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Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby rey200 » Thu, 07 Feb 2019, 21:25

I didn't say it would improve crowds. I don't know what could improve crowds in South Africa. But the thing is: Europe has more money via TV contracts than Australia and NZ and you don't have issues with time zones etc. I know travelling to and from S.A. is tough, but still much better than flying to AUS/NZ

I've been to Bloemfontein in 2013 and the stadium looked pretty empty, although they had like 15k visitors in the stands. So, yes, the stadiums are too big
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby victorsra » Thu, 07 Feb 2019, 21:39

It is long the travel, but if there is no time zone, you can adapt and even work for next matches, watching videos and etc. The problem is when you don't sleep well.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Thomas » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 08:54

This morning's press:

Six Nations unions in secret talks over new pooled TV rights deal that would scupper plans for World League :

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... eal-would/

The Six Nations unions are in advanced discussions about a secret deal to revolutionise the broadcasting rights of Test rugby in Europe in a move that would scupper controversial plans for a World League, Telegraph Sport can reveal.
It is understood that the six unions have held talks about a proposal to pool the broadcasting rights of all their home fixtures across the year, including the Six Nations and autumn Test series, in order to dramatically increase their value using a Premier League football model.

If agreement is reached it would effectively end plans by World Rugby for a global league, which were further debated at a meeting in Los Angeles last month. That model is based on all the leading Test nations pooling their broadcasting and commercial rights.

The threat of the plan is such that The Telegraph understands that in Los Angeles it was agreed that any independent rights negotiations that had the potential to adversely impact the project would be paused until the unions had received the final proposal and made their decision. This position was also endorsed at the World Rugby's executive committee.

One Six Nations source said: "The chances of making this plan work are much higher because we already have the structures in place and it would not mean agreeing to new competitions and all the issues associated with player welfare and diminishing the value of the World Cup."

The project, which is so secretive it has even been given its own name, reflects the considerable scepticism within the Home Unions about the world league plans.
It is understood not to include the rights for British and Irish Lions tours, which are traditionally sold by the host nation in the southern hemisphere, nor affect the current broadcasting deals for the European Champions Cup, given the involvement of the independently-owned English and French clubs.

It is also unlikely to threaten the Six Nations' publicly-stated desire to keep the Championship on terrestrial television - but could see a mix of pay-TV fixtures for autumn matches, as well as matches involving the Barbarians, women's Test matches and Under-20 fixtures.

Currently, rights to the marquee fixtures, including the Six Nations and autumn Tests, are sold on an individual basis across Europe, but the backers of the project believe that the fragmented nature is currently diminishing the collective value and the move to consolidate those TV rights would significantly increase the return.


My take The World league is on the table only because the game in the Southern hemisphere is slowly becoming financially unviable.....mostly because of poor management and corporate greed.....they (SH) have the best rugby in the world...and can't sell it...

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby iul » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 10:09

They can sell it but they choose to play too little.
Number of guaranteed regular season home games / year:
Top14: 16 (13 in T14 + 3 in euro cups)
Premiership: 16 (11 in premiership + 3 in euro cups + 2 in LVCup, or whatever they call it now)
Super rugby: 8

There's their problem. Playing half as much and whining about having less money.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 10:47

Well, that's the end of the World League proposal. While it sometimes looked like a good project, the final proposoal was a joke (and not only from a t2-standpoint) and now this news instantly kills it.

The biggest losers are NZ.
Maybe it is time for NZ to realize, that they live on (beautiful) islands in the middle of nowhere and they earn millions, because their war dance became so iconic that everyone knows about it.
Their arrogance about their absolutely earned dominance of rugby on the pitch lead them to not make smart decisions. The All Blacks are to a large degree dependant on foreign money and their goal has to be to get rich Asian nations involved in the game and get Australia to the level they once had, to keep the money flowing in to support the level they've reached. Or frankly spoken: they do need Japan middle to long-term.

The 6N on the other hand do whatever they've always done: make everything to keep the status quo. And lets face it, that's a sustainable status quo. They will earn more for their rights (especially Scotland, Wales and Ireland in British TV deals when England is included) and they make sure all their games are exposed properly (Italy). A look at the German rights situation, will mean, that we not only will see the 6N on DAZN, but also the November tests (German DAZN only had Argentinian games if I recall that right). This is a smart move from the 6N.

(in ceterum censeo, that they still constantly f*** up creating higher revenues by not promoting the game properly in the rest of Europe and actively sabotaging European youth rugby).
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 11:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Thomas » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 11:31

(in ceterum censeo, that they still constantly f*** up creating higher revenues by not promoting the game properly in the rest of Europe and actively sabotaging European youth rugby).[/quote]

True enough, destroy Carthage without realising in the long run they may destroy themselves.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 11:53

On a side note, I just realized, that the Sunwolves have a "home" game in Singapore to start their Super Rugby season this saturday.

Nothing says amateur more than let the world-cup-host kick a league off in an empty stadium in Singapore in a World-Cup-year. I mean seriously are they even interested in getting more people interested in Japan?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby victorsra » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 12:35

RugbyLiebe wrote:On a side note, I just realized, that the Sunwolves have a "home" game in Singapore to start their Super Rugby season this saturday.

Nothing says amateur more than let the world-cup-host kick a league off in an empty stadium in Singapore in a World-Cup-year. I mean seriously are they even interested in getting more people interested in Japan?


It is part of the agreement when the Sunwolves entered the league. They play home games in Singapore against South Africans
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 12:41


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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Thomas » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 13:01

irrespective of the agreement it is world cup year after all...

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 13:15

victorsra wrote:It is part of the agreement when the Sunwolves entered the league. They play home games in Singapore against South Africans


I know.

a) stupid from the beginning.

b) Left aside if in general stupid or not, has nothing to do with this schedule. You simply do not start the season of a Japanese team in a world-cup-year in Japan in bloody Singapore where last season 4,862 people turned up in a 55k-stadium. If you want to create more interest that is. If you don't give a f*** you can do that.

c) I just thought, well then they at least gave the Japanese team a home-game for the last round, right? No. They play away the last two regular season games before the World Cup. In South Africa and Argentina. You know why create some more buzz for the World Cup, sell some tickets, let the rest of the national team have a run with autographs and stuff like this. You know basic stuff you do in pro-sport-marketing. But hey, they probably think that they did them a favour, because in the 2018 season it was the last 6 games abroad (blockbusters of 5k each in HK and Singapore included).

d) But then I thought: that's probably a great time for Japanese tv, right? Not sure about Japanese tv habits, but with kickoffs at 0:15 am on a sunday and 7:10 am on a saturday I have my doubt a lot of people will tune in for those games.

This tells me one thing. When setting up the schedule they didn't think a second about Japan. And that's extremely amateurish especially in this very year.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby iul » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 13:18

And then they want other to fuck with their competition to help them :))

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby victorsra » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 13:19

Yes, it is really a bad idea, but one that is going on for some years already.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 13:48

Thomas wrote:This morning's press:

Six Nations unions in secret talks over new pooled TV rights deal that would scupper plans for World League :

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... eal-would/

The Six Nations unions are in advanced discussions about a secret deal to revolutionise the broadcasting rights of Test rugby in Europe in a move that would scupper controversial plans for a World League, Telegraph Sport can reveal.
It is understood that the six unions have held talks about a proposal to pool the broadcasting rights of all their home fixtures across the year, including the Six Nations and autumn Test series, in order to dramatically increase their value using a Premier League football model.

If agreement is reached it would effectively end plans by World Rugby for a global league, which were further debated at a meeting in Los Angeles last month. That model is based on all the leading Test nations pooling their broadcasting and commercial rights.

The threat of the plan is such that The Telegraph understands that in Los Angeles it was agreed that any independent rights negotiations that had the potential to adversely impact the project would be paused until the unions had received the final proposal and made their decision. This position was also endorsed at the World Rugby's executive committee.

One Six Nations source said: "The chances of making this plan work are much higher because we already have the structures in place and it would not mean agreeing to new competitions and all the issues associated with player welfare and diminishing the value of the World Cup."

The project, which is so secretive it has even been given its own name, reflects the considerable scepticism within the Home Unions about the world league plans.
It is understood not to include the rights for British and Irish Lions tours, which are traditionally sold by the host nation in the southern hemisphere, nor affect the current broadcasting deals for the European Champions Cup, given the involvement of the independently-owned English and French clubs.

It is also unlikely to threaten the Six Nations' publicly-stated desire to keep the Championship on terrestrial television - but could see a mix of pay-TV fixtures for autumn matches, as well as matches involving the Barbarians, women's Test matches and Under-20 fixtures.

Currently, rights to the marquee fixtures, including the Six Nations and autumn Tests, are sold on an individual basis across Europe, but the backers of the project believe that the fragmented nature is currently diminishing the collective value and the move to consolidate those TV rights would significantly increase the return.


My take The World league is on the table only because the game in the Southern hemisphere is slowly becoming financially unviable.....mostly because of poor management and corporate greed.....they (SH) have the best rugby in the world...and can't sell it...



Effectively this is bundling up the Autumn Internationals, women's matches and Under 20s 6N together to sell as a more coherent package. That sounds like a good idea to me. I will admit to not being very interested in women's matches but having the under 20s on TV properly would be very good.

The only really opposition to this will be from Wales with regards to their autumn internationals moving to pay TV. But the WRU want that anyway just struggle with the politics of actually doing it. This may provide them with the cover (other people to blame, potentially bigger pot to share).

The question is whether there is really a market for the 6N on, for instance, Spanish or German TV. Or Japanese and American TV. Selling internationals into all of the world's various different markets is definitely a potential growth market for the 6N as a tournament.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 13:52

The World League wasn't a terrible idea, but all the proposals never seemed all that well thought out. Honestly, World Rugby have a choice now as far as I'm concerned. Forget the 6N, let them play in their own little pool. Take a chance on the rest of Europe. The REC is in dire need of someone to come along and professionalise the competition. Take control of the competition, and invest in the rest of Europe. There is no point relying entirely on the 6N to bring money into the game, if they don't want to play then fine, but develop the rest of the game in Europe. Fast track it if you have to, get it to the stage where there is genuine competitor to the 6N. If there are alternate European, Asian and North American destinations for the RC nations to travel to in November you'll start to see the 6N attitude change quick smart.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Thomas » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 14:08

2nd Part of the Article, got from another site not paywall

The Six Nations in the UK is currently shown by both the BBC and ITV as part of a six-year deal signed in 2016. Any new consolidated plan would begin from the start of the 2022 season.

It is understood that those backing the plan see it as both an innovative and revolutionary approach to broadcasting rights from nations who have typically sold their own right themselves and done different deals with different broadcasters in what is an increasingly competitive market.

"This is about the unions' pooling everything and getting a bigger lump sum," said one Irish source.

Another source suggested that the Premier League model of selling a variety of packages, including secondary rights and international rights, could have a significant impact if the six unions agreed to pool their rights. The plan, however, does not include sponsorship or licensing.

The Telegraph revealed in November that there was significant opposition to World League plans within the Six Nations, despite the LA update, which is understood to have included one concrete ­broadcasting offer.

The suggestion that relegation would be introduced to the Six Nations has also been regarded as a non-starter by the Home Unions, despite the inducement that revenues could be increased by up to £10 million for each union if a global deal can be struck.

The World Rugby plan, which was first formulated in September, is a response to financial pressures being felt by unions in both hemispheres, but particularly the south, where the commercial value of the summer tours are significantly lower than the autumn series in Europe.

The backers believe a league in which the top 12 countries play each other over the course of the year, with the Six Nations and Rugby Championship remaining intact but counting towards the ranking for autumn play-offs, would bring greater value to Test rugby.

The plan includes the introduction of Japan and Fiji to the southern hemisphere's Rugby Championship and also puts forward the move to open up the Six Nations, with a play-off between the country who finish bottom of the Championship with the winner of the Europe Rugby Championship.

The proposal will be further debated next month.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby 4N » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 14:38

Thomas wrote:This morning's press:

Six Nations unions in secret talks over new pooled TV rights deal that would scupper plans for World League :

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... eal-would/

The Six Nations unions are in advanced discussions about a secret deal to revolutionise the broadcasting rights of Test rugby in Europe in a move that would scupper controversial plans for a World League, Telegraph Sport can reveal.
It is understood that the six unions have held talks about a proposal to pool the broadcasting rights of all their home fixtures across the year, including the Six Nations and autumn Test series, in order to dramatically increase their value using a Premier League football model.

If agreement is reached it would effectively end plans by World Rugby for a global league, which were further debated at a meeting in Los Angeles last month. That model is based on all the leading Test nations pooling their broadcasting and commercial rights.

The threat of the plan is such that The Telegraph understands that in Los Angeles it was agreed that any independent rights negotiations that had the potential to adversely impact the project would be paused until the unions had received the final proposal and made their decision. This position was also endorsed at the World Rugby's executive committee.

One Six Nations source said: "The chances of making this plan work are much higher because we already have the structures in place and it would not mean agreeing to new competitions and all the issues associated with player welfare and diminishing the value of the World Cup."

The project, which is so secretive it has even been given its own name, reflects the considerable scepticism within the Home Unions about the world league plans.
It is understood not to include the rights for British and Irish Lions tours, which are traditionally sold by the host nation in the southern hemisphere, nor affect the current broadcasting deals for the European Champions Cup, given the involvement of the independently-owned English and French clubs.

It is also unlikely to threaten the Six Nations' publicly-stated desire to keep the Championship on terrestrial television - but could see a mix of pay-TV fixtures for autumn matches, as well as matches involving the Barbarians, women's Test matches and Under-20 fixtures.

Currently, rights to the marquee fixtures, including the Six Nations and autumn Tests, are sold on an individual basis across Europe, but the backers of the project believe that the fragmented nature is currently diminishing the collective value and the move to consolidate those TV rights would significantly increase the return.


My take The World league is on the table only because the game in the Southern hemisphere is slowly becoming financially unviable.....mostly because of poor management and corporate greed.....they (SH) have the best rugby in the world...and can't sell it...


Go 6N go! :thumbup:

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby victorsra » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 15:36

Well, WR might transform the WL in just like a Champions Trophy playoff in late november, adding a bit of money. No revolution, but if they give places to REC and PNC/ARC, it at least improves interest for these tournaments and maybe open more commercial opportunities. Meanwhile it is up to SANZAAR to save TRC.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby 4N » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 15:49

How would that work if the NH pools their 6N+November broadcast revenue? It kills the proposal.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby victorsra » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 16:29

IIRC the WL had only 1 date for july and 5 dates for novemver/early december, that meant 3 free tests + WL SFs and Final
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby 4N » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 16:37

No I think the whole point was that the SH unions were trying to sell exlusive rights for the World League to a streaming service for big money. If the 6N unions aren’t on board for that I don’t see how this delivers the financial windfall the SH were hoping would bail them out.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby victorsra » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 17:07

Hmm... Anyway they need to find a new format to TRC. If they need money of course Japan and USA are the places for expansion...
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby iul » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 17:23

TRC suffers from NZ dominating it so much. It would be better for it if they found a format in which they didn't play it home and away so the other teams would only have to beat them once in a year to have a good chance at winning the competition.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby victorsra » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 17:48

Exactly. The only years they the ABs lost the title were RWC years.

Japan makes a logical 5N, 4 matches (2 home, 2 away).
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby SallesNeto_BR » Thu, 14 Feb 2019, 21:20

TRC could also work as a 5/6 teams competition (including Jap + US/Fiji) + a final match. The last week could also have 3th-place and wooden-spoon playoffs.

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