Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 17:32

In the general sense they are still a minor league.


No, it isn't. Tell a fan of a Pro D2 club this.

Second division clubs in any sport with promotion/relegation system RIVAL top division clubs. Being in the 2nd division is only a temporary state. There are no links between clubs or fans. They compete against each other in the general sense.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 27 Jun 2018, 09:18

victorsra wrote:
In the general sense they are still a minor league.


No, it isn't. Tell a fan of a Pro D2 club this.

Second division clubs in any sport with promotion/relegation system RIVAL top division clubs. Being in the 2nd division is only a temporary state. There are no links between clubs or fans. They compete against each other in the general sense.


In Munich the second biggest soccer club 1860 München got relegated from the 2nd Bundesliga and had to go to the 4th division due to a financial problem. They had an attendance of 12k in a league which had an average attendance of 1,2k and they year before of 766. Regular fans of this club would never ever support Bayern Munich, no matter what.
Armchair Fan wrote:In the American sense you mean. To be honest, I don't know other country than the USA using that concept.

To be fair it is a common concept in ice-hockey and in other "newer countries" like Australia or New Zealand. Even the Uk had it in soccer, with a 4-league closed shop. The bigger the sport and the more European, the less likely it is to have this closed system though.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Hernan14 » Thu, 05 Jul 2018, 01:51

RugbyLiebe wrote:Even the Uk had it in soccer, with a 4-league closed shop.


Not entirely true, given that in England the teams of the Conference (fifth level - known now as National League) can still promote to the League Two, in the same way that those in the leagues below the Conference can reach it...the different levels are run by different entities (Premier League, Football League and FA) but the teams can go up or down anyway...

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Jul 2018, 03:58

Yes, there is promotion/relegtions between 4th nd 5th levels in England.

There are very few countries in Europe where promotion/relegation stops in some lower division. I can only think of the Netherlands and Ireland. There are some countries with more rules to be promoted, it is not ony winning a amateur division to go to a professional division.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 05 Jul 2018, 12:16

But there was no open promotion to the 4th tier until around 1992.

Before then the teams in the bottom few places were subject to "re-election", so if a big club or a place reasonably accessible finished in the bottom 3 they usually stayed up and only smaller clubs often from geographically remote areas were actually relegated, and even then only if a better option was on the table from the non-leagues.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Hernan14 » Thu, 05 Jul 2018, 21:15

sk 88 wrote:But there was no open promotion to the 4th tier until around 1992.

Before then the teams in the bottom few places were subject to "re-election", so if a big club or a place reasonably accessible finished in the bottom 3 they usually stayed up and only smaller clubs often from geographically remote areas were actually relegated, and even then only if a better option was on the table from the non-leagues.


Yeap, by that, lower levels still are named as non-league, but as you say, no more a closed shop from 1992 (well before they could also be expelled from the orbit of the Football League and replaced by other clubs, although there were no promotions and automatic relegations)...

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Fri, 06 Jul 2018, 00:35

Those cases are related to the border between professional and amateur clubs. For amateur clubs to go pro some countries make different rules that are not just based on performance. But in all these cases the professional structure is unified, which means all professional divisions are linked and a clubs can go from one to another based on performance. It is a unified structure, even if in some countries more than one organization runs professional soccer (a division can be run either by a league or directly by the federation). Even in the od case of Brazil - where every club plays in two different pyramids, the national competions and the state competitions, there is a link between the two structures (and in Brazil after the last professional division in each state there isn't relegation... new teams must pay for a licence to go pro... once you enter a state competition you can climb to the national competitions).

French and English Rugby are basicaly the same thing.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 06 Jul 2018, 22:51

Hernan14 wrote:
sk 88 wrote:But there was no open promotion to the 4th tier until around 1992.

Before then the teams in the bottom few places were subject to "re-election", so if a big club or a place reasonably accessible finished in the bottom 3 they usually stayed up and only smaller clubs often from geographically remote areas were actually relegated, and even then only if a better option was on the table from the non-leagues.


Yeap, by that, lower levels still are named as non-league, but as you say, no more a closed shop from 1992 (well before they could also be expelled from the orbit of the Football League and replaced by other clubs, although there were no promotions and automatic relegations)...


Hence I wrote "had" and not have it.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Hernan14 » Sat, 07 Jul 2018, 17:06

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Hernan14 wrote:
sk 88 wrote:But there was no open promotion to the 4th tier until around 1992.

Before then the teams in the bottom few places were subject to "re-election", so if a big club or a place reasonably accessible finished in the bottom 3 they usually stayed up and only smaller clubs often from geographically remote areas were actually relegated, and even then only if a better option was on the table from the non-leagues.


Yeap, by that, lower levels still are named as non-league, but as you say, no more a closed shop from 1992 (well before they could also be expelled from the orbit of the Football League and replaced by other clubs, although there were no promotions and automatic relegations)...


Hence I wrote "had" and not have it.


Yeap

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