, his brother, Prepilitsa and Gargalic might actually break the WR for heaviest 7s team ever. Without 3 other players.

Edit: Mahu. We might actually give Georgia more than 60 mins with those enforcements,. Where do I sign up?!

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 05 Apr 2018, 07:36

I remember Prepelita playing for Steaua few years ago and few kilos lighter. I saw his potential but i never thinked that he can grow so much.
Mahu could be a great lock but he is lazy.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby fullbackace » Thu, 05 Apr 2018, 07:52

Bogdan_DC wrote:I remember Prepelita playing for Steaua few years ago and few kilos lighter. I saw his potential but i never thinked that he can grow so much.
Mahu could be a great lock but he is lazy.

eh I always cringe a bit when people call locks "lazy".. It's probably in top 10 of the worst positions in any sport. They do all the dirty hard work and everyone else gets the star plays and headlines. If i were a lock and people complained about my work rate I'd tell them to fuck off and do it themselve, because in reality "lazy lock" probably still works more than most of the other players on the field. :D
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