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New Professional rugby competitions forming

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby victorsra » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 05:18

I read about Richmond playing the Championship as a semi-pro club, rejecting going full-pro: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... -doncaster

Let's try to make it more clear:

(I hope it is right)

Major Full-professional leagues
Super Rugby
PRO14
Top 14
Premiership

Emerging or Minor Full-professional leagues
Pro D2
Currie Cup
MLR
Romanian SuperLiga
Russian RPL
Georgian Didi 10

Mixed Full-Pro/Semi-Pro leagues (mix of full-professional players/clubs with semi-professional players/clubs)
RFU Championship
Eccellenza
NPC (Mitre10 Cup)
NRC
Top League

Semi-professional leagues (mix of widespread full or semi-professional clubs/players* with amateurs)
Can anyone help? Spain? Germany? Georgia? Hong Kong? French Fédérale 1? English National League 1? Welsh Premiership?

*Payed by the clubs and not Pro/Semi-Pro players only payed by the local Union
Last edited by victorsra on Sun, 13 May 2018, 22:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Sables4EVA » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 06:21

Isn't there a professional league in Sri Lanka?

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 06:52

victorsra wrote:I read about Richmond playing the Championship as a semi-pro club, rejecting going full-pro: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... -doncaster

Let's try to make it more clear:

(I hope it is right)

Major Full-professional leagues
Super Rugby
PRO14
Top 14
Premiership

Emerging or Minor Full-professional leagues
Pro D2
Currie Cup
MLR
Romanian SuperLiga
Russian RPL

Mixed Full-Pro/Semi-Pro leagues (mix of full-professional players/clubs with semi-professional players/clubs)
RFU Championship
Eccellenza
NPC (Mitre10 Cup)
NRC
Top League

Semi-professional leagues (mix of widespread full or semi-professional clubs/players* with amateurs)
Can anyone help? Spain? Germany? Georgia? Hong Kong? French Fédérale 1? English National League 1? Welsh Premiership?

*Payed by the clubs and not Pro/Semi-Pro players only payed by the local Union


I think Armchair Fan has mentioned that the Heineken La Liga is semi-pro.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 06:53

Working Class Rugger wrote:
victorsra wrote:I read about Richmond playing the Championship as a semi-pro club, rejecting going full-pro: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... -doncaster

Let's try to make it more clear:

(I hope it is right)

Major Full-professional leagues
Super Rugby
PRO14
Top 14
Premiership

Emerging or Minor Full-professional leagues
Pro D2
Currie Cup
MLR
Romanian SuperLiga
Russian RPL

Mixed Full-Pro/Semi-Pro leagues (mix of full-professional players/clubs with semi-professional players/clubs)
RFU Championship
Eccellenza
NPC (Mitre10 Cup)
NRC
Top League

Semi-professional leagues (mix of widespread full or semi-professional clubs/players* with amateurs)
Can anyone help? Spain? Germany? Georgia? Hong Kong? French Fédérale 1? English National League 1? Welsh Premiership?

*Payed by the clubs and not Pro/Semi-Pro players only payed by the local Union


I think Armchair Fan has mentioned that the Heineken La Liga is semi-pro. Pretty sure Hong Kong is as well.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby gambass » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 09:14

vino_93 wrote:Take France as an example. You have players being paid down to Fédérale 3. Maybe even at lower levels.
But Fédérale 1, 2 and 3 aren't pro leagues. Neither semi-pro. There nobody can be employed as rugby player. They are amateur championships.
Guys who get paid aren't employed as rugby players. They receive money, in exchange of what you want ... coaching, image rights, city hall employee, a fictive job in a sponsor company, ... but not for playing rugby.

So here we have only two real pro championships : Top 14 and Pro D2.
And no semi-pro (semi-pro allows pro contracts, but not necessarily for everyone / or with limited numbers per teams).


Heum... yes they are. It's not the 80's anymore :D There are hundred of contracted pro players in Fédérale 1 (not sure about the other two federale leagues). There is/was even a minimum number of contracts to have in order to play in Fédérale 1 Elite. (15 or 20 I think)

Edit: here, there is a list of the number of contracts per fédérale 1 club(2014-2015 season):
Spoiler:
Image

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Thomas » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 09:59

The Article is an anomaly from a London based Journalist, and applaud their decision to stay semi-pro rather than spend their way into trouble again. (they went bankrupt)

But, this idea is written from the typical comfortable armchair of a well-paid, London based journalist who hasn't remotely done the research required or even thought about it from the perspective of the world outside London.
Richmond's semi-pro success is based upon unique circumstances. How easily do you think players could maintain well paid jobs with a rugby career outside South West London taking time out from work and still afford to play or be essentially working part time and not hamper their careers? Very few.

A lot of this works because a lot of Richmond members are well connected, can pass on good words in the well-connected networks, has the bonus of London attracting well-off graduates who can afford to suspend careers if need-be or don't need to worry about the breadline for 10 years if they aren't performing at work.

Richmond have a player career support programs for bankers, lawyers, brokers, law, insurance etc. Do you think that sort of well connected, influential career support will exist in a plausible way for Darlington, Doncaster, Rotherham etc? Or that they will attract the rich, well connected oxford graduates who can afford a career delay until their 30's before management consultancy or something that will guarantee a good, rich career? It isn't sustainable for most clubs outside London, as much as it's wonderful Richmond can take advantage of their unique position and peerless connections with the richest part of the country, this is no model for virtually anywhere else. It is ridiculous to suggest so based on the fact one club in a very unique position does.

Those connections were partly why London clubs were successful in the amateur era, when many of their players came from outside the capital
Every club has it’s own model and they should run any sustainable model that works. If clubs can have a pro team, that's great. It allows people from less affluence who might not be premiership level or had the chance to have a decent career and not hand the game over to just those that can afford it.

The RFU needs to fund the championship (and top National league) better instead of the current model. they are important because they still reach areas of the country the Premiership cannot.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Figaro » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 11:24

victorsra wrote:Mixed Full-Pro/Semi-Pro leagues (mix of full-professional players/clubs with semi-professional players/clubs)
...

Semi-professional leagues (mix of widespread full or semi-professional clubs/players* with amateurs)
Can anyone help? Spain? Germany? Georgia? Hong Kong? French Fédérale 1? English National League 1? Welsh Premiership?


The Welsh Premiership is a mixture of
A) - a small number of typically older players contracted to play full time (or perhaps as player/coaches) by the club.
B) - players on semi-pro part time contracts
C) - players contracted to the PRO14 regions released to get game time; typically academy/youth players but somtimes other fringe squad players, and very occasionally internationals returning from injury.

Only the richest teams have any players from category A; and typically a team will be made up primarily of B anc C. Players in category B are sometimes picked by the regions for the Anglo-Welsh or other minor games. Players in category C are full-time professional rugby players (or in the academies) but might in practice play only a couple of games for the region and primarily play for a Premiership club. So probably strictly speaking the Welsh premiership should be in your Mixed group.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby vino_93 » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 11:33

gambass wrote:
vino_93 wrote:Take France as an example. You have players being paid down to Fédérale 3. Maybe even at lower levels.
But Fédérale 1, 2 and 3 aren't pro leagues. Neither semi-pro. There nobody can be employed as rugby player. They are amateur championships.
Guys who get paid aren't employed as rugby players. They receive money, in exchange of what you want ... coaching, image rights, city hall employee, a fictive job in a sponsor company, ... but not for playing rugby.

So here we have only two real pro championships : Top 14 and Pro D2.
And no semi-pro (semi-pro allows pro contracts, but not necessarily for everyone / or with limited numbers per teams).


Heum... yes they are. It's not the 80's anymore :D There are hundred of contracted pro players in Fédérale 1 (not sure about the other two federale leagues). There is/was even a minimum number of contracts to have in order to play in Fédérale 1 Elite. (15 or 20 I think)

Edit: here, there is a list of the number of contracts per fédérale 1 club(2014-2015 season):
Spoiler:
Image

Oh sorry, I thought that didn't exist, due to the "photographes" d'Angoulême few years ago :oops: :D

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby gambass » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 12:02

vino_93 wrote:Oh sorry, I thought that didn't exist, due to the "photographes" d'Angoulême few years ago :oops: :D


I didn't know abouth that one. Sound like a good one ;) Yes, shamateurism is still widespreaded in these leagues, many clubs are "cheating" their way and the number of people living of rugby is probably quite higher than the number of pro contracts signed every year. To what extent, that's anybody guess.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 13:01

England might finally be taking a game next year to the north, either Manchester or Newcastle.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 24456.html

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby kush123 » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 03:31

Sables4EVA wrote:Isn't there a professional league in Sri Lanka?

We do have a professional league in Sri Lanka , http://www.thepapare.com/sri-lankas-clu ... gners-now/ but it's in big mess at the moment after selfish top clubs in that league decide to block foreign players from playing these competition , i believe SLR will soon realize how stupid that decision was to block foreign players as they have already fallen down in WR 15s rankings .

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Boudewijn Vertonghen » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 15:08

victorsra wrote:Semi-professional leagues (mix of widespread full or semi-professional clubs/players* with amateurs)
Can anyone help? Spain? Germany? Georgia? Hong Kong? French Fédérale 1? English National League 1? Welsh Premiership?

*Payed by the clubs and not Pro/Semi-Pro players only payed by the local Union


I think there isn't any professional Rugby Player in Germany. The Players from Heidelberger RK have no contract with Heidelberger RK. They have contracts with WRA - a kind of sponsor. They earn enough money like professionals.
There are other Teams that pay money to rugby players. But I don't know anything about a fully professional Player. I think there are few/little Players who earn their whole living with Rugby: duty as a Coach of youth Teams and playing for the Major Team.

something about German Rugby today:
A match in the Major league of Germany: 1. Bundesliga Nord:
SC Germania List is on the second place on the table and starts into the match with 13 Players (I don't know why yet). So they loose 105:0. Sometimes that's Club Rugby in Germany.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Boudewijn Vertonghen » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 15:26

Boudewijn Vertonghen wrote:SC Germania List starts into the match with 13 Players (I don't know why yet).

I just read about many injured players.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Boudewijn Vertonghen » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 15:42

gambass wrote:
Edit: here, there is a list of the number of contracts per fédérale 1 club(2014-2015 season):
Spoiler:
Image

Whoa! I think Deutscher Rugby Verband (German Rugby Union) dreams of having such a budget like a fédérale 1 club.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby DotJP » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 15:40

victorsra wrote:Top League is not a convencional full-pro league AFAIK, as most Japanese players work part time in the companies that own the teams. But they have a second division too - the Top Challenge - that I believe is as professional as the Top League (BTW, any news about the idea of a Korean team playing the Top Challenge?... AFAIR it would be owned by Hyundai)


There is not a Korean team in any Japanese leagues. But there are Korean players there. As foreign companies, Coca Cola and IBM have their own rugby team in Japan.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby qwerty » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:14

It'd be good for the development of Asian rugby to have one Korean and one Hong Kong team in the Japanese league.

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 10 May 2018, 10:06

Did anyone know Ghana had a 10 team professional league?

https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/9 ... 7807835136

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby victorsra » Thu, 10 May 2018, 13:15

Is it a wrong use of the word professional or they are really paying the guys? Anyway the video shows a great story.
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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Grayday88 » Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 09:00

Hi guys had anyone heard any news about the Indo- Pacific tournament run by Twiggy. Also the All Ireland Leahue is turning semi pro in 2019-20

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Tobar » Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 17:59

It looks like the Western Force is still playing in its World Series until August 17. After that I haven’t heard anything else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Worl ... gby_season

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Re: New Professional rugby competitions forming

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 20:53

Tobar wrote:It looks like the Western Force is still playing in its World Series until August 17. After that I haven’t heard anything else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Worl ... gby_season


The only thing we know publicly is that they still plan to launch in 2019.

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