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Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

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Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 25 May 2018, 06:21

Inspired by our little Niue post I made a quick search and I stumbled about this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafi_Tuitavake

listed here (and in his wikipedia profile) as NZ 7s player in 2008:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... rnationals

Played in the Rugby World Cup Qualifier for Tonga against Fiji on 11 June 2016 (and apparently in 7 more games afterwards).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Worl ... ations_Cup
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby qwerty » Fri, 25 May 2018, 06:26

And who would the ineligible Samoan be? It's not like it should be that hard to make up a team of mostly foreign-born players that qualify through ancestry. The football teams of the Maghreb countries have tons of French-born Maghrebis.
Last edited by qwerty on Fri, 25 May 2018, 06:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 25 May 2018, 06:28

qwerty wrote:And who would the ineligible Samoan be?


No idea. Hence a question mark.

Proof that Tuitavake actually played in a World Series Tournament for NZ on February 7, 2009 in Wellington.
http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Nafi+Tuita ... Gomez+Cora
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby qwerty » Fri, 25 May 2018, 06:29

Nice find

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby carbonero » Fri, 25 May 2018, 06:30

Olympic Loophole > https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... d=11875933

Tuitavake only decided to throw his lot in with Tonga in late 2015. He had played 12 sevens tournaments for New Zealand from 2008-10, so opted for the route taken by Tim Nanai-Williams, who switched countries to Samoa via the sevens circuit to qualify for 15s.

"I was stuck in the New Zealand system, and then the Olympic window came around, so that was my only chance to switch countries. I played the Olympic qualifying and was then able to play for Tonga in last year's PNC. That was another reason the UK opened up for me."

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 25 May 2018, 06:37

carbonero wrote:Olympic Loophole > https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... d=11875933

Tuitavake only decided to throw his lot in with Tonga in late 2015. He had played 12 sevens tournaments for New Zealand from 2008-10, so opted for the route taken by Tim Nanai-Williams, who switched countries to Samoa via the sevens circuit to qualify for 15s.

"I was stuck in the New Zealand system, and then the Olympic window came around, so that was my only chance to switch countries. I played the Olympic qualifying and was then able to play for Tonga in last year's PNC. That was another reason the UK opened up for me."

They really applied the rules like they should do for Olympic window? because Cooper Vuna look suspect also with only one tournament in Monaco 7evens. They shouldn't have more or only one is enough?

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby rey200 » Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:47

Regulation 8 says "an event". So one tournament should be enough.

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 25 May 2018, 08:10

carbonero wrote:Olympic Loophole > https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... d=11875933

Tuitavake only decided to throw his lot in with Tonga in late 2015. He had played 12 sevens tournaments for New Zealand from 2008-10, so opted for the route taken by Tim Nanai-Williams, who switched countries to Samoa via the sevens circuit to qualify for 15s.

"I was stuck in the New Zealand system, and then the Olympic window came around, so that was my only chance to switch countries. I played the Olympic qualifying and was then able to play for Tonga in last year's PNC. That was another reason the UK opened up for me."


He hasn't played in the Monaco 7s:
Tongan Sevens squad: Viliame Siale, Salei Halaleva, Atelea Moa, Atieli Pakalani, Samisoni Ma’aka, Siale Talakai, Oleni Ngungatau, Semisi Tei, Fetuli Paea, Taliauli Sikuea, Atelea Okati, Cooper Vuna.

"The Tongans have reinforced their attacking prowess by recruiting two experienced players to fill the void left by the loss of Jack Ram and Nafi Tuitavake who have both been called up by Tongan XV coach Toutai Kefu to be part of the Pacific Nations Cup."
http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/06/17/ ... ad-to-rio/

I might be wrong, but it looks like Tonga called him up for the loophole and than actually sent him to XVs BEFORE he used the loophole.
That's probably the reason Tonga 7s actually is not listed in his wiki profile.
But he could have still used it by playing in an Oceania 7s tournament?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 25 May 2018, 08:11

http://tier2rugby.blogspot.ro/2014/10/t ... t-irb.html

I understand it different. Maybe ZZ could help us, he knows a thing or two about this.

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 25 May 2018, 08:24

According to this the Oceania 7s were an Olympic event. No idea if he played there.
http://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws. ... _(00000002).pdf
(file by World Rugby)
"Olympic events" in bold on page 6.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby sammo » Fri, 25 May 2018, 08:38

RugbyLiebe wrote:According to this the Oceania 7s were an Olympic event. No idea if he played there.
http://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws. ... _(00000002).pdf
(file by World Rugby)
"Olympic events" in bold on page 6.


He was in the squad - http://nukualofatimes.tbu.to/?p=1870

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 25 May 2018, 08:50

Apparently he played there: https://www.facebook.com/TongaRugbyOffi ... 6289362501

Looks like I was wrong, was just extremely bewildered, that Tonga 7s isn't mentioned with him in any profile.
If he played in the Oceania 7s, he used the loophole correctly.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby Neptune » Fri, 25 May 2018, 15:18

I think this also applies to Tim Nanai Williams of Samoa, who played for NZ in the 7s World Series, but now plays for Samoa 7s and xvs.

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby Hernan14 » Fri, 25 May 2018, 18:16

Maybe it's a stupid question :oops: , but Teiva Jacquelain already played for Tahiti in the Oceania 7's of 2014 (thanks to that tournament PNG qualified to the Wellington Sevens of 2015 and Tonga to the HK), but in 2017 Jacquelain played in the SWS for France ... I know that Tahiti doesn't belong to the IOC, but Jacquelain also didn't qualify to change from Union using the Olympic Loophole, since on the same dates that the Sevens Grand Prix Series that qualified France for Rio was played, Jacquelain was representing to Tahiti at the Pacific Games 2015, and him don't play in Río...so, How him did to can change of Union?

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby Immenso » Sun, 27 May 2018, 21:55

Tonga know all about the Olympic loophole and 7's.

They've been the most active nation with the loophole.

Tuitavake, Pakalani, Vuna.

Plus Kefu has been quoted in the media last year about the possible, but logistically tight, use of the loophole by Charles Piutau and Frank Halai in time for the 2019 world cup.

That is why I'm so surprised about his discussion of Toni Pulu. Tonga of all places should know about the significance of being capped in 7s after Sione in Romania and their own use of the loophole.

I can only guess that Pulu is ignorant of the law and Tongan officials (and Kefu) are ignorant of the fact that Pulu has played for Niue, not that Tongan officials/Kefu are ignorant of that law.

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby Immenso » Mon, 28 May 2018, 00:52

Some more detail on how Toutai Kefu is pretty clued up on the loophole.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/international ... -for-tonga

Former New Zealand sevens representative Nafi Tuitivake made his test debut for Tonga in 2016 after turning out for the sevens team at the Oceania Championships while ex Australian sevens representative Ataeli Pakalani debuted for Tonga in July after receiving clearance from World Rugby's Regulations Committee.

The first time a player represents their new union or country must be in an Olympic event, which can include Olympic qualifying tournaments and the 2018/19 World Series, and Toutai Kefu admitted that creates an added complication for Tonga.

"Tonga aren't on the main (World Sevens) series so our tournaments would have to come through the Oceania sevens qualifying tournaments, which at this stage we're not quite sure where they're going to be held at," he said.

"They just have to play two tournaments I think...they just have to be Olympic qualifying tournaments.

"There's a tournament in the World Cup year [2019] that we still need to find out the minor details of that with Oceania [Rugby], but there's a tournament that we may be able to qualify them in around June/July of World Cup year."

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Re: Samoa and Tonga fielding ineligble players in the RWCQ?

Postby Immenso » Mon, 28 May 2018, 00:56

further info on TNW, from article back in 2016.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/international ... ility-laws

Tim Nanai Williams switched his allegiance from New Zealand to Samoa last season after playing four tournaments on the World Sevens Series, and went on to represent Manu Samoa at last year's Rugby World Cup.

...

Cooper Vuna played two tests for the Wallabies in 2012 but was able to switch his allegiance to represent Tonga at the Olympic sevens qualifying tournament in Monaco earlier this month.

Tonga has also received clearance form World Rugby's Regulations Committee to select former Australian sevens player Atieli Pakalani, who was born in Tonga and plays Super Rugby for the Waratahs.


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