Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 05 Apr 2018, 08:51

fullbackace wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:I remember Prepelita playing for Steaua few years ago and few kilos lighter. I saw his potential but i never thinked that he can grow so much.
Mahu could be a great lock but he is lazy.

eh I always cringe a bit when people call locks "lazy".. It's probably in top 10 of the worst positions in any sport. They do all the dirty hard work and everyone else gets the star plays and headlines. If i were a lock and people complained about my work rate I'd tell them to fuck off and do it themselve, because in reality "lazy lock" probably still works more than most of the other players on the field. :D

I agree and believe me i know how it is because i was playing lock. Actually we are a family of locks, 4 guys from my family where playing this position :).
About Mahu i keep an eye on him from the first time he arrived in Romania few years ago.He is having a great body & speed for this position (2.05m and 125 kg!). But he is just showing glimpses of his potential, i don't remember a full match when he performed. He is a good player but he could be great.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Thu, 05 Apr 2018, 11:02

https://rugger.info/news/19443

WR confirmed receipt of RUS complaint re Faka ROM
Process is underway
No deadline indicated to RUS

So, probably there will NOT be ANY decision this week

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby BigG » Thu, 05 Apr 2018, 11:30

Looks Spain vs Portugal, which previously was scheduled for coming days, is postponed.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Tobar » Thu, 05 Apr 2018, 13:32

Wasn’t it scheduled for yesterday?

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 06 Apr 2018, 04:24

Conflicting reports about when the match was/is suppose to be.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Canalina » Sat, 07 Apr 2018, 13:27

Maybe you have already mentioned this: more or less a year ago a lithuanian player based in Italy (Tveraga) wore the Lithuanian jersey in a REC match despite having played years before with Italy U20. When his past was discovered the player was disqualified for some weeks or some months but, as far as I know, the result of the game was not changed

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Gen Santa » Sat, 07 Apr 2018, 14:32

Canalina wrote:Maybe you have already mentioned this: more or less a year ago a lithuanian player based in Italy (Tveraga) wore the Lithuanian jersey in a REC match despite having played years before with Italy U20. When his past was discovered the player was disqualified for some weeks or some months but, as far as I know, the result of the game was not changed


odd, bolivia used ineligible player for conmebol qualifiers last year and were punished (3-0 victories to victim teams)

but wow... in these smaller rugby nations the sport of rugby really is the bushman sport... in fact i think the nicaragua rugby union is just a bunch of mates with their beers and empanadas who watch rugby together...

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Canalina » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 08:16

A check on 2017 Rugby Europe competitions confirms that the result of the matches where Lithuania fielded Tveraga, subsequently disqualified because he had not the requirements to play those games, remained untouched. Tveraga played vs Czech Rep., Luxembourg and Sweden in Conference 1 North. The player was punished, the team not.
Romania, Spain and Belgium's lawyers could use this precedent to protect their results

http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions/ ... mpionships

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 09:08

So a similar case to Bellie are Mathew Jarvis and James Loxton. Both were Wales U-20s and went to play in Ireland for Connacht.

According to this post on the connacht forum (quoting the player himself on twitter) because they were NOT told they were going to be captured (but Taulupe Faletau was) they remained eligible for Ireland.

http://www.connachtclan.com/clan-forum/ ... mitstart=0

As with Bellie this was prior to Shingler and the whole U-20s thing becoming a bit more formal with declarations etc.

Personally I think Bellie will be ruled eligible.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby armchair_expert » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 09:28

Jarvis and Loxton never played vs another NSNRT in 2009 and 2010
Shingler did play vs another NSNRT (France U20) in 2011

is there a full decision on Tveraga available anywhere? I couldn't find it on the WR website

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Canalina » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 10:00

There's a communicate by Italian Federation's jury, see the link dated 12 January 2018

http://www.federugby.it/index.php?optio ... Itemid=655

Google translation
PRESS RELEASE OF THE SANCTIONS UNDERGOING INTERNATIONAL ORGANS OF JUSTICE
- MANTVJDAS TVERAGA, militant in the Italian Serie A Championship and registered with the company ASD Rugby Lyons;
the National Sports Judge, received today by the FIR Bureau, the Authority's decision
Judge of the World Rugby signed by the President of the Disciplinary Commission Christopher Quinlan, with whom the
player Mantvjdas Tveraga for having played international matches with the Lithuanian national team "Rep. Czech v Lithuania "in
dated 12/11/2016, "Lithuania v Luxembourg" on 22/04/2017 and "Sweden v Lithuania" on 06/05/2017, violating the
articles 8 and 18 of the World Rugby Rules and paragraph 31 of the Regulations of the Lithuanian Rugby Federation,
was sanctioned with the disqualification of eight days, from January 14, 2018 to April 8, 2018 inclusive.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 10:54

So what now to expect from VERY SAME guy -- Christopher Quinlan ?

Just banning of Faka for X months?

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby 4N » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 13:53

armchair_expert wrote:Jarvis and Loxton never played vs another NSNRT in 2009 and 2010
Shingler did play vs another NSNRT (France U20) in 2011


is there a full decision on Tveraga available anywhere? I couldn't find it on the WR website


Correct.

I was the one who first pointed out Tveraga was ineligible for Lithuania btw. Rugby Europe don't know anything about eligibility laws, it's embarrassing. And WR don't seem to care unless it impacts the RWC.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Gen Santa » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 15:48

Canalina wrote:A check on 2017 Rugby Europe competitions confirms that the result of the matches where Lithuania fielded Tveraga, subsequently disqualified because he had not the requirements to play those games, remained untouched. Tveraga played vs Czech Rep., Luxembourg and Sweden in Conference 1 North. The player was punished, the team not.
Romania, Spain and Belgium's lawyers could use this precedent to protect their results

http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions/ ... mpionships


interesting, so perhaps nothing might change at all, unless world rugby find reasonable suspicion to say romanian ref was not fair to spanish players (victorsa pointed out in other thread that perhaps there were union politics, who knows), which i think world rugby will say that there must be a relay (personal assumption)

but remember this was rugby europe, not world rugby. world rugby can say "but rugby europe, your other ruling was wrong, and now you must follow our rules". it makes sense, especially if wr want to protect rugbys "integrity"... which i think they will... maybe rugby europe will be purged after all of this, hmm...

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Gen Santa » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 15:49

4N wrote:
armchair_expert wrote:Jarvis and Loxton never played vs another NSNRT in 2009 and 2010
Shingler did play vs another NSNRT (France U20) in 2011


is there a full decision on Tveraga available anywhere? I couldn't find it on the WR website


Correct.

I was the one who first pointed out Tveraga was ineligible for Lithuania btw. Rugby Europe don't know anything about eligibility laws, it's embarrassing. And WR don't seem to care unless it impacts the RWC.


which is why i think world rugby will tell rugby europe to feck off and not care about their previous decisions, world rugby seems very angry at rugby europe's incompetence

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby evil santa » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 20:50

sk 88 wrote:So a similar case to Bellie are Mathew Jarvis and James Loxton. Both were Wales U-20s and went to play in Ireland for Connacht.

According to this post on the connacht forum (quoting the player himself on twitter) because they were NOT told they were going to be captured (but Taulupe Faletau was) they remained eligible for Ireland.

http://www.connachtclan.com/clan-forum/ ... mitstart=0

As with Bellie this was prior to Shingler and the whole U-20s thing becoming a bit more formal with declarations etc.

Personally I think Bellie will be ruled eligible.

As I already noted - in 2008 there was no such requirement to clarify to a player that he would become ineligible for other Unions in Regulation 8.
So, Belie may be ruled eligible, but WR were to clear this question earlier. I think, WR have to put all players profiles they were questioned about at their site, with all information available, if no one complaints in e.g. 1 year time, then no objections should be accepted later, until some really new data found.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby victorsra » Tue, 17 Apr 2018, 18:38

I really thought they would release this just AFTER the judgement of the elegibility cases... but there you are, 5 Spanish players suspended:

http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/decision-rugb ... -committee

Guillaume ROUET (n°9): physical abuse of a Match Official and verbal abuse: 36 weeks
Sébastien ROUET (n°20): physical abuse of a Match Official and verbal abuse: 43 weeks
Pierre BARTHERE (n°6): threatening actions/words at a Match Official: 14 weeks
Lucas GUILLAUME (n°7): threatening actions/words at a Match Official: 14 weeks
Mathieu BELIE (n°10): threatening actions/words at a Match Official: 14 weeks
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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby DragonMike » Tue, 17 Apr 2018, 18:44

Naja, respect the ref....

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Thomas » Tue, 17 Apr 2018, 20:56

Good, took to long but finally happened.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Tue, 17 Apr 2018, 21:46

Think Barthere and les Rouets (assuming Seb was the one in the stadium jacket) in particular got off VERY lightly and can breathe sighs of relief.
They won't be though, they'll be appealing for sure.
In French, obviously. Probably gesticulating wildly and feeling fantastically wronged and launching god knows how many ridiculous hashtags.

Will be VERY interesting to hear what the ruling into the investigation against the FER is. At its worst, RE could level very, very heavy sanctions (i.e. points or DQs) for bringing game into disrepute, but the sanctions above suggest they're going down the WR-appeasing route of "we f@*ked up, too. And we know you have a huge hard-on for Spain."

I've said before, I personally think FER's [social] media reaction was disgraceful (to me, and again, I believe Vlad should not have had that match, to be clear) and also that if there is one thing RE hates more than anything else, it is (the totally true) pointing out that they're (more than a little) bit crap.

Curiouser and curiouser...

And still horrible that it's happening at all.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Canalina » Tue, 17 Apr 2018, 22:17

The "Tveraga case" was mentioned also in the World Rugby explication of the punishment against Tahiti
https://www.tntv.pf/attachment/987742/
Paragraph 23, google translation: About Federation's involvement, Regulation 2.1.2 states that any Federation is responsible for ensuring compliance with all Game Regulations. As a result, it is the responsibility of each Federation to insure all Players that it selects are eligible in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 8, which, as stipulated, constitutes an offense of strict liability. Thus, as the Regulations clearly state, it is not necessary to show fault or intent on the part of the Federation. Neither, as indicated by the Legal Officer (Christopher Quinlan QC) in the case of the Lithuanian Rugby Federation and Mantvydas Tveraga (decision dated 8 December 2017), an "inadvertence and / or misunderstanding of the regulation or facts can not serve as a defense".

This is contradictory, at least so it seems to me, because they say that inadvertence can't be an excuse for a Federation but they didn't punish Lithuania.

About the Spanish players punished, the length of the suspension is a little short to me too but, ok, World Rugby sent anyway the right message. After all this chaos I feared that the players were going to escape any sanction.
I noted just now that all the five suspended players have French name and surname, this doesn't sound great

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Tue, 17 Apr 2018, 23:33

E1 :)

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby qwerty » Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 00:52

Zhenya_Zima wrote:E1 :)


What are you referring to?

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 01:00

Some of those Spanish players should consider themselves very, very lucky with those suspensions. I was expecting 12 months bans for some of them.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/Player eligibility / qualy' th

Postby carbonero » Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 01:37

Zhenya_Zima wrote:E1 :)

Europe 1?

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