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Belgium-Spain statement

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby victorsra » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 20:30

I'd say all Romanian wins featuring Faka'asileia will be reversed.

Matches won't be reversed, I doubt. World Rugby hasn't reversed the Tahitian victory. Romania, Belgium and (maybe) Spain will lose points, but their opponents won't inherit them.
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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby scrum » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 21:12

amz wrote:So how they ll bury Belie ?

You're heavy with Belie. Spain has already submitted the documents by which Belie believes that it is "eligible". Study a little of the cases that have been said in this forum and some that have not been said and the FER has presented a WR, and you will see how their eligibility is defensible. Now it's up to the judge.
On the other hand if the Tongan is not eligible, Romania must be eliminated. It is discriminatory with 5 matches to remove the points of that match, for having had the luck that the player lined up or not. We are talking about half of the matches in the competition, not just one like the Belgian player

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby armchair_expert » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 21:41

https://soundcloud.com/rugger-info/vkho ... st-o-regbi

WR will make a decision in a maximum of two weeks

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby Sick » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 21:47

scrum wrote:
amz wrote:So how they ll bury Belie ?

You're heavy with Belie. Spain has already submitted the documents by which Belie believes that it is "eligible". Study a little of the cases that have been said in this forum and some that have not been said and the FER has presented a WR, and you will see how their eligibility is defensible. Now it's up to the judge.
On the other hand if the Tongan is not eligible, Romania must be eliminated. It is discriminatory with 5 matches to remove the points of that match, for having had the luck that the player lined up or not. We are talking about half of the matches in the competition, not just one like the Belgian player


You misunderstood what he said. He said the opposite of what you think he said. He asked the guy who said that Russia will be Europe 1 how will they burry Balie.
The only one being heavy is you.

You are right we might be eliminated. I would understand if that happened. Though i doubt they will totally eliminate us out of the competition. We would have beat Germany plus 50 points if I played 13, not the tongan :lol:
Guess we will see.

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby Sick » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 21:48

armchair_expert wrote:https://soundcloud.com/rugger-info/vkhod-sboku-1-podkast-o-regbi

WR will make a decision in a maximum of two weeks



Hope this is for real. Can't wait for this to be over. Don't even care what happens anymore :lol:

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby evil santa » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 21:55

victorsra wrote:
I'd say all Romanian wins featuring Faka'asileia will be reversed.

Matches won't be reversed, I doubt. World Rugby hasn't reversed the Tahitian victory. Romania, Belgium and (maybe) Spain will lose points, but their opponents won't inherit them.

For sure it was reversed, just read the decision carefully
Image

As of Belie - if inquiring Union has a good lawyer, they could proof he was ineligible.

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby Sick » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 22:00

evil santa wrote:
victorsra wrote:
I'd say all Romanian wins featuring Faka'asileia will be reversed.

Matches won't be reversed, I doubt. World Rugby hasn't reversed the Tahitian victory. Romania, Belgium and (maybe) Spain will lose points, but their opponents won't inherit them.

For sure it was reversed, just read the decision carefully
Image

As of Belie - if inquiring Union has a good lawyer, they could proof he was ineligible.



Doubt the lawyer matters that much

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 22:42

amz wrote:So how they ll bury Belie ?


$$$$$

He certainly qualifies for Spain, there is no doubt of that in any Spanish player.
The question then comes (IF it is asked) why he does not (RUR is aware, but waiting). He doesn't (he's a lot greyer than the BEL and ROM cases, but not exactly trivial). But see above.

We await to see the WR level of fudge/WR level of profit = $ equation not one single person here knows.
Roulette wheel goes... NOW.

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby amz » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 05:09

evil santa wrote:
As of Belie - if inquiring Union has a good lawyer, they could proof he was ineligible.

Nothing grey there, law cannot be applied retroactively .. unless WR consider for the sake of Spain to release all players who played at u20 in the respective timeline. And this is not justice but politics

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby scrum » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 06:20

amz wrote:
evil santa wrote:
As of Belie - if inquiring Union has a good lawyer, they could proof he was ineligible.

Nothing grey there, law cannot be applied retroactively .. unless WR consider for the sake of Spain to release all players who played at u20 in the respective timeline. And this is not justice but politics

You seem too worried about the Belie theme. Expert in international law? I do not know what WR will decide, but International Law says that laws can be applied retroactively to benefit, not to harm. That law is so unfair that WR has withdrawn it. I should worry more guys like Iordachescu, Petrescu , those who have perverted rugby, and have created a problem for Romanian rugby. Is your only defense Belie?

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby amz » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 06:44

So far nothing than perception on Vlad's reffing and as I said he previously officiated Spain 4 times and was the same number of penalties roughly (17, 19...)

The law is not clear for those who want to twist it but if one reads the succession of these laws in time it is clear that WR never wanted to clear already captured players. When they wanted they stated clearly from beginning e.g Sevens Olympic loophole.

Belie is not my problem but I would find it problematic for entire rugby community to see WR changing the rules during the game to clear him and Fuster and let Spain go with it for the sake of money

And yes, I am an expert

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 06:51

It is still not clear for you that 2 French guys Arpaillange and Roben make all of this with their pedantic behavior? Or do you think that we are so powerful that we control France also? It was good when he wrote after the Spain -Romania game "very well officiated". Pretty arrogant isn't? But you tend to forget everything that is not suit your cause.
About your players i will not worry, WR seems ready to do anything for Spain.

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 07:02

Bogdan_DC wrote: WR seems ready to do anything for Spain.


It is Romania’s fault that newly created Spanish(French) team was able to beat Romania.

Yes referee was favoring Spain against Romania but it was normal. Nothing was crucial just few moments.
While Vlad was complete joke not referee.

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby amz » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 07:10

Yeah nothing crucial except one not awaeded try

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 07:13

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote: WR seems ready to do anything for Spain.


It is Romania’s fault that newly created Spanish(French) team was able to beat Romania.

Yes referee was favoring Spain against Romania but it was normal. Nothing was crucial just few moments.
While Vlad was complete joke not referee.

That was not normal, he disallowed us a try, he didn't care about 4 time reset scrum in 5 m, he didn't care about Spanish off sides and he blew it every time we enter in their 22m area. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMwPawRXXjk
But no Romanian said anything about this until Spain act like a hoard of footballers (and keep doing this).
Everybody forgets that he was the ref in Spain -Belgium 2017 also with 1 red, 2 yellows for Spain vs 1 yellow Belgium. So Spain it looks like a very ill disciplined team for me. Let's remember Spain vs Canada for ex.

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby suofficer » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 07:17


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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby carbonero » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 07:57

scrum wrote: Expert in international law? I do not know what WR will decide, but International Law says that laws can be applied retroactively to benefit, not to harm. That law is so unfair that WR has withdrawn it.

This law can’t be applied retroactively:
Before January 1, 2018, he is selected to represent the Under 20s National Representative Team of a Union which has been pre-designated as that Union’s next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team (...)

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby victorsra » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 13:00

evil santa wrote:
victorsra wrote:
I'd say all Romanian wins featuring Faka'asileia will be reversed.

Matches won't be reversed, I doubt. World Rugby hasn't reversed the Tahitian victory. Romania, Belgium and (maybe) Spain will lose points, but their opponents won't inherit them.

For sure it was reversed, just read the decision carefully
Image

Really? When I searched i've found differently. Can you paste the link?
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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby evil santa » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 13:52

victorsra wrote:Really? When I searched i've found differently. Can you paste the link?

Here is the link to the statement page https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/321975
And here is the link to the full judgement at the end of that statement https://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/worldrugby/document/2018/03/22/4376bedf-4236-4a2f-bcf0-d6ada8760a48/TMG-133851-21-35-1-Decision-21-March-2018.pdf

But since in case of RugbyEurope Championship we have double round-robin, the decision might be the one you mentioned - simple disqualification.

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby victorsra » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 14:22

Ooooh i haven't seen the 2nd link.

But has WR updated the result and the ranking considering it Cook Islands victory (i guess 24-00 WO)?
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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby evil santa » Tue, 10 Apr 2018, 22:12

victorsra wrote:Ooooh i haven't seen the 2nd link.

But has WR updated the result and the ranking considering it Cook Islands victory (i guess 24-00 WO)?

No, at least not yet. In part (c) of the decision the deadlines for submissions and replies are mentioned - maybe changes will take effect after that dates.

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby Gorbeh » Wed, 11 Apr 2018, 15:04

It is going to be interesting either way. But according to all official releases including the WR press release, the game result was overruled and thus changed. Then Germany can still hope not being relegated this year. :oops: :lol:

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby BigG » Thu, 12 Apr 2018, 07:42

According to rugger.info Spain is in trouble. The news site claims that not only Mathieu Bélie but some other French born players were not eligible for Spain. https://rugger.info/news/19561

Do you have info about that?

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 12 Apr 2018, 08:26

All i can say is that this will not have a fast solution.It is a complicated situation with many aspects.

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Re: Belgium-Spain statement

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 12 Apr 2018, 08:32

Gorbeh wrote:It is going to be interesting either way. But according to all official releases including the WR press release, the game result was overruled and thus changed. Then Germany can still hope not being relegated this year. :oops: :lol:


As the matches doubled up as both qualifiers and as REC games, there could be two solutions.
I.e. Belgium could lose the Qualifier and be disqualified from it, but just be fined for the REC part. Maybe Germany-Portugal will be both relegation as well as Qualifier :lol:
You never know which solution rugby administrations bring up. I've seen it all. Too many smart people with too many time.
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