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Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 10 May 2018, 00:44

RugbyLiebe wrote:[

Need to take some time and have a closer look. What I didn't like is, that they didn't break down the global follower's age. It is really strange that i.e. in Wales only 23% of the age group 18-24 are interested in rugby, but 52% of the 25-34 age group. Something is wrong there. Or maybe rugby fans just get later fond of the sport, when they are sick of the idiot show the average soccer game is nowadays, with all that diving and crying like little children. I would 100% fit myself in that interest-shift-group. I used to absolutely love soccer, but can't watch it any more, it just annoys me. On the other hand could the rise of Welsh soccer into the Premier League have been such a game changer?


For wales it sounds about right for the national team. I mean most people in t1 countries who know about rugby at all only know about the national team and of course you are going to love the national team. The study seems pretty generalised and probably doesn't take into account support for club/regions whether that be hardcore or even passive. That would probably closer to 10-20% for 25-34 year olds, even less for 18-24 year olds.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 10 May 2018, 01:17

Speaking of northern France, next November the Bleus will host the Pumas at the Stade Pierre-Mauroy in Villeneuve-d'Ascq near Lille. It's a rematch from 2012.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Figaro » Thu, 10 May 2018, 09:52

Confirmation today that the Anglo Welsh cup is gone and will be replaced by an England-only Premiership cup. Welsh sides will focus on their U23 development competition, which is pretty much what they used the Anglo-Welsh for anyway.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby grande » Thu, 10 May 2018, 12:32

Figaro wrote:Confirmation today that the Anglo Welsh cup is gone and will be replaced by an England-only Premiership cup. Welsh sides will focus on their U23 development competition, which is pretty much what they used the Anglo-Welsh for anyway.


It's incredibly unlikely to happen, but I would loooove to see an FA Cup-style tournament for English rugby.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Blurandski » Thu, 10 May 2018, 13:16

grande wrote:
Figaro wrote:Confirmation today that the Anglo Welsh cup is gone and will be replaced by an England-only Premiership cup. Welsh sides will focus on their U23 development competition, which is pretty much what they used the Anglo-Welsh for anyway.


It's incredibly unlikely to happen, but I would loooove to see an FA Cup-style tournament for English rugby.


It used to happen, my local club has a photo of them (3rd tier at the time I think) celebrating a win over Gloucester at Kingsholm.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Thu, 10 May 2018, 13:31

Now that the RFU Championship has no playoffs and has boring dispute for the promotion they could award Championship clubs spots in the Cup. It would help them. But they will? I doubt there is any intention to promote the rise of new clubs...
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby jservuk » Sat, 12 May 2018, 11:31

Rugby League in England described as "flagging" here.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-leagu ... uch-rugby/

For those who don't know, Barry Hearn is a big personality in UK, having made snooker a big "sport" in England in the 1970s-80s, and has increased interest in boxing again with his son Eddie.

He owned Leyton Orient FC, and I do wonder what he would have done if he'd bought a bigger club like Leeds United.

But his involvement with RFL would be very interesting. They obviously see big potential. Interestingly he seems to think the key thing is to have superstars. Not many RU players are national superstars, and this might be why it struggles for attention at times.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 12 May 2018, 13:10

I’ve never understood the point of an FA Cup style tournament for rugby. In soccer it’s possible for a League 2 team to spring a 1-0 upset over a Premier League club, in rugby the odds of something similar happening are virtually zero.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 12 May 2018, 15:01

thatrugbyguy wrote:I’ve never understood the point of an FA Cup style tournament for rugby. In soccer it’s possible for a League 2 team to spring a 1-0 upset over a Premier League club, in rugby the odds of something similar happening are virtually zero.



Well we had a cup and up sets were actually getting more common over time before, for totally unrelated reasons :roll: , the top clubs refused to play in it and forced the change to an Anglo-Welsh Cup just with themselves and the Welsh.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 12 May 2018, 15:56

thatrugbyguy wrote:I’ve never understood the point of an FA Cup style tournament for rugby. In soccer it’s possible for a League 2 team to spring a 1-0 upset over a Premier League club, in rugby the odds of something similar happening are virtually zero.

Correct. But that's because in the FA Cup, the Premier League and EFL Championship teams enter in the round of 64. Meanwhile in the Coppa Italia, the top 8 Serie A teams enter in round of 16.

So with a more staggered tournament format, brutal clashes are avoided. Of course, that requires more rounds, and the "everyone can reach the final" motto gets a bit lost.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Tue, 19 Jun 2018, 15:05

Greater Sydney Rams out of the Australian NRC: http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/06/06 ... untry-2018

This means Sydney will have only 1 team and the NRC will be reduced from 9 to 8 teams.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Tomster7uk » Tue, 19 Jun 2018, 15:24

A FA cup style tournament for rugby union. That would be something to see, though if it was open to all tiers in rugby union, there would be loads of heavy beatings....

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 20 Jun 2018, 04:35

victorsra wrote:Greater Sydney Rams out of the Australian NRC: http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/06/06 ... untry-2018

This means Sydney will have only 1 team and the NRC will be reduced from 9 to 8 teams.


Same as Brisbane. The writing was on the wall last season when the Eastwood Rugby Club bought the Rams and essentially undid all the growrh from the previous three seasons.

The Eastwood Club President has been very vocal in his and his clubs opposition to the NRC. Probably planned it.

It's sas but not the worst move. The NSW teams will be far more competitive this season.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 20 Jun 2018, 08:39

Why am I not surprised this happened? :|

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 20 Jun 2018, 09:27

thatrugbyguy wrote:Why am I not surprised this happened? :|


Saw it coming with the above last season. Which was a real shame as the season before saw some really good dividends from a lot of work done to engage the local communities of the city's west.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Wed, 20 Jun 2018, 13:10

I never understood why Rugby Australia is not simply using the same Super Rugby franchises in the NRC. Ad Force and Fiji and that's it. Maybe a Australia U21 team with a fancier name.

If it is already difficult to make Super Rugby grow imagine how hard is to make succesful 8 new teams that play less than 10 matches/year...
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 21:04

Soccer and cricket have succeeded in creating local derbies in Melbourne and Syndey.

The ARU attempted the same in Sydney, but failed.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 06:37

victorsra wrote:I never understood why Rugby Australia is not simply using the same Super Rugby franchises in the NRC. Ad Force and Fiji and that's it. Maybe a Australia U21 team with a fancier name.

If it is already difficult to make Super Rugby grow imagine how hard is to make succesful 8 new teams that play less than 10 matches/year...

I don't really understand the SH usage of their minor league system in Rugby, that's how I look at Currie Cup, Mitre10, and the NRC. In the US we don't use them as broadcast fodder unless you're in podunk (when I was in El Paso the Chihuahuas got on TV). You run the seasons concurrently and for relatively the same length. Let's say 80%. I understand in Europe they may not think the second division is the Minors, but that's really what it is.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby NaBUru38 » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 13:02

MLB and NBA have too many matches, so nobody would ever care about minor leagues, other than March Madness.

But NFL has very few games per season. Therefore college football is hugely popular as well.

Super Rugby has a short season, so it doesn't kill interest for the Currie Cup and Mitre 10 Cup.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 14:08

Ideally we'd have a 10 team national competition that runs for 18 weeks + 2 weeks for playoffs. The 5 Super Rugby teams, 2 additional Sydney teams, a second Brisbane team, plus country teams in Newcastle and Townsville.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 15:54

NaBUru38 wrote:MLB and NBA have too many matches, so nobody would ever care about minor leagues, other than March Madness.

But NFL has very few games per season. Therefore college football is hugely popular as well.

Super Rugby has a short season, so it doesn't kill interest for the Currie Cup and Mitre 10 Cup.

Although I agree with you that MLB and NBA have too many games...the purpose of those leagues is development and there is no interest in them. I'd hazard that the G-League attendance average is much higher than Mitre 10 or Currie Cup.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 04:35

TheStroBro wrote:
victorsra wrote:I never understood why Rugby Australia is not simply using the same Super Rugby franchises in the NRC. Ad Force and Fiji and that's it. Maybe a Australia U21 team with a fancier name.

If it is already difficult to make Super Rugby grow imagine how hard is to make succesful 8 new teams that play less than 10 matches/year...

I don't really understand the SH usage of their minor league system in Rugby, that's how I look at Currie Cup, Mitre10, and the NRC. In the US we don't use them as broadcast fodder unless you're in podunk (when I was in El Paso the Chihuahuas got on TV). You run the seasons concurrently and for relatively the same length. Let's say 80%. I understand in Europe they may not think the second division is the Minors, but that's really what it is.


Second divisions are NOT minor leagues because of the concept of promotion/relegation. Any club from a 2nd division is able to plan itself to reach top level and rise no matter how much money they have or from which city they come from. They are NOT farms or development teams. Exemples of clubs that recently (last 10 years) rised from second to top divisions and prospered: Toulon, Racing, Bordeaux, La Rochelle, Exeter Chiefs... Pro D2 or RFU Championship have nothing to do with Currie Cup/Mitre10Cup/NRC teams in any sense.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 05:57

victorsra wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
victorsra wrote:I never understood why Rugby Australia is not simply using the same Super Rugby franchises in the NRC. Ad Force and Fiji and that's it. Maybe a Australia U21 team with a fancier name.

If it is already difficult to make Super Rugby grow imagine how hard is to make succesful 8 new teams that play less than 10 matches/year...

I don't really understand the SH usage of their minor league system in Rugby, that's how I look at Currie Cup, Mitre10, and the NRC. In the US we don't use them as broadcast fodder unless you're in podunk (when I was in El Paso the Chihuahuas got on TV). You run the seasons concurrently and for relatively the same length. Let's say 80%. I understand in Europe they may not think the second division is the Minors, but that's really what it is.


Second divisions are NOT minor leagues because of the concept of promotion/relegation. Any club from a 2nd division is able to plan itself to reach top level and rise no matter how much money they have or from which city they come from. They are NOT farms or development teams. Exemples of clubs that recently (last 10 years) rised from second to top divisions and prospered: Toulon, Racing, Bordeaux, La Rochelle, Exeter Chiefs... Pro D2 or RFU Championship have nothing to do with Currie Cup/Mitre10Cup/NRC teams in any sense.


The CC and ITM Cups were originally the primary leagues for SA and NZ. They are now used alongside the NRC as part of the development pathway for the professional game.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 16:11

victorsra wrote:Second divisions are NOT minor leagues because of the concept of promotion/relegation. Any club from a 2nd division is able to plan itself to reach top level and rise no matter how much money they have or from which city they come from. They are NOT farms or development teams. Exemples of clubs that recently (last 10 years) rised from second to top divisions and prospered: Toulon, Racing, Bordeaux, La Rochelle, Exeter Chiefs... Pro D2 or RFU Championship have nothing to do with Currie Cup/Mitre10Cup/NRC teams in any sense.

In the general sense they are still a minor league.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 16:51

In the American sense you mean. To be honest, I don't know other country than the USA using that concept.

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