Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Future powers from Tier 3

Poll

Algeria
9
26%
Zimbabwe
8
23%
Poland
5
14%
Colombia
8
23%
Other (name below)
5
14%
 
Total votes : 35
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Future powers from Tier 3

Postby 4N » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 13:31

This article makes the case for Algeria. They are easily the strongest potential challenger to Namibia IMO. Especially if Toulon owner Boudjellal ever funded them. Any others you guys can think of?

http://tier2rugby.blogspot.com/2018/06/ ... enger.html

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby victorsra » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 13:38

Colombia. They are doing proper development efforts in youth rugby
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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby 4N » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 13:38

I excluded Brazil but I think they are really 2.5 already with victories over USA, Canada and Argentina XV.

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 13:40

I don't know exactly why Poland should be ahead of Netherlands.

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby victorsra » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 13:40

Well, Brazil is at least already a top Tier 3. Not a future Top Tier 3.
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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby 4N » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 13:42

No I mean "powers" as in they can ascend out of the third tier and surpass a Namibia etc.

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby 4N » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 13:42

Armchair Fan wrote:I don't know exactly why Poland should be ahead of Netherlands.


No crowds. But I like the Dutch development work.

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby Figaro » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 13:54

The Algerian case is interesting. It would be certainly good to get a competitive team in that part of the world. That said I think there's only so far you can go with those kinds of exiled/diaspora teams. I think you will see Algeria's results take a hit as soon as they gain WR recognition, and the French-based players thus have a strong disincentive to play for them. We have already seen Tunisia hit real problems in even getting existing capped French-based players to show up, with predictable results (118-0!), let alone persuading uncapped players to compromise their careers by losing local eligibility.

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby Osmanperalta » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 13:55

Algeria could be a real contender to namibia in the next qualify, in south america i think colombia or chile, in europe poland should be judging by the crowds but i think they are stagnant for several years (maybe will help if budowlani lodz start playing in the continental shield or in the future kontinental league) and in asia malaysia

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 14:01

Tunisia it was OK in the past, Algeria can be good in the future, but Maroc is looking good right now. All the North African countries can quickly develop but all of them need continuity.My money will be on the ones are doing something right now: Maroc.

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby amz » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 14:18

My monies on Zimbabwe and they can overcome Brazil not in a distant future especially if they can get players in SA. With Namibia linked to Currie Cup trough a franchise, it will be hard to be dislodged by anybody else from Africa although IMO Morocco does a pretty good job.

Brazil is still T3 and although wins vs Portugal, Arg XV and others are good, the opposition wasn't exactly T2. I mean, you cannot compare Arg XV, Portugal or severely depleted USA side with likes of Georgia, Romania, Tonga, Samoa, Russia, Spain.

I think is an issue with T3, we won't see someone soon playing at T2 level except maybe Brazil and Germany but other than these two, I sadly don't see any other team being nowhere near this level. What these two teams have in common? A decent local competition, even if amateur. Do we see this in Maghrebian countries? I don't think so.

So Portugal and Germany will stay as T3 powers for some time, they'll have troubles beating Namibia and others will struggle seriously getting anywhere near their level (HK, SK, Poland, Kenya, Chile). Portugal may bounce back if they would make a good plan.

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 14:47

Canada! We've been diligently working our way towards a Tier 3 power for the past number of years!

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby victorsra » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 14:54

That is why I said Brazil is a high T3. Not a T2. But have you seen the Argentina XV squad? And the Canadian team we beat? Not that far. Brazil is having very strong results, people like it or not. I really want to see Brazil against Germany and Romania again soon - the difference is shorter now, I bet.

Our high performance program is very good, close or at the level of some of the T2s - and better most T3s high performance systems. Our problem is club rugby and youth rugby. I always question how sustainable is our model. But we have a pretty strong work inside the high performance academies.
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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 15:31

The case against Algeria in my opinion is that it’s no different to the situation with Lebanon in rugby league. It’s a short term fix to something that needs a long term investment. It terms of the current T3’s I think we’d have to first figure out which nations we class as T3. Some nations are hovering between the two tiers. At present I’d say Russia and Spain fall into this category, you could maybe starting making the case Brazil is in that space also given they’ve made huge progress in recent years.

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 15:43

Figaro wrote:The Algerian case is interesting. It would be certainly good to get a competitive team in that part of the world. That said I think there's only so far you can go with those kinds of exiled/diaspora teams. I think you will see Algeria's results take a hit as soon as they gain WR recognition, and the French-based players thus have a strong disincentive to play for them. We have already seen Tunisia hit real problems in even getting existing capped French-based players to show up, with predictable results (118-0!), let alone persuading uncapped players to compromise their careers by losing local eligibility.


Playing a Test in North Africa...oi

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby 4N » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 15:45

Honestly Algeria would probably be better off playing in France. Could see Marseille getting a solid crowd for an Algeria game, as they do in soccer.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby victorsra » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 15:48

Well, what's the difference from Algeria to Morocco? Morocco has a long rugby history, I guess a stronger domestic scene (Casablanca has a rugby-specific stadium, right?) and a big diaspora too. If Morocco has a better organization they would return quickly to fight for the top of Africa.
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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby Grayday88 » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 15:49

I remember reading that China plans to start a professional league and to have a million players I am not sure how realistic this is but if this is being planned then China must surely get a mention

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Re: Future Tier 3 powers

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 15:52

Armchair Fan wrote:I don't know exactly why Poland should be ahead of Netherlands.


If stated it before and I say it again the Netherlands are indeed an extremely likely candidate for this. Extremely small country (actually only 8 times bigger than the London metro area) with a big population of 17 million + they are in average the tallest men in the world. They also have the food to create frontrows :D

But I think Poland could be one as well with so many people leaving Poland for rugby hotbeds like France and England.
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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby jservuk » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 16:25

As we're seeing with Italy, and previous to that France and Argentina, it takes a long, long time, decades for a rugby power to emerge.

The dynamics of this are interesting. Do you need a few wealthy people to bank roll development in developed countries, or rely on grassroots efforts in poorer economies?

I think grassroots work in poorer countries will bear stronger dividends, but this will be stymied by lower enthusiasm fro WR than for more commercially valuable markets like Germany.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby olivier » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 16:30

Where are the Netherlands ? Easily the most promising T3 nations.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby 4N » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 16:30

Already covered. You add nothing as usual.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby Canadaman » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 16:34

Canada, if we get out act together.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby olivier » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 16:39

4N wrote:Already covered. You add nothing as usual.

You're first answer is stupid. Putting Poland instead of the Netherlands is a proof of big lack of knowledge. Participating numbers, union plan of development, national teams improvement, quality of coaches aren't comparable. Poland shouldn't even be noticed...

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby Bulbash » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 16:55

Polish new Coach is Irish and he has big plans for our rugby. National team is going in August to Italy to play some matches. In Poland crowd is 2-3k for national team most time, but record is 9k against Portugal last year. We want to popular rugby by sevens(most of towns 50k+ has at least rugby 7 team)

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