Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Posts: 4225
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 02 May 2018, 01:57

Castle Hill isn't a bad option but Rouse Hill/Kellyville area is almost smack bang in the middle of the corridor between Hawkesbury and Eastwood. I don't know how I feel about a separate Western Sydney comp though. I get what your saying as Sydney essentially has an east/west divide now. I'm not opposed to the idea, especially if it means incorporating Macarthur and Bankstown, just not sure how viable it is. I'm not sure how the NSWRU would feel about it either.

Posts: 1267
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 02 May 2018, 03:29

thatrugbyguy wrote:Castle Hill isn't a bad option but Rouse Hill/Kellyville area is almost smack bang in the middle of the corridor between Hawkesbury and Eastwood. I don't know how I feel about a separate Western Sydney comp though. I get what your saying as Sydney essentially has an east/west divide now. I'm not opposed to the idea, especially if it means incorporating Macarthur and Bankstown, just not sure how viable it is. I'm not sure how the NSWRU would feel about it either.


Honestly, it couldn't be any worse than it is at present. If any it will actually capture more talent establishing its own structures.

Posts: 919
Joined: Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:40
Location: Europe
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Thomas » Wed, 02 May 2018, 07:52

There are big areas of the west that aren't covered by either code, what does Sydney Rugby Union and the NSWRU want? This is the second or third time they revamp the club situation in the Penrith Area.

Very telling there is no team in Hills, Rocks area I wasn't aware of that or the Blacktown region. I remember back in the early 90's after winning the world cup ( number 1) they killed off the first Canberra club which was playing in the Sydney Competition and had issues in Penrith so this has been going on for some time. Also Drummoyne aligned itself to UTS (university Of Technology) for several years before they went back on their own but the logic was to tap into the Student population and take on the likes of Randwick etc... this was in the early days of professionalism.

The template was there but the execution just never panned out.

Posts: 507
Joined: Mon, 12 May 2014, 21:05
National Flag:
IrelandIreland

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby dropkick » Wed, 02 May 2018, 19:38

Scotland has launched a new competition called the super 6. They're trying to bridge the gap between their professional teams and amateur teams. I don't know if it will work.


Meanwhile the pro14 have signed a new TV contract with premier sport. It's believed TV deals will have gone from generating £12m last season to £30m next season.


Italian attendances for the pro14 are up over 50% on last year's.

Posts: 1267
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 03 May 2018, 05:44

thatrugbyguy wrote:Castle Hill isn't a bad option but Rouse Hill/Kellyville area is almost smack bang in the middle of the corridor between Hawkesbury and Eastwood. I don't know how I feel about a separate Western Sydney comp though. I get what your saying as Sydney essentially has an east/west divide now. I'm not opposed to the idea, especially if it means incorporating Macarthur and Bankstown, just not sure how viable it is. I'm not sure how the NSWRU would feel about it either.


So, apparently Papworth was on the the radio and mentioned something about Eastwood moving to Dural.

Posts: 1267
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 03 May 2018, 05:51

dropkick wrote:Scotland has launched a new competition called the super 6. They're trying to bridge the gap between their professional teams and amateur teams. I don't know if it will work.


Meanwhile the pro14 have signed a new TV contract with premier sport. It's believed TV deals will have gone from generating £12m last season to £30m next season.


Italian attendances for the pro14 are up over 50% on last year's.


Like the overall concept of the Super 6. But it's execution is ruffling some feathers. The SRU mentioned the idea of representation early on but apparently have omitted a Glasgow and Dundee based teams favouring three Edinburgh teams instead. There's also some discontent over Melrose being the Borders representative.

Re: the Pro 14.

I mentioned on another site that if the South African move north en mass like I suspect is a relatively reasonable chance then that's likely to grow further. A pretty good financial turn around for the league.

Posts: 4225
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 03 May 2018, 06:21

Working Class Rugger wrote:
So, apparently Papworth was on the the radio and mentioned something about Eastwood moving to Dural.


That's an odd choice. Dural's kind of in the middle of nowhere, mostly just big properties and no public transport. I don't even know if they have any decent sporting facilities there.

Posts: 1267
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 03 May 2018, 06:32

thatrugbyguy wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
So, apparently Papworth was on the the radio and mentioned something about Eastwood moving to Dural.


That's an odd choice. Dural's kind of in the middle of nowhere, mostly just big properties and no public transport. I don't even know if they have any decent sporting facilities there.


There's not a lot of choice. Perhaps with the sale of TG Milner which is expected to net them $30m+ they may be looking to develop their own facilities.

Posts: 4225
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 03 May 2018, 06:38

Perhaps, but still, the location is strange. There's basically one road in and out of the town, there's not a lot of shops or other activities near by, it's just a lot of rural properties.

Posts: 1267
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 03 May 2018, 06:54

thatrugbyguy wrote:Perhaps, but still, the location is strange. There's basically one road in and out of the town, there's not a lot of shops or other activities near by, it's just a lot of rural properties.


Well, it's full of a lot of rich white people. Which I have heard from a number of different people who have had a level of affiliation with the club over the years tends to be their preference. The 'white people'. Rich would be a bonus. Perhaps the fact that there's little to absolutely sweet FA to do up that way they are hoping to seize on that and become the only game in town. Who knows. Rugby admin in this country is the strangest of beasts.

Posts: 4225
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 03 May 2018, 11:21

And this is why League dominates the western suburbs. The game would be in so much better shape if it tried to appeal to the middle class people of the west and north-west suburbs.

Posts: 4246
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Thu, 03 May 2018, 17:23

Interesting article about Australian public http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10 ... 8X18767423
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 507
Joined: Mon, 12 May 2014, 21:05
National Flag:
IrelandIreland

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby dropkick » Fri, 04 May 2018, 18:20

Just on Australian rugby, wouldn't they be better off bulldozing their entire professional game and starting again? At the moment it resembles a house that has parts added to it and removed regularly. Just bulldoze the thing down and start again. Give themselves a decade to rebuild Australian rugby and learn from the previous mistakes.


Working Class Rugger wrote:Re: the Pro 14.

I mentioned on another site that if the South African move north en mass like I suspect is a relatively reasonable chance then that's likely to grow further. A pretty good financial turn around for the league.



I don't think the South Africans want to leave super rugby but they're using the pro14 as insurance and as a trump card in any negotiations between themselves Aus, NZ and Arg. I'm still not 100% sold on the Pro14's SA expansion but it does have potential. Having said that, their economy could collapse some day.

Posts: 1267
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 04 May 2018, 22:48

dropkick wrote:Just on Australian rugby, wouldn't they be better off bulldozing their entire professional game and starting again? At the moment it resembles a house that has parts added to it and removed regularly. Just bulldoze the thing down and start again. Give themselves a decade to rebuild Australian rugby and learn from the previous mistakes.


Working Class Rugger wrote:Re: the Pro 14.

I mentioned on another site that if the South African move north en mass like I suspect is a relatively reasonable chance then that's likely to grow further. A pretty good financial turn around for the league.



I don't think the South Africans want to leave super rugby but they're using the pro14 as insurance and as a trump card in any negotiations between themselves Aus, NZ and Arg. I'm still not 100% sold on the Pro14's SA expansion but it does have potential. Having said that, their economy could collapse some day.


Bulldoze might be a little too strong but certainly re-aligning it is definitely necessary. That's part of the big appeal of Andrew Forrest's concept for many Aus Rugby fans. It wouldn't entail a completely domestic competition but it would provide a competition that perfectly catered for our time zones. Which is one of the many issues we have with SR. Honestly at this point most of the rugby fans I know would absolutely support our exit from SR and move into Asia.

Regarding SA. Again it's a timezone thing. The Pro 14 fits perfectly for them in terms of viewing. Which is a big consideration. They've been holding the move north over everyone else in SANZAAR for well over a decade but this is the first time they actually have an in. I suspect they'll seriously look at taking it. But either way, I'd still prefer to see Aus break away from SR.

I think the whole concept needs a reboot. A move toward a champions league structure as opposed as the primary league for it's partners. With the advent of both MLR and the Liga Sul-Americana de Rugby in South America there's an opportunity to create a far more compelling offering for audiences. We go with WSR (which I hope gets a new name), NZ and SA along with Arg can maintain SR, and the MLR and LSR can establish themselves. We look to align each of the respective seasons to start and end at roughly the same times. Run individual finals series to crown our respective champions and then have our top 2-4 team progress to a Champions League structure for another 6-8 weeks. Which would then lead into the RC and beyond.

Posts: 4246
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Fri, 04 May 2018, 23:18

Bulldoze might be a little too strong but certainly re-aligning it is definitely necessary. That's part of the big appeal of Andrew Forrest's concept for many Aus Rugby fans. It wouldn't entail a completely domestic competition but it would provide a competition that perfectly catered for our time zones. Which is one of the many issues we have with SR. Honestly at this point most of the rugby fans I know would absolutely support our exit from SR and move into Asia.


Time zones are the main problem for Super Rugby and this doesn't help its commercialization. That's why I pointed out before why Jaguares situation is so dramatic. How many people watched them beating the Chiefs (at 4:30 AM in Argentina)? I checked Argentina's main sports journal and well the Jaguares victory is not a highlight... but imagine if it was in a better time, I bet it would have better appeal.

Maybe the future will be an Oceania/Asia Super Rugby (and explore quickly the Asian market!) and South Africa moving to PRO14 (not sure about the Jaguares).
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 4225
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 05 May 2018, 00:07

If Super Rugby is to survive I think the idea of it evolving into a Champions League style competition is the only solution. If this new IPRC takes off next year I believe that by 2021 the 4 remaining Aussie SR teams will jump ship, maybe along with the Sunwolves. South Africa will move their clubs over to the Pro 14, and New Zealand will sort out some revitalised domestic competition. Super Rugby would then become a club championship played at the end of the season.

Posts: 4246
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Sat, 05 May 2018, 02:40

In the other hand a South Africa full move to Pro14 would screw TRC's schedule. And I am afraid Pro14 doesn't allow a break to play the NZ/Aus. Very tricky to solve
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 281
Joined: Mon, 12 Mar 2018, 02:19
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Blurandski » Sat, 05 May 2018, 02:43

victorsra wrote:In the other hand a South Africa full move to Pro14 would screw TRC's schedule. And I am afraid Pro14 doesn't allow a break to play the NZ/Aus. Very tricky to solve


SA could go back to having the Currie Cup as it's premier level of domestic rugby, with the best teams advancing to the SH champions league.

Posts: 4225
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 05 May 2018, 05:13

victorsra wrote:In the other hand a South Africa full move to Pro14 would screw TRC's schedule. And I am afraid Pro14 doesn't allow a break to play the NZ/Aus. Very tricky to solve


Not really, the South Africans would just have to adjust starting their season with test matches. It's not like the SA Pro 14 teams wouldn't release their players from club duties.

Posts: 4246
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Sat, 05 May 2018, 06:29

TRC starts in August, the rest month of the NH from 2020. Remember, mid-year tests will be in July. This means zero vacancies for Boks players. It will need to change,
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 4225
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 05 May 2018, 08:06

Just because SA would have their teams playing in the NH doesn't mean they will adhere to the same policies as European Clubs and not release players.

User avatar
Posts: 938
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 05 May 2018, 16:43

thatrugbyguy wrote:Just because SA would have their teams playing in the NH doesn't mean they will adhere to the same policies as European Clubs and not release players.

Correct, but the conflict would remain., South African teams would probably ask to change the schedule to avoid clashes.

Posts: 1273
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 05 May 2018, 16:43

TRC is a product of SANZAAR like Super Rugby is. I don't think SARU would be able to hold onto their spot in SANZAAR if they pulled out of Super Rugby. HELLLO USA!!!!

Posts: 1267
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 06 May 2018, 14:28

SA franchises set to make the jump to the Pro 14. Saw this coming a long way off. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-14622260

User avatar
Posts: 2068
Joined: Tue, 15 Apr 2014, 18:36
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby iul » Sun, 06 May 2018, 14:42

why don't the saffers do their own thing at the club level instead of this? They have the Currie already

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Armchair Fan, beber, Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 23 guests