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Try + conversion = 9 points

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Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby victorsra » Tue, 01 May 2018, 20:28

World Rugby trial: https://www.worldrugby.org/news/331879

The Force are playing a series of matches against representative teams from Fiji, Tonga, Samoa and Hong Kong between May and August and the following law amendments will operate:

When a try is scored from play initiated from within the try scoring team's own 22m and there is no break in continuity of possession by the scoring team, the try is awarded seven points (not five points). A conversion attempt would follow (making nine points total).
If possession changes or a penalty, lineout or scrum is awarded, then this breaks the sequence of possession for the try scoring team and a normal five point try would be earned.
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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 01 May 2018, 21:22

Yeah, why not 11 points when you started in your own in-goal.
Or 13, if one player only has one leg.

Idiotic.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby victorsra » Tue, 01 May 2018, 21:27

Yep.

The only change I would do in the points is to make it even more simple awarding 2 points for all goals: conversion, penalty and drop goal. 5 try, 2 all kicks. This would give more importance to tries anyway.

But I am fine with the current system. Rugby needs to stop changing things every year, this is not good for the game.
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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby eal22 » Wed, 02 May 2018, 01:03

I would prefer a system where you could go for a 3-pt conversion and thus an 8-pt try/conversion, similar to the 2-pt conversion in American Football.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 02 May 2018, 01:29

The NRC trialled 3 point conversions, there was a lot more attacking play. But one thing I have noticed in recent years in Super Rugby and even at test level is teams are going for tries more than what they used to, especially if they earn a penalty close to the sidelines. And I'm seeing it across all nations too. In the old days T2 nations would simply take shots a goal against T1 opposition just to register some points, now they are taking 5m linesouts, so I don't know if this idea of increasing try values makes much sense. The only thing I'm in favour of is a change of the try/conversion structure to make tries worth 6 and conversions worth 1.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 02 May 2018, 07:07

victorsra wrote:Yep.

The only change I would do in the points is to make it even more simple awarding 2 points for all goals: conversion, penalty and drop goal. 5 try, 2 all kicks. This would give more importance to tries anyway.

But I am fine with the current system. Rugby needs to stop changing things every year, this is not good for the game.


I agree, but wouldn't mind if all kicks are changed to 2 points or to 3 points as eal22 suggested, but it needs to be done with the thought in mind to make it more accesible.
A succesful kick is worth a certain amount of points. End of story. No need to always have that "only in case of blablabla, blablbabla happens"-talk with every rule. Not good for attracting new fans.
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Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Wed, 02 May 2018, 07:17

I dislike this idea, a team can be rewarded simply with an intercept inside their own 22 and perhaps a clear run to the line? That punishes the other attacking team that is taking a risk rather unfairly. If we go down this road then are we to judge the "worthiness" of each try by its merits? Is a series of pick and goes, or a maul from the 5m resulting in a try perhaps not daring enough to be full value for the 5 points?

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby Thomas » Wed, 02 May 2018, 07:42

What on Earth where they thinking down in Dublin? Something doesn't add up. What is Forrest dangling to the ARU that made them make such a request?

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby Tobar » Wed, 02 May 2018, 16:01

There’s really no reason to change these rules to make them more “exciting.” All you’ll do is mess with the flow of the game. How does a player actually have any control over how they get more points? If someone starts just past the 22 do they run backwards to try and get the extra point? Or does the play have to actually start back there? How would this motivate players to score any differently than it does now? Doesn’t this just benefit teams with shit defenses that allow the other team into their 22?

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Wed, 02 May 2018, 17:01

Well the first touch of the ball in a phase would be either inside or outside the 22m, so you could run outside the 22m line (or kick and gather I guess) then pass back inside the 22m as part of the tryscoring move but to get the extra points that first touch and play must be within your own 22m line to qualify. Otherwise a team could bizarrely hoof a first piece of possession 40m backwards to someone standing behind the 22m to "initiate" a move,which surely can't be what is meant - the initiation must be the first touch.

You could actually have a quite ridiculous situation where a team are 8 points ahead, no more than a minute or so on the clock, with possession inside the opponents half trying desperately not to enter the 22m zone in case of a turnover and breakaway try. Meanwhile the defending team all stand within the 22m line trying to encourage them inside in the hope of the 9 pointer! The attacking team instead of taking a risk to try and make a winning try could just fanny around with the ball until no time then kick it dead. If the attacking team try a drop goal and miss they could risk giving away possession to a counter-attack and the crucial try so no point in even doing that.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby rey200 » Wed, 02 May 2018, 18:12

Hahaha, what an idea. Maybe they should add more convenient scoring possibilities: Extra point for scores including a possession phase with a box kick. Extra point for pushing a heavier pack 5 meters back. Extra point for no look passes, but only if you are born in the NH.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby NaBUru38 » Wed, 02 May 2018, 20:52

victorsra wrote: make it even more simple awarding 2 points for all goals: conversion, penalty and drop goal. 5 try, 2 all kicks. This would give more importance to tries anyway.

Exactly.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby RugInt » Fri, 04 May 2018, 01:42

I think it is important to keep the value of a penalty kick and the conversions.

Reasons being...for the penalty if you lesson the 'punishment' then you will see more deliberate breach of rules as a defending side. This will slow the attacking game down. Penalties must not be devalued. The attacking side maintains two options. Go for try, go for points. Why go for points if it is worth 1

Conversions-Kicking, like the scrum, is still an important part of the game. The skill of the kicker. To convert that try from the sideline. It is something that takes great skill and the player's effort is always valued by the crowd. Its a further nail against the defending side. Have you ever seen a team NOT take a conversion.

And whilst we are on this, what about the scrums. OK so you now have to hook. So now we go back to the days when the hooker had to have that skill. Not just able to push and throw a ball in lineout. Hookers from now might need to be shorter. But is the ball going in 'reasonably straight'. It did for a few weeks and now its getting closer to the middle rows feet. If you get pinged for an inaccurate throw in the lineout why are you not getting pinged for incorrect feed into the scrum. Both lineouts and scrums (please exclude those meaningless scrums in rugby league) are unique to this game. Why the different interpretations? Can a ref please explain :x

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 04 May 2018, 11:03

So far none of these rules seem to be making the game any better or worse. But for some inexplicable reason they are playing dance music during the match which is distracting as hell. Although on the plus side some talk of by the commentators of Zimababwe qualifying for the World Cup.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby Thomas » Fri, 04 May 2018, 11:47

At least they are playing better than the rebels, 42 unanswered points to the Crusaders. at least the score was less than 60 :D :D :D

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby evil santa » Fri, 04 May 2018, 13:05

victorsra wrote:The only change I would do in the points is to make it even more simple awarding 2 points for all goals: conversion, penalty and drop goal. 5 try, 2 all kicks. This would give more importance to tries anyway.

That is the shittiest idea from time to time appearing here and there.
I am OK with making penalties worth 2 points, but that could increase penalty count. And applying this
victorsra wrote: When a try is scored from play initiated from within the try scoring team's own 22m and there is no break in continuity of possession by the scoring team, the try is awarded seven points (not five points). A conversion attempt would follow (making nine points total).
If possession changes or a penalty, lineout or scrum is awarded, then this breaks the sequence of possession for the try scoring team and a normal five point try would be earned.

might increase it even more.
As of drop-goals - I think, its value should be 4 points at full compositions, 3, or if you want it so much, 2 - at moments the opposition have less players or both teams have less than 14 players on the field.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 04 May 2018, 15:20

RugInt wrote: Conversions-Kicking, like the scrum, is still an important part of the game. The skill of the kicker. To convert that try from the sideline. It is something that takes great skill and the player's effort is always valued by the crowd. Its a further nail against the defending side. Have you ever seen a team NOT take a conversion.x

The current points scale puts too much emphasis on kickers, which I disagree. As a fan, I want to see teams playing to score tries, not to kick.

RugInt wrote: if you lessen the 'punishment' then you will see more deliberate breach of rules as a defending side. This will slow the attacking game down.

The attacking team would kick to the touch line.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby Silver Fox » Fri, 04 May 2018, 16:43

NaBUru38 wrote:
RugInt wrote: Conversions-Kicking, like the scrum, is still an important part of the game. The skill of the kicker. To convert that try from the sideline. It is something that takes great skill and the player's effort is always valued by the crowd. Its a further nail against the defending side. Have you ever seen a team NOT take a conversion.x

The current points scale puts too much emphasis on kickers, which I disagree. As a fan, I want to see teams playing to score tries, not to kick.

RugInt wrote: if you lessen the 'punishment' then you will see more deliberate breach of rules as a defending side. This will slow the attacking game down.

The attacking team would kick to the touch line.

Completely disagree here.
Remember the 2016 U20 World Trophy and its law trials?
In order to encourage teams to attempt to score more tries, a new scoring system is suggested:

A try to be worth 6 points
A conversion, penalty and drop goal to be worth 2 points
A penalty try to be worth 8 points, with no conversion necessary

The result was that almost all penalties were kicked into touch.
Never have I seen such predictable, one dimensional and boring matches as in that tournament.
The games were completely deprived from the variety in point scoring options and the diversity in tactics that make rugby so special.

The fact that these law variations were quickly dumped was such a major relief.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 05 May 2018, 16:35

Silver Fox wrote: Remember the 2016 U20 World Trophy and its law trials?
The result was that almost all penalties were kicked into touch.
Never have I seen such predictable, one dimensional and boring matches as in that tournament.
The games were completely deprived from the variety in point scoring options and the diversity in tactics that make rugby so special.

Kicking into touch isn't being one-dimensional. I always prefer playing for tries than kicking to the posts.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 06 May 2018, 04:45

My teams are playing for more tries these days especially if the penalty is in the corner of the field. 10 years ago big name teams were taking penalty goal from the sidelines. Now they are taking the scrum or lineout. Even tier 2 nations are confident enough doing it these days.

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Re: Try + conversion = 9 points

Postby Silver Fox » Sun, 06 May 2018, 14:39

Exactly, we don't need a change in points for that.

I find it good that thanks to the current points system there is an alternative way to rack up points when you are up to a defense you cannot crack.
If the defense uses ill discipline or offenses to hold their opponent off, there should be a way to make them pay.

On a side note: it should not always be the best team to win. I like it when a team is clever (shrewd even) and make the best of the circumstances.
It adds to the unpredictability and that can make it more interesting for a spectator or a sportsfan. (That is an advantage soccer has over rugby).
A clear example of this I think everyone will remember is the recent Belgium-Spain match were Belgium played to the conditions and outsmarted Spain.
(Had nothing to do with the ref. But that discussion belongs on another thread)

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