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Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Neptune » Wed, 06 Jun 2018, 11:53

thatrugbyguy wrote:
Osmanperalta wrote:i dont know even if by miracle they beat Namibia i have the feeling that somehow they will find a way to fuck up or do the "big spain" if they have to lose against the weaker team they will do, to not go to the world cup


Last years Gold Cup produced some really crazy results across the board. Namibia came out in front but the rest of the games were all over the place. Kenya beat Tunisia by a 100 points, whilst Zimbabwe lost to them by 7. Then Zimbabwe were close to beating Namibia whilst losing heavily to Kenya, who were subsequently thrashed by Namibia and drew with Uganda, and then Uganda beat Zimbabwe.


That is Africa for you :lol: :lol:

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Tomster7uk » Sat, 09 Jun 2018, 14:23

What is everyone thinking the top two will be from this years Africa Cup? Do you think there is a shock on the cards? I'd love one of the lesser teams to grab the world cup automatic spot just for the underdog story.

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Neptune » Sun, 10 Jun 2018, 02:27

The best story would be Namibia going to the repechage, now thats a killer story. :P

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Tomster7uk » Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 15:31

I would rather want the like of Tunisia to win it seeing as they have never played in a World Cup Finals....that would be a true underdog story.

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby suofficer » Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 15:39

think it would be awesome if Tunisia made it , is it fair to say they're majority based in France?

Namibia got beat in Lisbon 29 - 20 in 2014 when they came on Tour before the RWC. They're a good side, but they have it too easy.

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Tomster7uk » Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 16:35

I am unsure of the majority based but after a little research I have found that one does, I have just taken a look on their Wiki page. Unfortunately most of them don't have pages on Wiki. I assume because Tunisia has a French background after becoming independent from France back in 1956 that they would play in France as it'd be easier for communications.

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby qwerty » Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 17:46

There must be a lot of professionals in France eligible for Tunisia (and many other African countries).

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Tomster7uk » Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 20:48

qwerty wrote:There must be a lot of professionals in France eligible for Tunisia (and many other African countries).


Yes you would think so through ancestry and so on. I don't know if it is the same as football (soccer) where if you have already played for a national side in a competitive match that, you are prohibited to play for a different national side in rugby. I would think this law would block the majority or minority that could potentially be eligible for Tunisia.

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby vino_93 » Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 21:34

Yes, there are many tunisians, morocans and algerians eligible in France. They can become the French's Samoa or Tonga in a few years if they can expand a bit home.

Nowadays most of the squads are amateurs players, but a few pros are in. Let's wait and see !

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby qwerty » Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 03:02

Tomster7uk wrote:
qwerty wrote:There must be a lot of professionals in France eligible for Tunisia (and many other African countries).


Yes you would think so through ancestry and so on. I don't know if it is the same as football (soccer) where if you have already played for a national side in a competitive match that, you are prohibited to play for a different national side in rugby. I would think this law would block the majority or minority that could potentially be eligible for Tunisia.


I'm not even talking about the top players that play for, or have a couple caps for France, but even D2 players. A team made up mostly of D2 players would probably beat Namibia.

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Figaro » Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 11:46

Tomster7uk wrote:
qwerty wrote:There must be a lot of professionals in France eligible for Tunisia (and many other African countries).


Yes you would think so through ancestry and so on. I don't know if it is the same as football (soccer) where if you have already played for a national side in a competitive match that, you are prohibited to play for a different national side in rugby. I would think this law would block the majority or minority that could potentially be eligible for Tunisia.


It is absolutely the same as in football as you describe. Furthermore, you can be "locked" to representing a particular nation even if you don't play for their senior side, for example by representing the country in Rugby 7s, or in designated national "B" sides like the Irish Wolfhounds, England Saxons etc.

There is a bigger disincentive for players to play for minor nations that they qualify for through ancestry though, namely, incentives/limits imposed by domestic competitions. For example, the RFU rewards English Premiership (and possibly Championship) clubs for playing X number of English-qualified players over the course of a season. If an English-based player is eligible for e.g. Norway via a grandparent, if he then shows up for Norway he will effectively be considered a 'foreigner' from the English competition's point of view. If he is good enough it wouldn't matter as he will still be picked anyway, but if not he may well find English-qualified rivals preferred by the club who will want to keep their % of English players in squads high. This makes it advantageous to a professional player at an English premiership club to remain eligible for England, even if he has no realistic chance of ever playing for the English national side. The advantage might be outweighed if compared to playing for a wealthy foreign side (e.g. Wales), but in the case of Norway, the player would probably have to pay for their own flights to attend the games and certainly wouldn't make any money out of it. If you are a player on the pro/amateur fringe it just isn't worth the risk to your professional career.

I'm not sure how the rules compare in other leagues - I think the French leagues are a little more relaxed about foreign players - but certainly the 4x Pro12 unions either incentivise their sides to play native players (the Welsh regions, Benetton) or preferentially recruit natives - or those who might become natives - in the first place (Zebre, the Irish and Scottish sides). I imagine Super Rugby is the same.

As a result there are probably dozens of semi-pro players in the French, English and other systems eligible for T2 and T3 sides who will not play for them, not necessarily because they have no interest in doing so, but because it woudl be a bad career move.

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby vino_93 » Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 12:25

In France what matters is where you played youths games (at minus 3 years in France between 16 to 21, or 5 under 16), not for who you play senior. So for example, Julien Bardy who is Portuguese international is still JIFF, whereas Scott Spedding who is French international is not.

Edit : interesting datas about JIFF numbers : during 17-18, 293 JIFF players has been used, against 196 non JIFF.
The JIFF law is starting to work. Neo-pro have played 24% more than last year.

Édit : more about regulations and datas :
https://www.allrugby.com/dossiers/jiff-top14.html
https://www.allrugby.com/dossiers/jiff-prod2.html

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Tomster7uk » Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 12:46

Figaro wrote:
Tomster7uk wrote:
qwerty wrote:There must be a lot of professionals in France eligible for Tunisia (and many other African countries).


Yes you would think so through ancestry and so on. I don't know if it is the same as football (soccer) where if you have already played for a national side in a competitive match that, you are prohibited to play for a different national side in rugby. I would think this law would block the majority or minority that could potentially be eligible for Tunisia.


It is absolutely the same as in football as you describe. Furthermore, you can be "locked" to representing a particular nation even if you don't play for their senior side, for example by representing the country in Rugby 7s, or in designated national "B" sides like the Irish Wolfhounds, England Saxons etc.

There is a bigger disincentive for players to play for minor nations that they qualify for through ancestry though, namely, incentives/limits imposed by domestic competitions. For example, the RFU rewards English Premiership (and possibly Championship) clubs for playing X number of English-qualified players over the course of a season. If an English-based player is eligible for e.g. Norway via a grandparent, if he then shows up for Norway he will effectively be considered a 'foreigner' from the English competition's point of view. If he is good enough it wouldn't matter as he will still be picked anyway, but if not he may well find English-qualified rivals preferred by the club who will want to keep their % of English players in squads high. This makes it advantageous to a professional player at an English premiership club to remain eligible for England, even if he has no realistic chance of ever playing for the English national side. The advantage might be outweighed if compared to playing for a wealthy foreign side (e.g. Wales), but in the case of Norway, the player would probably have to pay for their own flights to attend the games and certainly wouldn't make any money out of it. If you are a player on the pro/amateur fringe it just isn't worth the risk to your professional career.

I'm not sure how the rules compare in other leagues - I think the French leagues are a little more relaxed about foreign players - but certainly the 4x Pro12 unions either incentivise their sides to play native players (the Welsh regions, Benetton) or preferentially recruit natives - or those who might become natives - in the first place (Zebre, the Irish and Scottish sides). I imagine Super Rugby is the same.

As a result there are probably dozens of semi-pro players in the French, English and other systems eligible for T2 and T3 sides who will not play for them, not necessarily because they have no interest in doing so, but because it woudl be a bad career move.



That sounds rather quite unfair for some whom would actually want to play for their country but yes, they would potentially be risking professional careers. Surely WR could do something so they could do both?

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Blurandski » Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 12:57

Tomster7uk wrote:That sounds rather quite unfair for some whom would actually want to play for their country but yes, they would potentially be risking professional careers. Surely WR could do something so they could do both?


They can't really, for ultimately unions need a way to make sure that 60% of their competition is eligible for the NT, and WR needs credibly NT eligibility laws (i.e. people can only play for one country). However, the EQP system only exists in the English Premiership, so the Championship and Nat1 have quite a few European-heritage players.

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 17 Jun 2018, 12:04

EQP is actually higher in the championship, I think its 17/23 rather than 15/23, and it is certainly a greater proportion of your revenue. I think the EQP bung to the Prem is worth c.£400k per team? Compared to £5m of other central revenues. Whereas in the Championship it is £300k of a possible £500k.

In football you are only locked in if you play a competitive game such as a qualifier for a World Cup or continental championship. Wilfred Zaha played for England before switching to Ivory Coast.

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Neptune » Sun, 17 Jun 2018, 16:14

The shortlist for teams making it to the repechege is now out. Portugal has now been for sure crossed out. In Africa, im now doubting the capabilities of Kenya or Zimbabwe making it. Ill just leave it open for now, but the closest probability would be Canada, Hong Kong and Germany. Still not too sure about Africa, its a real jungle out there :lol:. Anyway, may the best team win. :)

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Re: Possible Repechege teams for the 2019 RWC

Postby Tomster7uk » Sun, 17 Jun 2018, 23:46

The jungle joke was genius.

I'd expect there to be a twist and a surprise in qualifying...Nothing is ever as straight forward as we think it is. Cook Island may pull off a huge shock in the Asia/Oceania repechage play off match.

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