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What should change in REC?

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 07 Dec 2018, 12:19

thatrugbyguy wrote:It's only second tier as long as the mindset is that it is second tier.


Sorry, but that is pure fantasy. Every sponsor will easily find out, that there are better European teams in another competition. And that's a really important point. It will stop you from getting big sponsors. You can't overcome that in the next decades (and that's optimistic). Especially not when the 6N have a record for doing a lot in keeping the smaller European rugby nations small.

Next problem is, that the best team by far (and sorry, but that's also a valid point) is not in the EU and an extremely poor and actually a very exotic country by European standards (no offense against Georgia the second team I always support after Germany and to which I have close ties as two members of my family are Georgians and I've got two additional Georgian friends).

Therefore you only can really make those to steps and there we need to utilize more that a rugby mad country with good educational standard has maybe something to offer in the media department by very low wages. But that's only to create awareness in the English native speaking markets.

No regular German (the few rugby fans mostly come in contact through tradition or spending sometime in a rugby country) will fall in love with a sport where you get next to no info in your own language. Even if it is the global sport rugby.
Same goes for Spain (which I actually see as a realistic forerunner) and Portugal. Belgium has the sole advantage to already have half of their population speaking a rugby language with French. Russia is another non-EU country which definitely need their own social media guy as well. Romania should have that level and we need to not speak a word about Georgia as they are a brand in their own country.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby victorsra » Fri, 07 Dec 2018, 12:41

I dont think its true. Bradesco knows Brazil only play Argentina's 2nd team and they dont care. They are investing anyway because they want to build an image as supporters of emerging sports in Brazil (and they love the concept of the "spirit of rugby" to work on). It would be a good image for any European sponsor too. It is only a matter of how you work.

About languages, you only need journalist freelancers for each language for 2 months. It is better to have them for the whole year? Yes but if you dont have the money for that you only need to invest on them for w months. 6 guys for 2 months = 1 guy for a year. Not big deal. But of course you need a fulltime English-speaking PR.
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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby amz » Fri, 07 Dec 2018, 13:07

Armchair Fan wrote:
Tobar wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:It may be of help from a financial POV, but at the same time it's a tournament involving 6 countries with different languages and markets, which a bigger challenge in marketing and broadcasting aspects.


And so is the ARC - English, Spanish and Portuguese. At least there is interconnectivity in Europe with the EU and many people in countries like Belgium and Germany being able to understand each other. But yes, this is primarily a financial benefit and reduces cost. My point being that REC has no reason to be sloppy and unprofessional in its approach given how much "easier" it is to organize the logistics in Europe than it would in the Americas or Asia.

3 languages, two of them being universal, compared to 6 languages having to take another one (English or French) for a global coverage. And two pretty clear common markets (North America, Latin America) compared to very different markets in REC. I really think it's not the same situation, at all.


From Romanian POV, Belgium, Spain, Germany, Portugal could be considered well connected with regular flights and Romanian diaspora working there. Also the languages are spoken by many Romanians or Latin languages which makes them more accesible . But Russia and Georgia, even if are probably closer geographically are very much alien to regular Romanian

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 07 Dec 2018, 18:22

RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:It's only second tier as long as the mindset is that it is second tier.


Sorry, but that is pure fantasy. Every sponsor will easily find out, that there are better European teams in another competition. And that's a really important point. It will stop you from getting big sponsors. You can't overcome that in the next decades (and that's optimistic). Especially not when the 6N have a record for doing a lot in keeping the smaller European rugby nations small.

Next problem is, that the best team by far (and sorry, but that's also a valid point) is not in the EU and an extremely poor and actually a very exotic country by European standards (no offense against Georgia the second team I always support after Germany and to which I have close ties as two members of my family are Georgians and I've got two additional Georgian friends).

Therefore you only can really make those to steps and there we need to utilize more that a rugby mad country with good educational standard has maybe something to offer in the media department by very low wages. But that's only to create awareness in the English native speaking markets.

No regular German (the few rugby fans mostly come in contact through tradition or spending sometime in a rugby country) will fall in love with a sport where you get next to no info in your own language. Even if it is the global sport rugby.
Same goes for Spain (which I actually see as a realistic forerunner) and Portugal. Belgium has the sole advantage to already have half of their population speaking a rugby language with French. Russia is another non-EU country which definitely need their own social media guy as well. Romania should have that level and we need to not speak a word about Georgia as they are a brand in their own country.


Of course there are bigger and better teams in Europe, but that doesn’t mean you sell yourself short. If you want to get bigger and better you have to be confident enough in your product to make the effort in the first place. We can’t keep making excuses when there’s enough on field talent to build a platform on. It comes down to lack of desire to try and use that and build from it. The language thing is a non issue that can be sorted by having a unified communications front, media statements that are agreed to and then released in the different languages on a website that has multilingual options or social media accounts. There needs to be a unified plan and effort, and it has to be a clear vision that is willing to take on the challenges.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Silver Fox » Fri, 07 Dec 2018, 19:55

I agree with a lot of the things that are suggested here.
But mostly that a dedicated organisation should be formed and that all it's effort should be focussed on only the REC and not the lower tier competitions.
Yes, like the 6N organisation (only not closed shop).

The tournament should/could be the third annual rugby tournament behind the 6N and the RC.
Thing is that at the moment it is just one of many Rugby Europe tournaments and has the same level of organisation, promotion, feel, stature and exposure
as say RE Conference 2 South.
So let's say that a lot of effort is invested in promoting the championship. That in itself won't be enough.
You cannot risk that all the effort that is put into promoting your tournament when the participating unions are not up to it.

The unions themselves also need to be up to professional standards.
Until 2 years ago Russia played their home games in Sochi in what even remotely looked like a proper stadium.
As it is nice to have promotion and relegation you cannot risk wasting all your investments by letting just everyone in.
So if you ask me then also very strict criteria have to apply for being allowed in the Championship and most of those will be off the pitch I reckon.
If a nation is not up to it they demote to the Trophy and once they get their act together they can get in.

I wouldn't mind much if that meant that the championship was reduced to 4 teams for example.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Sat, 08 Dec 2018, 00:58

RugbyLiebe wrote:Russia is another non-EU country which definitely need their own social media guy as well. Romania should have that level and we need to not speak a word about Georgia as they are a brand in their own country.


Harsh. Russia have at least two f/t social media guys (might well be more now, I don't know for sure) and since 2010 have done it in English (at least heavily on Twitter and more lightly on FB/YT) as well as Russian (VK/Twitter/FB/YT). No one else at our level has done/is doing that. Neither are France or Italy or Argentina or Japan. We have better social media than a lot of T2 (more or less anyone not in North America) and I would say at least one T1. Maybe it depends where you look/what you want?

Which leads to - serious Q: what don't Russia have that you would like to see?
(As in: I can't change anything myself here, so don't go shooting down wildly and wanting the moon, but I can pass on suggestions to the SocMed guys there who I know personally.)

Romania have been doing at least some stuff in English for about a year and are improving massively in this sphere.

Georgia are getting there and slowly understanding they need more outreach than Georgia itself, albeit less so. They're quite a long way behind and haven't yet figured out it's not only about flag waving, but they are playing to a small, [relatively] remote domestic audience motivated by nationalism above all else, so you can understand why. Still it's RWC year, so you'd be amazed if they didn't get with it. They must surely get there.

The less said about Spain the better, but maybe that's just jadedness from their embarrassingly godawful media handling of Brussels and ensuing months.

Aside from that it should surprise nobody that I agree with everything AF says.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Blurandski » Sat, 08 Dec 2018, 02:42

Russian Rugby twitter (@russiarugby) is by some very significant margin the best T2 union twitter, and probably surpasses Argentina/Italy. They have everything from Continental shield lineup graphics and birthdays to development coverage, thanking hosts as well as the big headline stuff such as live tweeting almost all of their matches. When they try humour they get the tone perfect as well, which is impressive for non-native English speakers.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 08 Dec 2018, 05:34

Russia and Brazil have been the most active T2/T3 nations on social media by a large margin.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Vova12 » Sat, 08 Dec 2018, 07:35

An interesting topic about rugby in Moscow. It makes my friend. In Russian but Google translator can solve all problems.
"Moscow Rugby Week"

https://vk.com/moscowrugbyweek

Image :lol:
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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Vova12 » Sat, 08 Dec 2018, 08:30

Site about rugby in lower leagues of Russia. Also in Russian.

http://nationalrugby.ru/
Image

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 08 Dec 2018, 10:13

Zhenya_Zima wrote:The less said about Spain the better, but maybe that's just jadedness from their embarrassingly godawful media handling of Brussels and ensuing months.

It's shambles. They fired a decent guy who was betting on video, replaced him with a woman who keeps playing rugby on weekends (so she isn't 100% committed) and brought in an old fart from football who has no fucking clue about neither about rugby nor social media responsible for all the catastrophic approach from last 12 months.

And the only reason why I'm here it's because our union seems unable to sell the good about Spanish rugby in English or French, so I thought it was a good idea to do it by myself... :roll:

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sat, 08 Dec 2018, 12:20

Armchair Fan
Me too ...

Why I still stay here? To promote bits of GEO rugby
+ learn about T2 matters first-hand ... nowhere else possible

Btw back in 2001 I was running a dedicated ENC media-service site
but then went back to daily sports newspaper reporting

:::

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Silver Fox » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 08:19

Changes in REC to improve professionality, stature, income?
So that the participating nations are more respected by tier 1 and will be able to compete both on and off the field?

I'd say, if Rugby Europe is inapt to achieve this, don't bother.
Get behind the World League proposal instead.

I think World Rugby is a much better position to support nations in the first and second level (roughly 13-24 in the world, incl. 4 to 5 REC nations) than RE will ever be.
They already do this through streaming services, branding and funding of several Nations Cups.
Let RE concentrate at grass-roots programmes.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 10:00

Zhenya_Zima wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:Russia is another non-EU country which definitely need their own social media guy as well. Romania should have that level and we need to not speak a word about Georgia as they are a brand in their own country.


Harsh. Russia have at least two f/t social media guys (might well be more now, I don't know for sure) and since 2010 have done it in English (at least heavily on Twitter and more lightly on FB/YT) as well as Russian (VK/Twitter/FB/YT). No one else at our level has done/is doing that. Neither are France or Italy or Argentina or Japan. We have better social media than a lot of T2 (more or less anyone not in North America) and I would say at least one T1. Maybe it depends where you look/what you want?
.


I meant that Rugby Europe needs one guy doing social media in Russian to promote this kind of competition. As a continental federation it is extremely important that you can cater your REC markets yourself.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 10:55

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Zhenya_Zima wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:Russia is another non-EU country which definitely need their own social media guy as well. Romania should have that level and we need to not speak a word about Georgia as they are a brand in their own country.


Harsh. Russia have at least two f/t social media guys (might well be more now, I don't know for sure) and since 2010 have done it in English (at least heavily on Twitter and more lightly on FB/YT) as well as Russian (VK/Twitter/FB/YT). No one else at our level has done/is doing that. Neither are France or Italy or Argentina or Japan. We have better social media than a lot of T2 (more or less anyone not in North America) and I would say at least one T1. Maybe it depends where you look/what you want?
.


I meant that Rugby Europe needs one guy doing social media in Russian to promote this kind of competition. As a continental federation it is extremely important that you can cater your REC markets yourself.


:thumbup: Agreed. Although Russian-language may be some distant dream given how dreadful even their English-language platforms are.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 11:51

Zhenya_Zima wrote:
:thumbup: Agreed. Although Russian-language may be some distant dream given how dreadful even their English-language platforms are.


Well the Georgians I know do all speak Russian. Not sure how good, but maybe that would be a possible two-language-solution at hand.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 13:43

I speak but younger generations -- hardly
One should take into account our language policy as well

RUGBY is totally georgianzed:
folks think, write, talk, listen to good, educated Georgian

Popular glossary >> http://site.rugby.ge/ka-GE/GLOSSARY/

Our bible >> http://files.rugby.ge/VARIA/ragbis_tesebi_2018.pdf

Hence, we will | should do everything in our language --
NO alternatives, be it Cornish | Bosnian | French | Yiddish

:::

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby victorsra » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 13:51

This is not an issue! You can pay freelancers for the REC months in all languages.
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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby NedRugby » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 16:18

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:Hence, we will | should do everything in our language --
NO alternatives, be it Cornish | Bosnian | French | Yiddish
:::



I think this is where you are going wrong. You should definitely provide translations into Cornish.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Tobar » Fri, 14 Dec 2018, 19:17

Seriously, how are the Brittonic people supposed to follow the game?

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 15 Dec 2018, 15:38

I know it was one of the things ruled out in the opening post but for me a TV broadcast in the UK on something like Eurosport, even if only for the attractive looking and timed matches (Georgia home games, maybe Spain home matches), would probably do the most to change the perception of the competition. London and Dublin are still the most important press packs in European rugby. If you put the competition under their noses you'll get more support for other measures that would help too.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 17 Dec 2018, 10:12

sk 88 wrote:I know it was one of the things ruled out in the opening post but for me a TV broadcast in the UK on something like Eurosport, even if only for the attractive looking and timed matches (Georgia home games, maybe Spain home matches), would probably do the most to change the perception of the competition. London and Dublin are still the most important press packs in European rugby. If you put the competition under their noses you'll get more support for other measures that would help too.


To be fair this would probably be the most effective measure. So who's gonna tell Eurosport that the need to show the REC :D
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 17 Dec 2018, 10:26

Regarding scheduling, there has been a big improvement at least in Spain with home games being held on Sundays again in 2019. Of course I don't expect the kind of attendance we saw this year, but it should look good.

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Mon, 17 Dec 2018, 14:35

REC is just 1 tournament organized by powerless and amateur organization called "Rugby Europe". So reforms must start from the very bottom. I can not see Rugby Europe's "balls" but i believe they have it, Probably subatomic size but still better than nothing.

By the way U18 and U20 European cup's must be played through Europe. Remember the reason why home nations + Italy left it? Rugby is greatest sport with shittiest governing system...

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Re: What should change in REC?

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 22 Nov 2019, 21:32

George Macy @rugbyglobal
Rules of promotion are yet to be decided at @rugby_europe
AGM in two weeks. A massive shake-up of the competition is in the cards.
https://twitter.com/rugbyglobal/status/ ... 1358087168

8-team REC with two pools and a final?

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