Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Are you:

For
6
10%
Against
52
90%
 
Total votes : 58
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Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby 4N » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 15:46

It seems somewhat unpopular here. Wanted to see the actual numbers.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby iul » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 16:10

I don't like it. The T1s will just ringfence themselves in anyway, take all the money and, on top of that it will diminish the importance of the RWC.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby 4N » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 16:23

Tend to agree. I could be persuaded with more assurances for T2 but as things stand it mostly benefits T1, particularly the SH.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby grande » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 16:26

I voted "For" with the very large caveat that it's not ringfenced; It must be possible for all teams to be relegated.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Thomas » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 16:29

I voted for, I believe in the concept it has merit but would like to see promotion and relegation just like in the professional competition

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Canalina » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 17:05

Undecided, but more prone to no than to yes

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Tobar » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 17:57

I am undecided but still voted against it. My opinion on the concept would swing drastically depending on the format. Everyone here is giving great ideas on how it could be more favorable for all countries involved and not just Tier 1 but I have very little faith that it will be anything other than just locking out Tier 2/3 countries even more.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Blurandski » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 18:13

Devil's in the detail for me. If it's not ringfenced, and the 6N continue to host 3 tests each November then I'm for it. Otherwise I'm against.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby victorsra » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 18:29

I am undecided but still voted against it. My opinion on the concept would swing drastically depending on the format.


Me too. Ringfenced no, open with promotion-relegation yes, but the $ distribution and the players' release from clubs are other important questions. For exemple, a World League with Fiji getting trouble releasing players from Top14 is a problem anyway.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Silver Fox » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 18:54

I am for.
Initially it hardly changes the current schedules.
It takes away control of the global calendar from the established powers, because to a degree fixtures are predetermined.
In it's proposed format promotion-relegation is very modest but nonetheless it can break the ringfence around t1.
As it inevitably pitches some t1 nations against each other it creates room for extra t1-t2 matches.
It creates a framework for more and more meaningful matches for t2 and even t3 nations (albeit mostly amongst each other).

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby rey200 » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 19:07

No promotion, no party. I still say go for it.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Tobar » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 19:11

Blurandski wrote:Devil's in the detail for me. If it's not ringfenced, and the 6N continue to host 3 tests each November then I'm for it. Otherwise I'm against.


I don’t see how they could guarantee that they will have 3 test matches each November. Speaking of which, why is that one of the main conditions for you?

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby iul » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 19:11

Don't be naive guys, the T1s will be ringfenced. You think if Scotland get relegated they'll be OK with a year of tests against Romania, Spain, Uruguay, Namibia, Germany and Canada(or something like that)? For fuck's sake, the T1s pulled out of the U18 euro because a couple of them got relegated.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby antlat » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 19:38

I am for the World League. Being Australian, watching the same national team three times in June/July is boring. I get jaded by the third test. For me the two test plus one test against another was much better.

The Federation of International Volleyball introduced theIr Nations League this year.

It involved 12 core nations that can't be relegated plus four challenger teams.
The worst challenger team was relegated and replaced by the winner of the Challenger Cup.

I would prefer promotion/relegation based on merit but World Rugby will probably implement a similar model to the Volleyball World League.

One thing is for certain, friendly matches in any sport is dying off. Not surprising when sports need to obtain as much money as possible.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 20:19

I'm FOR: more meaningful top-flight rugby on TV + chance for change of stagnated system

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Blurandski » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 22:11

Tobar wrote:
Blurandski wrote:Devil's in the detail for me. If it's not ringfenced, and the 6N continue to host 3 tests each November then I'm for it. Otherwise I'm against.


I don’t see how they could guarantee that they will have 3 test matches each November. Speaking of which, why is that one of the main conditions for you?


Because they generate masses of money, Ire/Sco/Wal/Eng all make more money for their home tests than any other union for any test. Just make the NH V SH NL games happen in autumn, to ensure no NHvNH T1 matchups, bar the final.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby jservuk » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 22:11

In the current climate it's the best we can hope for.

Diminishing the RWC? Other sports have multiple big time tournaments; each tournament has its own identity.

My problem with RU is it all too much of the same thing. The same teams playing each other year after year, sometimes, twice.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Blurandski » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 22:12

iul wrote:Don't be naive guys, the T1s will be ringfenced. You think if Scotland get relegated they'll be OK with a year of tests against Romania, Spain, Uruguay, Namibia, Germany and Canada(or something like that)? For fuck's sake, the T1s pulled out of the U18 euro because a couple of them got relegated.


There's no way that Scvotland's getting relegated anytime soon, and besides, they'll still have the 6N.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Rugga » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 22:14

12 team league with a play off to stop a team like Scotland swapping with a Uruguay. If the league goes ahead will there be no six nations and rugby championship?

What do people think of having it every for years in between a World Cup and lions tour?

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 22:23

On the surface I’m for, but the biggest issues are 1) the format, and 2) promotion/relegation. The second one is the biggest issue. If the T1’s, most likely the 6N, aren’t willing to put their necks on the line then there is no point to the concept. From the article posted yesterday it sounds like the SANZAAR teams are ok with the idea, but the 6N seem more reluctant. But, if this is a WR idea and they want the TV money the concept may bring they are going to have to play ball. It’s that simple. You want the money? Play by the rules. The thing is if SANZAAR is on board then WR would presumably have the votes. As for whether it devalues the World Cup, I honestly don’t think anyone is going to care enough about the concept. The World Cup is a big event staged in one country. This is just an attempt to give test matches more meaning. I don’t see this becoming bigger or more important than the World Cup.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 22:37

Rugga wrote:12 team league with a play off to stop a team like Scotland swapping with a Uruguay. If the league goes ahead will there be no six nations and rugby championship?

What do people think of having it every for years in between a World Cup and lions tour?


No. Both the 6Ns and RC will continue.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby fullbackace » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 22:39

Undecided, leaning towards no. Even with relegation It'll just be US/Georgia/Italy going up and down. Others are screwed. So one season of good tests followed by a season of bad tests... From the development point of view it's much better if you mix Tier 1 and Tier 2 tests in the same year.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Tobar » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 22:47

Blurandski wrote:
Tobar wrote:
Blurandski wrote:Devil's in the detail for me. If it's not ringfenced, and the 6N continue to host 3 tests each November then I'm for it. Otherwise I'm against.


I don’t see how they could guarantee that they will have 3 test matches each November. Speaking of which, why is that one of the main conditions for you?


Because they generate masses of money, Ire/Sco/Wal/Eng all make more money for their home tests than any other union for any test. Just make the NH V SH NL games happen in autumn, to ensure no NHvNH T1 matchups, bar the final.


Why does it have to still be November though? If all 6 NH teams are guaranteed their 3 matches then how does this fit into that?

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Tobar » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 22:49

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Rugga wrote:12 team league with a play off to stop a team like Scotland swapping with a Uruguay. If the league goes ahead will there be no six nations and rugby championship?

What do people think of having it every for years in between a World Cup and lions tour?


No. Both the 6Ns and RC will continue.


How? Sure you could count 6N/TRC towards World League but then that gets all messed up if anyone outside those 12 enters.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 22:50

I'm in principle for the concept. But the devil will be in the detail. I'm all for promotion/relegation but can understand why some may feel hesitant and that's all to do with money. It could be mitigated as others have suggested with at least for the short term a pro/rel playoff game. Set it up for say the first 5 iterations of the competition and then review with the ultimate goal of making it automatic or expanding the divisions to 16 teams.

What I like about it is what it could mean for essentially every nation outside the 6Ns/RC blocs. It could be trans-formative for the game in pretty much all of the other 27 participating Unions. Especially if the $ stack up. For the 6Ns/RC it could shore up finances and help push the game forward but for the smaller or emerging Unions if the money is right it could drive the game forward at a huge rate which should translate into a far more competitive landscape which for those who are concerned about the RWC would add value to the event as the degree of parity would increase.

I'm keen to see some figures on what its perceived value is from a broadcasters/advertisers perspective and what any potential distribution of that value would look like. In a perfect world all 36 participating Unions would receive an equal share but that's unlikely and even if tiered (which is most likely) as long as that is equitable in itself it should be a net positive for the game internationally.

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