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World Rugby U20 Trophy

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby amz » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 10:44

HK collapsed after good 20 minutes, 17-0

Samoa not very impressive, they have good physicals but little else at least so far, the tries come due to mismatches in Asian defense.

Probably the comments about packed stands will start so it is middle of work day and on this heat (31 in shade and rather humid) I prefer to stay in air conditioning and watch it online :P the other side of the stands which is covered is probably packed but until 19:00 don't expect too many in the uncovered stand

Samona 17 - 5 HK nice try

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 12:59

41-20 For Samoa against Honk Kong. Nice fight from HK.

Now Fiji vs Uruguay. Tight game so far: https://www.facebook.com/worldrugby/?hc ... tXiCy9R8go

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 13:26

Fiji much better than last year. Uruguay proving they are a completely different team away from home.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 13:30

Armchair Fan wrote:Fiji much better than last year. Uruguay proving they are a completely different team away from home.

Yes , Fiji released their offload game later in the game. Still their scrum looks weak at times.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 14:07

Fiji won 53- 34 vs Uruguay. Not the best games but very spectacular this two games.
Next one Portugal vs Canada with the Europeans heavy favorites: https://www.facebook.com/worldrugby/vid ... kJR8X7EEKQ

LE. Canada leading 13-6 after 25 minutes. Portugal lucky to escape without a yellow card after a clear neck roll.

Anyway it looks like "Research driving player welfare innovation in rugby as lowered tackle height trial debuts at #WorldRugbyU20s Trophy" https://www.worldrugby.org/news/358603? ... m=referral

LEE. Canada lead 26-11 at half time. The ref is a joker, doesn't know the maul rules at all and give wrong advantage to Canadians at least 3 times. Also missed another yellow card for Portugal.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby 4N » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 15:01

Quite a few of those Fijian lads will go on to be pros I think.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 15:07

Shocking refereeing in Portugal v Canada. Both sides can feel aggrieved anyway, but...

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 15:42

https://officiating.worldrugby.org/?pag ... ents&id=80

World Rugby Under 20 Trophy 2018
Bucharest, Romania
28 Aug 2018 - 9 Sep 2018

Tasuku Kawahari (Japan)
Tornike Gvirjishvili (Georgia)
Paulo Duarte (Portugal)
Nika Amashukeli (Georgia)
Kaveni Talemaivalagi (Fiji)
Alexandru-Eugen Ionescu (Romania)
Federico Vedovelli (Italy)
Nehuén Gabriel Jauri Rivero (Argentina)

:::

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby qwerty » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 17:53

Namibia 55-26 Romania final result

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby 4N » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 19:37


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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby amz » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 20:46



funny, he is saying what I was saying years ago that future cannot be predicted based on age grades teams...

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Tobar » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 21:49

Nice post by T2 Rugby blog:

Three notable age grade teams and future of the REC in the 2020's

http://tier2rugby.blogspot.com/2018/08/ ... s-and.html

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby amz » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 22:06

I am sure we would be a much greater forum if we would just read 1-3 posts above :))

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Tobar » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 23:46

Damn, I skimmed thru and didn’t realize Beeman was T2 blog. Well now there’s no excuse for missing it!

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby victorsra » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 00:43

funny, he is saying what I was saying years ago that future cannot be predicted based on age grades teams...


Well, I read Beeman's article and we have said that before. Can U20s predict anything? Answer: yes and no.


- A good U20s team don't generate a good senior team if the conditions for high performance senior rugby are not there. Portugal is the best case. You can have good young players going abroad to not return to the national team or you can have young players giving up from rugby because it is safer to bet in their non-rugby carreers. Or more than this, if the senior high performance system is a mess, the young players don't achieve their best;

- But if the U20s system system is indeed followed by a good senior system that allows players to focus on rugby (or to return from foreign clubs to the national teams safely), so, yes, the U20s results are a decent forecast of what they can do as seniors;

- However, a country with a bad U20s system and poor youth rugby results will need a huge amount of investment in the senior system to become competitive. Exemple: Brazil. And this formula is unsustainable. So, if your country is not performing well in U20s rugby you need indeed to be concerned.
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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby therugbycoach » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 00:53

Canada lead 26-11 at half time. The ref is a joker, doesn't know the maul rules at all and give wrong advantage to Canadians at least 3 times. Also missed another yellow card for Portugal.

Shocking refereeing in Portugal v Canada. Both sides can feel aggrieved anyway, but...


Ill Third that.. Refereeing was pretty poor, and confusing for players and spectators,

Thought the result played out as Portugal looked the better team overall

Namibia v Romania shocked me at the speed and ability of Namibia great off loads and support running,

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Tobar » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 02:54

victorsra wrote:
funny, he is saying what I was saying years ago that future cannot be predicted based on age grades teams...


Well, I read Beeman's article and we have said that before. Can U20s predict anything? Answer: yes and no.


- A good U20s team don't generate a good senior team if the conditions for high performance senior rugby are not there. Portugal is the best case. You can have good young players going abroad to not return to the national team or you can have young players giving up from rugby because it is safer to bet in their non-rugby carreers. Or more than this, if the senior high performance system is a mess, the young players don't achieve their best;

- But if the U20s system system is indeed followed by a good senior system that allows players to focus on rugby (or to return from foreign clubs to the national teams safely), so, yes, the U20s results are a decent forecast of what they can do as seniors;

- However, a country with a bad U20s system and poor youth rugby results will need a huge amount of investment in the senior system to become competitive. Exemple: Brazil. And this formula is unsustainable. So, if your country is not performing well in U20s rugby you need indeed to be concerned.


What exactly makes Portugal this good at U20 relative to their senior team? They’ve been in the JWRT a few times but aren’t even part of the REC. Is it the size of their country or do they just have a few good schools/teams that produce decent enough rugby and they get by on familiarity to other players?

Not to get too off topic but I was trying to think of good ways to help improve the skills of senior men’s clubs so if you can’t have a pro setup you can at least have a pretty decent and technically sound club competition. I was thinking that the clubs in a city should get together and hold a combined training session once every week or two focused specifically on skills. Too often clubs don’t have the capacity to get into the necessary training and just work on team stuff - especially since they’re focused on winning the next game. This could be a good offseason training program and maybe do it on Saturdays. I imagine most clubs don’t want to practice with their opponents but it’d be a great way to learn the fundamentals without giving away team secrets as well as a good beginner’s training session.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Coloradoan » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 03:12

Tobar wrote:
victorsra wrote:
funny, he is saying what I was saying years ago that future cannot be predicted based on age grades teams...


Well, I read Beeman's article and we have said that before. Can U20s predict anything? Answer: yes and no.


- A good U20s team don't generate a good senior team if the conditions for high performance senior rugby are not there. Portugal is the best case. You can have good young players going abroad to not return to the national team or you can have young players giving up from rugby because it is safer to bet in their non-rugby carreers. Or more than this, if the senior high performance system is a mess, the young players don't achieve their best;

- But if the U20s system system is indeed followed by a good senior system that allows players to focus on rugby (or to return from foreign clubs to the national teams safely), so, yes, the U20s results are a decent forecast of what they can do as seniors;

- However, a country with a bad U20s system and poor youth rugby results will need a huge amount of investment in the senior system to become competitive. Exemple: Brazil. And this formula is unsustainable. So, if your country is not performing well in U20s rugby you need indeed to be concerned.


What exactly makes Portugal this good at U20 relative to their senior team? They’ve been in the JWRT a few times but aren’t even part of the REC. Is it the size of their country or do they just have a few good schools/teams that produce decent enough rugby and they get by on familiarity to other players?

Not to get too off topic but I was trying to think of good ways to help improve the skills of senior men’s clubs so if you can’t have a pro setup you can at least have a pretty decent and technically sound club competition. I was thinking that the clubs in a city should get together and hold a combined training session once every week or two focused specifically on skills. Too often clubs don’t have the capacity to get into the necessary training and just work on team stuff - especially since they’re focused on winning the next game. This could be a good offseason training program and maybe do it on Saturdays. I imagine most clubs don’t want to practice with their opponents but it’d be a great way to learn the fundamentals without giving away team secrets as well as a good beginner’s training session.


Most Portuguese players don't see rugby as a career. Lots of talented young players opt for studies or careers post-graduation over a potential career in rugby.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 06:53

I was expecting that, Romania shouldn't be in Trophy. And i think HK have a better level of play than Namibia so it will get uglier for us. Al-tough the African team is having some nice individuals no 3, 4, 5,10&15. It's sounds crazy after a match like that but Oaks could have something to choose from Hartig, Neculau, Pasalan and Ser.

About U20 teams turning in good senior team it was discussed many times before over here. One thing is clear for me, is not anymore about the number of players you have. It is all about how you take maximum from your pool of players.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 08:18

Tobar wrote:What exactly makes Portugal this good at U20 relative to their senior team? They’ve been in the JWRT a few times but aren’t even part of the REC. Is it the size of their country or do they just have a few good schools/teams that produce decent enough rugby and they get by on familiarity to other players?

Not even size of the country but spread of the players. Portugal, like Uruguay or Hong Kong, can afford way more training sessions together with U20 than other teams. Before Euro U20 they played four training games and had three further training camps. Plus I'd say rugby is a bit of an elite sport there, guys pay to have a good formative work but then have no professional ambitions.

Just checked it. Portugal U20 players have been together for over 40 days this year.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Tobar » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 12:03

Of wow, I guess that answers my question. I assumed that was part of the reason.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby BigG » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 13:05

amz wrote:
4N wrote:Great article by Beeman:

funny, he is saying what I was saying years ago that future cannot be predicted based on age grades teams...


In general I oppose that statement: that future cannot be predicted based on age grades teams.

If you take World Rugby rankings and select the best 9 teams you gonna find out that they all have good U20 teams. Australia is an exception. They do not perform well at U20 level, but have extra strong senior team. NZ, England, France and SA are always good at both levels. Ireland is another exception - Excellent senior , but not very impressive U20 team.
Pacific Islanders: may have strong U20 teams, however they do not. The reasons: a poor management, lack of attention from the Union and absence of financial means.
Italy and Georgia are doing well in developing good U20 teams and I believe that approach will play positive role in near future (around 2023) at senior level.
Therefore, good U20 in general means good future for senior team.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby victorsra » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 13:29

Bogdan_DC wrote:
About U20 teams turning in good senior team it was discussed many times before over here. One thing is clear for me, is not anymore about the number of players you have. It is all about how you take maximum from your pool of players.


I cant agree with that. You can do a great work with your selected junior group, but if they come from a small pool of players it does not mean much and you'll need lots of money to improve them.

I look at our own U20s rugby. Brazilian U20s train together just like the Portuguese in our high performance academy, they are all based around São Paulo (the only state with U20s 15s competitions) and we even have a talent identitifcation program that search for players around Brazil with anthropometric criterea. But everybody inside the system complain about the lack of club u20s rugby for the development of the players.

This means yes to have the squad training together is essential and you dont need a big number of players. But you need a proper healthy competitive domestic scenario since U15s to form a good U20s team and to feed properly your senior team.

You can be competitive at u20s and suck at senior level but without good u20s your senior team is at risk.
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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 13:57

There are a lot of examples of countries with small population and small pool of players/sportsmen and with great success in sports: Croatia, Iceland, New Zealand. In rugby just take Georgia as an example. They don't have so many players but they do invest in their youngsters.Sending them in France in academies or offering them good coaching at home. So you don't need so many players but more of good coaching&preparation in my opinion.

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Re: World Rugby U20 Trophy

Postby 4N » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 14:56

Bogdan_DC wrote:There are a lot of examples of countries with small population and small pool of players/sportsmen and with great success in sports: Croatia, Iceland, New Zealand. In rugby just take Georgia as an example. They don't have so many players but they do invest in their youngsters.Sending them in France in academies or offering them good coaching at home. So you don't need so many players but more of good coaching&preparation in my opinion.


Yep. It’s hard to beat familiarity/combinations and a good coaching system. Look at how Irish rugby has taken off, how NZ exports coaches all over the world, Uruguayan soccer, Lithuanian basketball, Jamaican sprinting etc.

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