Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 16 May 2018, 09:37

GeoRugby wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:With captain of the Oaks, bursting against FRR on social media, we can expect anything. Including a strike from our players or things like that. And this is just the beginning, i hear even more worrying rumors. One time Petrache was right: this decision will be catastrophic for our rugby.


I cant blame him. They bust their asses on the field and get this. There is a history of conflict between the players and FRR and if you go by it, it wont be good for Romanian rugby at all.

The worst thing is that i don't know who will be better than infamous Petrache?! The guy is a footballer type , arrogant, big mouth etc but at least he cares about rugby and had some very valuable ideas. Very dark times ahead...

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 16 May 2018, 09:56

thatrugbyguy wrote:
Gen Santa wrote:
i dont disagree, in fact spain have an argument for injustice because it seems the anglos at world rugby didnt understand their rules, did they?

romania on the other hand suffered at the incompetence of tonga's rugby board... but if they had doubts, why not avoid using said player?

this whole thing is pandora's box...


You would think a player database would already have existed. I understand we are talking a lot of players but pay someone to do the bloody for crying out loud. WR makes hundreds of million of dollars every World Cup and they can't afford to pay someone to create a player database than can be accessed to all unions globally? It's simple, the union provides the lists of players tied to their nation through senior XV's and 7's teams, they email it to World Rugby, someone at World Rugby puts into a system that everyone can access. Done.


Its even simpler than that.

You can have an open database that any recognised union can update with players they have captured. For foreign born players, (all foreign born players), you can have a separate database with how the person is qualified (mother, father, granny, residency etc) and some supporting documents. Anyone could access these to read, with only the documents being secured for World Rugby officials only.

Its dead easy and tonnes of businesses operate things like this.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 16 May 2018, 10:02

sk 88 wrote:
Its even simpler than that.

You can have an open database that any recognised union can update with players they have captured. For foreign born players, (all foreign born players), you can have a separate database with how the person is qualified (mother, father, granny, residency etc) and some supporting documents. Anyone could access these to read, with only the documents being secured for World Rugby officials only.

Its dead easy and tonnes of businesses operate things like this.


I like the idea, but it is not as simple as you state. In the EU just this month a new data protection law comes into place and I am quite sure, that you can't just save private data like anyones grandmother's birth dates and birthplace open for everyone to see them.
Not a single business I know operates like this. Especially as you want everyone to give all the asked data.

But I think such a data base by World Rugby is possible - just not one open to everyone.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby Gorbeh » Wed, 16 May 2018, 10:28

There could be an interface, that the games played and the nation which captured the corresponding player is displayed open for everyone, without information of birthplace, date of birth etc. The necessary information for clearing purposses (e.g. birth certificates etc) must be stored somewhere else.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 16 May 2018, 10:29

RugbyLiebe wrote:I like the idea, but it is not as simple as you state. In the EU just this month a new data protection law comes into place and I am quite sure, that you can't just save private data like anyones grandmother's birth dates and birthplace open for everyone to see them.
Not a single business I know operates like this. Especially as you want everyone to give all the asked data.

But I think such a data base by World Rugby is possible - just not one open to everyone.


What's to protect? We don't need credit card numbers or personal home addresses here, we just need a database that says 'Player-X is eligible for Nation-X', one that can be updated by each union.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby Figaro » Wed, 16 May 2018, 10:32

RugbyLiebe wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
Its even simpler than that.

You can have an open database that any recognised union can update with players they have captured. For foreign born players, (all foreign born players), you can have a separate database with how the person is qualified (mother, father, granny, residency etc) and some supporting documents. Anyone could access these to read, with only the documents being secured for World Rugby officials only.

Its dead easy and tonnes of businesses operate things like this.


I like the idea, but it is not as simple as you state. In the EU just this month a new data protection law comes into place and I am quite sure, that you can't just save private data like anyones grandmother's birth dates and birthplace open for everyone to see them.
Not a single business I know operates like this. Especially as you want everyone to give all the asked data.

But I think such a data base by World Rugby is possible - just not one open to everyone.


They wouldn't necessarily need to keep that sort of data. Once a player has showed up for Tonga 7s / France U20 / etc. that's all you'd need to keep a record of as from that point on all questions of ancestry, residency etc. would be irrelevant. Proof of ancestry could be produced at the time they wanted to be capped, as otherwise you'd need to have a whole lot of data that would be mostly irrelevant.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby Caledor » Wed, 16 May 2018, 10:47

The Romanian Rugby Federation (FRR) stated exactly why it will be appealing. The details are as follows:

1) In 2015 the FRR sent documents to World Rugby to clarify the eligibility of foreign players. World Rugby notified them to only do so in cases in a player’s eligibility was unclear.
2) To gain clarity the FRR sent emails to the rugby unions of Fiji and Tonga. Fiji responded confirmed that Eseria Vueti was unable to represent Romania.
3) Tonga did not respond to which Romania asks World Rugby for an email address. World Rugby gave Romania the contact of President Fe’ao Vunipola who confirms Sione Faka’osilea can play for Romania.
Faka’osilea signs a World Rugby form declaring, on his own responsibility, that he has not played for the national representative team of his country of origin and gives a statement declaring he has not been officially notified of his capture by Tonga.
4) Russia and Spain claim Sione Faka’osilea is ineligible following the completion of the 2017-2018 Rugby Europe Championship.
5) Romania provide World Rugby with the requested documentation following the controversy which also included the eligibility of players representing Belgium and Spain.

If these statements are accurate then it appears that the FRR did not provide WR with documented evidence of their communication exchanges with Tonga Rugby Union and the Tonga Rugby Union written documented proof that they confirmed Sione Faka’osilea can play for the Romania national team. This is a complete lack of professionalism and competence from the FRR.

Now this outcome has a major reputational damage for the FRR and the relationship between them and players. The FRR really need to transform and improve their management and operations. It is no surprise that the players have reacted the way they have and will.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 16 May 2018, 10:54

Caledor wrote:The Romanian Rugby Federation (FRR) stated exactly why it will be appealing. The details are as follows:

1) In 2015 the FRR sent documents to World Rugby to clarify the eligibility of foreign players. World Rugby notified them to only do so in cases in a player’s eligibility was unclear.
2) To gain clarity the FRR sent emails to the rugby unions of Fiji and Tonga. Fiji responded confirmed that Eseria Vueti was unable to represent Romania.
3) Tonga did not respond to which Romania asks World Rugby for an email address. World Rugby gave Romania the contact of President Fe’ao Vunipola who confirms Sione Faka’osilea can play for Romania.
Faka’osilea signs a World Rugby form declaring, on his own responsibility, that he has not played for the national representative team of his country of origin and gives a statement declaring he has not been officially notified of his capture by Tonga.
4) Russia and Spain claim Sione Faka’osilea is ineligible following the completion of the 2017-2018 Rugby Europe Championship.
5) Romania provide World Rugby with the requested documentation following the controversy which also included the eligibility of players representing Belgium and Spain.

If these statements are accurate then it appears that the FRR did not provide WR with documented evidence of their communication exchanges with Tonga Rugby Union and the Tonga Rugby Union written documented proof that they confirmed Sione Faka’osilea can play for the Romania national team. This is a complete lack of professionalism and competence from the FRR.

Now this outcome has a major reputational damage for the FRR and the relationship between them and players. The FRR really need to transform and improve their management and operations. It is no surprise that the players have reacted the way they have and will.


What link do you use man? They stated clearly here:https://frr.ro/2018/05/15/federatia-romana-de-rugby-va-contesta-decizia-de-depunctare-echipei-nationale-de-rugby-romaniei-emisa-de-comisia-de-solutionare-disputelor/

"World Rugby indicates the email address to President Fe'ao Vunipola, to which the Romanian Rugby Federation is addressing to determine whether Sione Faka'osilea is eligible for competition statistics.

The Tonga Rugby Federation President confirms that the player is eligible to play for Romania."
Last edited by Bogdan_DC on Wed, 16 May 2018, 10:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby amz » Wed, 16 May 2018, 10:57

Caledor wrote:
If these statements are accurate then it appears that the FRR did not provide WR with documented evidence of their communication exchanges with Tonga Rugby Union and the Tonga Rugby Union written documented proof that they confirmed Sione Faka’osilea can play for the Romania national team. This is a complete lack of professionalism and competence from the FRR.

Now this outcome has a major reputational damage for the FRR and the relationship between them and players. The FRR really need to transform and improve their management and operations. It is no surprise that the players have reacted the way they have and will.


You misread. The respective correspondence was on Committee's table from the first moment when the dispute started. So don't jump into such idiotic conclusions and look in your yard because is a lot of lack of professionalism there and shut up and be thankful you have a chance now to move to RWC.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 16 May 2018, 11:17

I don't really get, why the Romanian federation thinks that they have the slightest chance with this appeal. Every single point in this appeal was already adressed in the decision.

Romania
41. The position in relation to Romania was part common ground and part the subject of dispute. It was common ground that Romania had selected Sione Faka’osilea to play for Romania on 8 occasions in the Rugby Europe tournament. 2 of those occasions were matches against Georgia. It was common ground that he had played Sevens for Tonga and therefore had been “captured” by Tonga. If 5 points were deducted for every time the ineligible player was playing, this
would mean a 30 points deduction in respect of the RWCQ tournament and a 40 points deduction for the Rugby European tournaments over the 2 year period.

42. However Romania submitted that it had made all the relevant inquiries that it should have done, including with both the player and Tonga, and had shown “exceptional circumstances” within the meaning of Regulation 8.5.2 meaning that no financial or other sanction should be imposed on Romania. Romania relied in particular on the facts that: first the player had not said he had been captured after Regulation 8 had been explained to him; secondly databases on websites (one on ESPN and two on Wikipedia) had been checked and the player was not shown as having played for Tonga; thirdly Romania attempted to make contact with Tonga but could not do so, and obtained an email address from World Rugby. Romania had then emailed Tonga and had been told by Mr Fe’ao Vunipola, Chairman of the Tongan Rugby Union that the player “still qualify for Romania as requested”; fourthly Romania had sent in the team sheets to World Rugby who had not raised any issues about the eligibility of the player; and fifthly Romania had not breached this provision before and had made proper inquiries about other players, including one from Fiji.

43. World Rugby submitted that Romania should have made other inquiries and discovered that the player was not eligible. First, World Rugby said that whatever explanation had been given to the player about Regulation 8 must have been inadequate, because the player could not have forgotten that he played Sevens for Tonga. Secondly, World Rugby said that proper searches would have discovered the fact that the player had played Sevens for Tonga, and that inquiries could have been made with World Rugby. Thirdly, the team sheets had been sent in to World Rugby for media distribution purposes, and World Rugby had not been asked to verify the eligibility of the players, which was the responsibility of the Union. Fourthly, World Rugby said that the email from Fe’ao Vunipola referred to “our Ikalehati nor our Tonga A against any national team” but did not deal with the Tongan Sevens team. World Rugby accepted that there was no doubt that Romania and Tonga had acted in good faith in exchanging the emails, but the information that he still qualified for Romania was inaccurate. Fifthly, the fact that Romania had made proper inquiries in other cases did not excuse its failures in this case.

44. In our judgment Romania is not able to “provide clear and indisputable evidence that truly exceptional circumstances exist and that the Union concerned had taken all necessary steps to comply with Regulation 8”. This is because, as Romania put it (very fairly) in the course of its excellent written and oral submissions, Romania “admits that [the player] knew or ought reasonably to have known that he is not eligible to play for Romania. However, as per player’s own statements attached … `I was never informed by the Rugby Union of Tonga that I will not be able to play for another national team due to my participation with the Tonga Sevens in the Sevens World Series …’”. In the Panel’s judgment, this proves that the explanation about Regulation 8 given by Romania to the player before the player signed his declaration of availability must have been inadequate. This is because an adequate explanation would have meant that the player realised that he was not eligible because he had played international sevens. In circumstances where it was well known that Tonga had a Sevens team which had competed at the highest levels, Romania needed to ask the player whether he had played Sevens.

45. Secondly the failure to ask the player is not excused by the terms of the email received from Mr Vunipola of Tonga. It is clear that Mr Vunipola was acting in good faith in saying to Romania that the player could qualify for Romania, however it was not Tonga who had the relevant duty to make inquiries. Even if, as was shown by some press reports, the reference to “Ikaletahi” might refer to either, or both, of the national fifteen-a-side or the sevens team, the direct question should have been asked about whether the player had played Sevens for Tonga. Mr Vunipola would then have had to report that the player had played for the Tonga Sevens team.

46. Thirdly, if Romania had been in doubt about the situation it could have asked World Rugby about whether the player had played for any relevant Tongan national team.

47. In these circumstances the Panel recognises that Romania had made inquiries and taken some steps to ensure that it could select the player, but Romania had not taken all necessary steps to be entitled to rely upon Regulation 8.5.2.


https://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws ... t-003-.pdf
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby amz » Wed, 16 May 2018, 11:21

RugbyLiebe wrote:I don't really get, why the Romanian federation thinks that they have the slightest chance with this appeal. Every single point in this appeal was already adressed in the decision.


You didn't see the submissions, there are issues at which the committee did not responded. But otherwise I agree there's no chance to win this.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby Thomas » Wed, 16 May 2018, 11:24

Figaro wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
Its even simpler than that.

You can have an open database that any recognised union can update with players they have captured. For foreign born players, (all foreign born players), you can have a separate database with how the person is qualified (mother, father, granny, residency etc) and some supporting documents. Anyone could access these to read, with only the documents being secured for World Rugby officials only.

Its dead easy and tonnes of businesses operate things like this.


I like the idea, but it is not as simple as you state. In the EU just this month a new data protection law comes into place and I am quite sure, that you can't just save private data like anyones grandmother's birth dates and birthplace open for everyone to see them.
Not a single business I know operates like this. Especially as you want everyone to give all the asked data.

But I think such a data base by World Rugby is possible - just not one open to everyone.


They wouldn't necessarily need to keep that sort of data. Once a player has showed up for Tonga 7s / France U20 / etc. that's all you'd need to keep a record of as from that point on all questions of ancestry, residency etc. would be irrelevant. Proof of ancestry could be produced at the time they wanted to be capped, as otherwise you'd need to have a whole lot of data that would be mostly irrelevant.


GDPR is coming into effect in 10 days time. it also applies to the UK. General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) (EU) 2016/679 is a regulation in EU law on data protection and privacy for all individuals within the European Union. It addresses the export of personal data outside the EU. World Rugby who are based in Dublin (unlike the likes of Facebook who move their servers back to the US) has to comply with the directive.

Also they have to tighten their practices in terms of how long certain kinds of personal data should be kept by specific business-sector requirements and agreed practices. So setting up the database is the easy part is the security and compliance is the hard part.

I know because that is what I am doing right now in my day job for several clients is changing everything to bring it in line.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 16 May 2018, 11:30

I stated it in March and I state it now, the Romanian federation tried to be streetwise and it failed
If they checked wikipedia and ESPN Scrum, how could they've not seen the other sites or the player's page or the signing news by his Romanian club, that he was a 7s international? How could they not specifically ask about this? I honestly can't believe that nobody in the Romanian Union was aware that this might be a problem. Streetwise (we have a German word called Bauernschlau for it) or incredibly stupid are the only two options.

The world rugby panel made absolutely clear, that it is the Union's fault if they play with an ineligible player and that's actually extremely wise, as Union's can't play the "but I didn't know"-game.

Still it is incredibily harsh for Romania and I feel with everyone involved.

Btw. DRV sports director Manuel Wilhelm stated in a rugby podcast, that all Unions in the REC were asked to provide all player's datas for the last 2 (?) years. Germany sent in 75 player's infos i.e. (a lot more than all the other nations due to our civil war).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:04

That Baia Mare webpage - dated 27 Feb 2014 - stating:
"Sione Fakaosilea + jucător din Tonga, internaţional de rugby în 7, ultima echipă la care a jucat este Toloa. Joacă pe postul de centru, este născut în 1987, are 1,82 metri înălţime şi 109 kilograme.


is surely going to kill any appeal before it starts. If his club knew, and the info was there in Romanian, the oversight is huge.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:28

Nobody tries to be streetwise with something like that if:
- the player says he is ok
- this sites says he is ok espn, wiki, ultimaterugby (for ex sporpl you can't open if you have a good antivir, at least mine don't let me so probably FRRR can't open that too)
- the Tonga union says he is ok
- WR says to ask them " only if you have doubts"

I talk personally with the player right in the scandal day on his FB messenger. The guy is a very nice person, religious, family type etc but very ...simple . He was very surprised that playing for 7s is lock you for 15s. So i'm sure he didn't think is ok to signal this to FRR.
About the BM club page...yes that is huge overlooked and is already stated that FRR is INEPT. But...doesn't change the fact that FRR it looks like they have done everything WR says to do for checking eligibility of the player.It doesn't say anywhere that you need an internet expert to check infos about players on...INTERNET and not with his Union and player.
We are talking non senses right now. FRR appeal has 0% chances.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:30

Well at least the process was fair in all 5 nations being checked for eligibility. But I don't understand why it's even gotten to this situation in the first place. The fact there isn't a system in place whereby World Rugby has records of who should be playing for which nation is ridiculous. The only reason I can see as to why there would be no such system is to absolve themselves of having to deal with potential legal issues, although I'm not sure what potential legal barriers there are in this regard. But the other issue is there being apparently no guidelines in place for what information Unions need to be looking for. If a database can't be created then surly the next best thing is some type of document from WR explaining to unions exactly what information they need, and what the exact steps are they need to follow to enquire about a players eligibility. Some type of checklist they have to mark off would have potentially avoided something like this. World Rugby can't wash its hand of their part in this, the system they have at the moment clearly hasn't worked, because if it did we wouldn't have 3 nations in the same continent expelled from the World Cup. How do we know this hasn't happened anywhere else yet? How confident can we be in the future that this won't happen again? How do we know it's not happening now? Not just in T2/3 nations but T1 nations as well. They can't just walk away from this and punish the unions, they've got to look at their eligibility system and find a way to ensure this never happens again.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:34

thatrugbyguy wrote:Well at least the process was fair in all 5 nations being checked for eligibility. But I don't understand why it's even gotten to this situation in the first place. The fact there isn't a system in place whereby World Rugby has records of who should be playing for which nation is ridiculous. The only reason I can see as to why there would be no such system is to absolve themselves of having to deal with potential legal issues, although I'm not sure what potential legal barriers there are in this regard. But the other issue is there being apparently no guidelines in place for what information Unions need to be looking for. If a database can't be created then surly the next best thing is some type of document from WR explaining to unions exactly what information they need, and what the exact steps are they need to follow to enquire about a players eligibility. Some type of checklist they have to mark off would have potentially avoided something like this. World Rugby can't wash its hand of their part in this, the system they have at the moment clearly hasn't worked, because if it did we wouldn't have 3 nations in the same continent expelled from the World Cup. How do we know this hasn't happened anywhere else yet? How confident can we be in the future that this won't happen again? How do we know it's not happening now? Not just in T2/3 nations but T1 nations as well. They can't just walk away from this and punish the unions, they've got to look at their eligibility system and find a way to ensure this never happens again.


In the final of the statement WR says they will "consider to maintain a data base". The word "consider" is very important .:)

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby rey200 » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:34

They didn't ask him about Sevens right? I mean, even here someone (amz?) tried to convince us the relevant Tongan side wasn't their national team. And I think that's the point. They could have known if they tried hard enough. WR is not innocent. They make the rules, but they also should be interested in ensuring that the rules given are respected by all sort of teams. I actually think it's sort of a T2/3 thing. If it were Australia and England WR would have probably provided info by themselves.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:37

Bogdan_DC wrote:In the final of the statement WR says they will "consider to maintain a data base". The word "consider" is very important .:)


Which should be a 10 second discussion.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:38

Bogdan_DC wrote:Nobody tries to be streetwise with something like that if:
- the player says he is ok
- this sites says he is ok espn, wiki, ultimaterugby (for ex sporpl you can't open if you have a good antivir, at least mine don't let me so probably FRRR can't open that too)
- the Tonga union says he is ok
- WR says to ask them " only if you have doubts"

I talk personally with the player right in the scandal day on his FB messenger. The guy is a very nice person, religious, family type etc but very ...simple . He was very surprised that playing for 7s is lock you for 15s. So i'm sure he didn't think is ok to signal this to FRR.
About the BM club page...yes that is huge overlooked and is already stated that FRR is INEPT. But...doesn't change the fact that FRR it looks like they have done everything WR says to do for checking eligibility of the player.It doesn't say anywhere that you need an internet expert to check infos about players on...INTERNET and not with his Union and player.
We are talking non senses right now. FRR appeal has 0% chances.


I am just so surprised because in the very pdf-file World Rugby provides about this regulation, the 7s team is mentioned.

Union has made
all such necessary enquiries in relation to the above Player’s eligibility to play for the
senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side
National Representative Team or the senior Sevens National Representative Team
of the Union. I further declare that the Union is satisfied that the information
provided by the Player in his declaration is correct, that the documentation in support
of the Player’s declaration is valid and that the Player is eligible to play for the
senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side
National Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team
[...] I understand and accept that
if a Player plays for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the
next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team Union or the senior National
Representative Sevens Team
without satisfying the eligibility criteria set out in
Regulation 8 of the World Rugby Regulations and/or the Union has provided
inaccurate information in this declaration then the Union will be subject to the fixed
penalty sanctions set out in Regulation 8.


page 174 (pdf page 22)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... EiL7tdmTFd

Edit: as this was apparently changed July 1st 2016, when was this case for him made?
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:40, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:39

rey200 wrote:They didn't ask him about Sevens right? I mean, even here someone (amz?) tried to convince us the relevant Tongan side wasn't their national team. And I think that's the point. They could have known if they tried hard enough. WR is not innocent. They make the rules, but they also should be interested in ensuring that the rules given are respected by all sort of teams. I actually think it's sort of a T2/3 thing. If it were Australia and England WR would have probably provided info by themselves.


It's easy to see the oversight when you consider how little Tonga's Sevens team actually plays. Not just on Romania's part but from Tonga themselves.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby 4N » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:41

Zhenya_Zima wrote:That Baia Mare webpage - dated 27 Feb 2014 - stating:
"Sione Fakaosilea + jucător din Tonga, internaţional de rugby în 7, ultima echipă la care a jucat este Toloa. Joacă pe postul de centru, este născut în 1987, are 1,82 metri înălţime şi 109 kilograme.


is surely going to kill any appeal before it starts. If his club knew, and the info was there in Romanian, the oversight is huge.


Of the nations punished I'm most sympathetic to Romania, but this is fairly damning.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby rey200 » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:44

@trg

in the end you want to introduce a digital database with all scorelines, penalties etc published online. unthinkable. Rugby is a young professional sport, you can't just think something like this. Stop it please.

ok without being ironic: how hard can it be? Every international player should be in a database, and yes, WR has to be responsible for that. And I'm talking about test matches only, but with the current reg. 8 that would also mean all relevant teams i.e. also 2nd choice teams and sevens. It's good to have your records straight; your records are then the right ones, and we're not in the early 1900's anymore

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby Raven » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:44

I (as many that write in this forum) had been waiting anxiously for this decision to come. It was always clear there were going to be a lot of people against the actual statement; but in a very personal note I find all this to be extremely frustrating, thank god the residency rule is changing.

I don´t want to write an essay but I´m almost 99.9% certain that if we look for other cases like the French-Spaniards in Tier 1 countries at least 1 will pop up.

On another note of things, Fair played Russia, waiting until the tournament is over, and chances to be either Europe 1 or 2 are gone to play their "Joker" card. I understand their complaint had already been done, but they submitted the official docs once the BEL-SPA / ROM happened hell of a way to spice things up!

I see a lot of Spanish fans frustrated and raging against everybody... I feel their pain, but for a moment there I thought, imagine if Spain would have beaten Belgium, with or without a Romanian Ref, their ineligibility problem was still going to be raised at some point... What an ironic way to end this Mexican Telenovela, I suppose Spain would give everything to be Europe 2 again.

In any case, and unless anything changes after the appeal lapse, I hope both Russia and Germany get the best XV they can ever field to be as competitive as a Romania or Spain could potentially have been at a world stage.

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Re: New Belgium/Spain/Romania/eligibility thread UPDATE

Postby amz » Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:47

Raven wrote:I (as many that write in this forum) had been waiting anxiously for this decision to come. It was always clear there were going to be a lot of people against the actual statement; but in a very personal note I find all this to be extremely frustrating, thank god the residency rule is changing.


yet, from 1+2+5 ineligible players, only one is due to residency issues, the rest are for ancestry issues. so I don't see how this new rule will help to have a safer environment.

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