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RWC 2019 Wishlist

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Tobar » Sun, 15 Jul 2018, 20:58

YamahaKiwi wrote:
Blurandski wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:
Tobar wrote:You think the US can upset England? Damn. Even with Downfall 2018 they are still far superior to us and will be full strength in the World Cup.


England are in a bad place right now on the field, on top of that they will have just four days rest before the US match and the US will have another year of MLR to develop player fitness. They’ll have no better chance to beat them.


They'll be back in an okay place by the WC, plus an England 3rd string should still beat the US. It's Argentina, coming off of 4 days rest that is the real target for automatic qualification for 2023


In 2007 A pretty much full strength England team minus Johnny W limped (literally) to a 28-10 win over a USA team that had not much of a warm up in comparison and under a coach who hadn't been in the job for long. Infact if it hadn't been for a couple of biased ref decisions by Kaplan (who clearly favoured England in that game, just like he did v Samoa in 2003) the score would've been closer again. It would be funny if Eddie Jones having upset the applecart in 2015 then got upset himself! And in the last couple of RWCs we've seen a number of T1 teams struggling to get the engine started in their first game. I'm predicting an ENG win but not nearly as comfortably as you are probably thinking.

US fans shouldn't take a win v TONGA for granted. 1) The US has a horrible record against them 2) They usually step up for RWCs compared to inter-RWC year games. They are still going to be a tough nut to crack. Also while ARG usually steps up for RWCs in recent times, If Ledesma can't work his magic on them they could be vulnerable. I think they are definitely a team for the US to target. If I get to Japan next year this is a game I've got my eye on. Having said that ARG were looking horrible only a year or so out from 2015 and I said then they were vulnerable for 2015 and I got proven to be well wrong! :lol:


I don’t think that anyone is overlooking Tonga but we will be very disappointed if we can’t sneak out a win over them. I assume if we can’t beat them then we can’t beat anyone else.

Despite our poor record against Tonga we have improved markedly and after a second year of MLR and Gary Gold I expect and even better improved squad for the World Cup.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby jservuk » Sun, 15 Jul 2018, 21:07

I don't know if one of our Russian members was being flippant or hopeful, but he did say that Putin would be (paraphrasing) attending the first match at FIFA WC and RWC given that Russia open both events.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby 4N » Sun, 15 Jul 2018, 21:11

That England-USA game wasn't really that close, 21-3 at HT.

US backs were solid then though. Forwards have improved since, especially the depth.

USA: Wyles; Sika, Emerick, Esikia, Ngwenya; Hercus (capt), Erskine; MacDonald, Lentz, Osentowski, Parker, Mangan, Stanfill, Clever, Bloomfield.
Replacements: Burdette, Moeakiloa, Mexted, Basauri, Petri, Malifa, Tuipulotu.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Tobar » Sun, 15 Jul 2018, 21:18

welshdragon2000 wrote:My (realistic) wish list is as follows:
- Japan to reach the quarter finals
- Russia to beat Samoa (this could be a great game and I can't wait for it)
- A different winner to New Zealand (someone like Wales would be perfect)
- USA to run close 2 of the 3 tier 1 sides in their group and to beat Tonga
- A new semi finalist (Ireland most likely)
- Georgia to finish 3rd in their group and give a scare to one of Wales or Australia
- 2 shock results
- largest margin of victory to be 40 points (will be tough considering the repechage winner and Namibia are in New Zealand and SA's group)
- Uruguay to show how far they've come and to give a good challenge to Georgia and Fiji
- the lowest ranked team to give a good showing to provide reason for RWC expansion

It's a long list but I don't see why at least 7/10 won't come true.

Another I would like to add actually is that a tier 1 nation will miss out on automatic qualification but that is less realistic especially given Italy have an easy route to third. Probably most likely on pool C with the USA


I see this as very possible. The least likely imo is Japan advancing - they are in the same pool as Ireland and Scotland so one of those would have to not advance. It’s definitely possible, especially if Japan ramps things up, but I don’t see it happening. It’d be a big upset for sure.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby 4N » Sun, 15 Jul 2018, 21:21

I think it's more likely Russia upsets Japan than Japan advancing. They were better a couple of years ago than now unfortunately.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby qwerty » Sun, 15 Jul 2018, 22:56

welshdragon2000 wrote:My (realistic) wish list is as follows:
- Japan to reach the quarter finals
- Russia to beat Samoa (this could be a great game and I can't wait for it)
- A different winner to New Zealand (someone like Wales would be perfect)
- USA to run close 2 of the 3 tier 1 sides in their group and to beat Tonga
- A new semi finalist (Ireland most likely)
- Georgia to finish 3rd in their group and give a scare to one of Wales or Australia
- 2 shock results
- largest margin of victory to be 40 points (will be tough considering the repechage winner and Namibia are in New Zealand and SA's group)
- Uruguay to show how far they've come and to give a good challenge to Georgia and Fiji
- the lowest ranked team to give a good showing to provide reason for RWC expansion

It's a long list but I don't see why at least 7/10 won't come true.

Another I would like to add actually is that a tier 1 nation will miss out on automatic qualification but that is less realistic especially given Italy have an easy route to third. Probably most likely on pool C with the USA


Pretty good stuff.

Maybe also to have a team qualify for the first time (Kenya, Germany or Hong Kong)

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Raven » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 16:33

welshdragon2000 wrote:My (realistic) wish list is as follows:
- Japan to reach the quarter finals
- Russia to beat Samoa (this could be a great game and I can't wait for it)
- A different winner to New Zealand (someone like Wales would be perfect)
- USA to run close 2 of the 3 tier 1 sides in their group and to beat Tonga
- A new semi finalist (Ireland most likely)
- Georgia to finish 3rd in their group and give a scare to one of Wales or Australia
- 2 shock results
- largest margin of victory to be 40 points (will be tough considering the repechage winner and Namibia are in New Zealand and SA's group)
- Uruguay to show how far they've come and to give a good challenge to Georgia and Fiji
- the lowest ranked team to give a good showing to provide reason for RWC expansion

It's a long list but I don't see why at least 7/10 won't come true.

Another I would like to add actually is that a tier 1 nation will miss out on automatic qualification but that is less realistic especially given Italy have an easy route to third. Probably most likely on pool C with the USA


qwerty wrote:Maybe also to have a team qualify for the first time (Kenya, Germany or Hong Kong)


Yupp, to all of the above.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Canadaman » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 17:02

Just to qualify

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Tobar » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 19:20

I think having Hong Kong qualify could be good for rugby there. Fans would be able to travel and since it's so close it might get some extra coverage. From what I understand, Hong Kong rugby is very much dominated by British/Aussie/Kiwi expats living there.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 12:31

Tobar wrote:I think having Hong Kong qualify could be good for rugby there. Fans would be able to travel and since it's so close it might get some extra coverage. From what I understand, Hong Kong rugby is very much dominated by British/Aussie/Kiwi expats living there.


Hm, isn't your second sentence absolutely contradicting the first two phrases? Or did I miss something?


Apart from this, my wish is obviously Germany qualifying. The last RWC in 2015 already gave every club a boost and the tv ratings where surprisingly well.

If not us then I want Kenya or HK. Not because I am against Canada, but we need a new face at the RWC. One team not qualified for 2015 in (Russia for Romania and that's actually substituing the 2011 qualified team back in) is simply not good enough.
It is simply a tragedy that only 25 teams ever took part in a now 20-team-world-cup, with only two new teams in the last 4 editions. Hope that number doesn't go up to 2 new teams in 5 editions.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Thomas » Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 13:03

I have been thinking about this and we are overdue a new face...

Anyone of Germany, HK or Kenya. I would also want to see a major upset.

Not fussed about which game but catch one of the T1 Powers in an off day.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Tobar » Wed, 01 Aug 2018, 18:24

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Tobar wrote:I think having Hong Kong qualify could be good for rugby there. Fans would be able to travel and since it's so close it might get some extra coverage. From what I understand, Hong Kong rugby is very much dominated by British/Aussie/Kiwi expats living there.


Hm, isn't your second sentence absolutely contradicting the first two phrases? Or did I miss something?


Yes and no. There are a lot of expats there so the numbers are artificial, so to speak, but by having a RWC so close and having your country involved should spark more local interest. It’s easier to get someone involved if you say “hey, the World Cup is on and you guys are involved you should watch” rather than saying “hey come play this sport that you know is mostly played by wealthy foreigners.”

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Blurandski » Wed, 01 Aug 2018, 18:54

Tobar wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Tobar wrote:I think having Hong Kong qualify could be good for rugby there. Fans would be able to travel and since it's so close it might get some extra coverage. From what I understand, Hong Kong rugby is very much dominated by British/Aussie/Kiwi expats living there.


Hm, isn't your second sentence absolutely contradicting the first two phrases? Or did I miss something?


Yes and no. There are a lot of expats there so the numbers are artificial, so to speak, but by having a RWC so close and having your country involved should spark more local interest. It’s easier to get someone involved if you say “hey, the World Cup is on and you guys are involved you should watch” rather than saying “hey come play this sport that you know is mostly played by wealthy foreigners.”


However the boost in attention that rugby would gain in HK is nothing relative to Kenya/Germany/Canada. Pop of 7,000,000 who already have the HK 7s vs 50,000,000/83,000,000/37,000,000

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 01 Aug 2018, 19:25

Of the 35 players in their current pool, 8 were born in Hong Kong. Interestingly that the expatriate component is really not UK dominated. South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand are large contributors here. But all of these guys are playing club rugby in Hong Kong as well.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 02 Aug 2018, 09:14

Tobar wrote:“hey, the World Cup is on and you guys are involved you should watch” rather than saying “hey come play this sport that you know is mostly played by wealthy foreigners.”


Will those wealthy foreigners say to who? Their wealthy friends? I doubt they speak enough Cantonese to tell this to a "regular" Chinese guy.
Basic German is quite easy for English native-speakers to learn and still I know a lot who never bothered to learn German and who hang out together with mostly expat-friends ( I know enough English native-speakers who did learn German though, but that's always the one not in an explicit expat-surrounding)

But I might be wrong and the situation in HK is totally different. Only 8 out of 35 players born in HK in their rugby squad might be an indicator I am not that off.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby argie » Fri, 03 Aug 2018, 02:10

Argentina being the new finalist.
England going home early (sorry).
Uruguay, USA and Namibia winning a game.
Japan to QF.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 03 Aug 2018, 02:14

Argentina's path to the final would be easier if they came second in the pool. They'd avoid the All Blacks, assuming they beat South Africa,

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby argie » Fri, 03 Aug 2018, 16:05

And Georgia to QF too.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sat, 04 Aug 2018, 06:32

4N wrote:That England-USA game wasn't really that close, 21-3 at HT.

US backs were solid then though. Forwards have improved since, especially the depth.

USA: Wyles; Sika, Emerick, Esikia, Ngwenya; Hercus (capt), Erskine; MacDonald, Lentz, Osentowski, Parker, Mangan, Stanfill, Clever, Bloomfield.
Replacements: Burdette, Moeakiloa, Mexted, Basauri, Petri, Malifa, Tuipulotu.


It was close until near ht when Kaplan gave a YC to I think Malifa? ENG then scored a couple of tries in the period before ht. The YC was also very undeserved given US players a couple of phases earlier were on their feet all over the tackled English player for what seemed an age appealing for a holding on penalty which Kaplan who had a crap game and tournament completely ignored. It altered the momentum of the game. In no way am I saying the US would've won that game, but for good parts of it they actuallly went toe to toe with a very plodding, lethargic ENG. The US will be an infinitely better team next year than it was in 2007. ENG are not exactly fast starters. I'm just saying it could be an interesting game. Evenif ENG win, as will probably be the case, it might take them 65-70mins to do so.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby jservuk » Sat, 02 Nov 2019, 13:34

Bringing this back to top to see how the tournament matched up with aspirations of what it could do for Rugby.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Tobar » Sat, 02 Nov 2019, 15:00

welshdragon2000 wrote:My (realistic) wish list is as follows:
- Japan to reach the quarter finals
- Russia to beat Samoa (this could be a great game and I can't wait for it)
- A different winner to New Zealand (someone like Wales would be perfect)
- USA to run close 2 of the 3 tier 1 sides in their group and to beat Tonga
- A new semi finalist (Ireland most likely)
- Georgia to finish 3rd in their group and give a scare to one of Wales or Australia
- 2 shock results
- largest margin of victory to be 40 points (will be tough considering the repechage winner and Namibia are in New Zealand and SA's group)
- Uruguay to show how far they've come and to give a good challenge to Georgia and Fiji
- the lowest ranked team to give a good showing to provide reason for RWC expansion

It's a long list but I don't see why at least 7/10 won't come true.

Another I would like to add actually is that a tier 1 nation will miss out on automatic qualification but that is less realistic especially given Italy have an easy route to third. Probably most likely on pool C with the USA


This was a pretty good checklist and you hit 5/10 of them with a few coming close.

- Japan made QFs
- Russia did not beat Samoa (X)
- Different winner than NZ
- USA didn’t have good results (X)
- No new semi-finalists (X)
- Georgia got 4th place and had a bit of a disappointing RWC (X)
- At least 2 shock results (Japan vs Ireland, Japan vs Scotland, Uruguay vs Fiji)
- Largest margin of victory was around 50 or so, though the overall difference was better than 2015 I believe (X)
- Uruguay had a great RWC
- I believe Russia gave a good showing and became fan favorites despite losing every game, though this is entirely subjective

Overall I’d say this was a great RWC and gave hope for change in the future. The worst blowouts took place in the knockout rounds IMO so I don’t see any reason someone can argue against expansion if Ireland and Australia got crushed in the QFs.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Edgar » Sat, 02 Nov 2019, 15:07

- At least 2 shock results (Japan vs Ireland, Japan vs Scotland, Uruguay vs Fiji)


Add today's result to that list. Only the second time the underdog has won the final, and the first time - 1995 - South Africa were at least the hosts. A lot of the pundits have egg on their face right now.

Also, Boks scored their first two tries in a final, but have now gone three finals without conceding a single try. They also win every 3rd World Cup, as we can see. :geek:

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Was_a_Kat » Sat, 02 Nov 2019, 15:23

Canadaman wrote:Just to qualify


Wish granted but completely unadorned.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Tobar » Sat, 02 Nov 2019, 16:18

Edgar wrote:
- At least 2 shock results (Japan vs Ireland, Japan vs Scotland, Uruguay vs Fiji)


Add today's result to that list. Only the second time the underdog has won the final, and the first time - 1995 - South Africa were at least the hosts. A lot of the pundits have egg on their face right now.

Also, Boks scored their first two tries in a final, but have now gone three finals without conceding a single try. They also win every 3rd World Cup, as we can see. :geek:


I’d never call any win in the finals a “shock” win. They’re in the finals for a reason.

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Re: RWC 2019 Wishlist

Postby Scoob » Sun, 03 Nov 2019, 03:12

My wishlist is only 2 and that is rule changes.
First defending team must be back 1metre from rucks and second as soon as a team concedes a certain number of penalties,a player must go to the bin. I think 8 is a fair number,and the player who concedes the 8th penalty goes to the bin. Deliberate offences ie deliberate knock ons,high tackles are automatic yellow anyway as rule stands to a certain degree.
Some of the games were pleasant to watch,others were turgid.

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