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Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 02:07

victorsra wrote:An idea for a T2s World League:

- 1st division - 9 nations (8 matches, 4 home and 4 away, split between Feb-Mar, Jul and Nov, with at least 3 weekends available for matches against T1s)

Exemple using the ranking: Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Georgia, USA, Samoa, Spain, Uruguay and Romania;
One relegated every year

- 2nd division - 4 groups of 6 (5 matches) + Final 4 (3 matches)
Group Europe: Russia, Portugal, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland;
Group Americas: Canada, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, Mexico;
Group Asia-Oceania: Hong Kong, Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Papua New Guinea;
Group Africa: Namibia, Kenya, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Tunisia, Algeria;

Final 4 - exemple: Russia, Canada, Hong Kong, Namibia;

One promoted every year.
Each continent choses a relegation-promotion model for its own third division


That would work.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby ihateblazers » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 02:14

victorsra wrote:An idea for a T2s World League:

- 1st division - 9 nations (8 matches, 4 home and 4 away, split between Feb-Mar, Jul and Nov, with at least 3 weekends available for matches against T1s)

Exemple using the ranking: Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Georgia, USA, Samoa, Spain, Uruguay and Romania;
One relegated every year

- 2nd division - 4 groups of 6 (5 matches) + Final 4 (3 matches)
Group Europe: Russia, Portugal, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland;
Group Americas: Canada, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, Mexico;
Group Asia-Oceania: Hong Kong, Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Papua New Guinea;
Group Africa: Namibia, Kenya, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Tunisia, Algeria;

Final 4 - exemple: Russia, Canada, Hong Kong, Namibia;

One promoted every year.
Each continent choses a relegation-promotion model for its own third division


I've thought the same with Div 1 and Div 2. Except I don't think you could remove teams from the regional championships due to RWC qualification, so the world league would have to integrate them and not be standalone unless the system changes.

So I guess working off the original T1 world league proposal the regional champs of T2 would still remain and results would count towards the world league but the July and November tests would be organised so that T2 tests would be incorporated into the league.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Blurandski » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 03:36

The one issue I have with a world league idea is that San Fran seems to be a substantial, sustainable advancement. The T2 sides instead of advocating a revolution should push for an early termination of San Fran in 2025, in return for an even more progressive schedule, with clearly defined opponents (e.g. Rugby Europe v 6N playoffs for finishers (1st 6N vs 1st RE etc), and similar for nn-6N unions).

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 03:55

ihateblazers wrote:
victorsra wrote:An idea for a T2s World League:

- 1st division - 9 nations (8 matches, 4 home and 4 away, split between Feb-Mar, Jul and Nov, with at least 3 weekends available for matches against T1s)

Exemple using the ranking: Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Georgia, USA, Samoa, Spain, Uruguay and Romania;
One relegated every year

- 2nd division - 4 groups of 6 (5 matches) + Final 4 (3 matches)
Group Europe: Russia, Portugal, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland;
Group Americas: Canada, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, Mexico;
Group Asia-Oceania: Hong Kong, Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Papua New Guinea;
Group Africa: Namibia, Kenya, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Tunisia, Algeria;

Final 4 - exemple: Russia, Canada, Hong Kong, Namibia;

One promoted every year.
Each continent choses a relegation-promotion model for its own third division


I've thought the same with Div 1 and Div 2. Except I don't think you could remove teams from the regional championships due to RWC qualification, so the world league would have to integrate them and not be standalone unless the system changes.

So I guess working off the original T1 world league proposal the regional champs of T2 would still remain and results would count towards the world league but the July and November tests would be organised so that T2 tests would be incorporated into the league.

You could simply do a playoff between a 1st division team and his respective regional contender from 2nd division. Easy to arrange.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 05:22

victorsra wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:
victorsra wrote:An idea for a T2s World League:

- 1st division - 9 nations (8 matches, 4 home and 4 away, split between Feb-Mar, Jul and Nov, with at least 3 weekends available for matches against T1s)

Exemple using the ranking: Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Georgia, USA, Samoa, Spain, Uruguay and Romania;
One relegated every year

- 2nd division - 4 groups of 6 (5 matches) + Final 4 (3 matches)
Group Europe: Russia, Portugal, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland;
Group Americas: Canada, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, Mexico;
Group Asia-Oceania: Hong Kong, Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Papua New Guinea;
Group Africa: Namibia, Kenya, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Tunisia, Algeria;

Final 4 - exemple: Russia, Canada, Hong Kong, Namibia;

One promoted every year.
Each continent choses a relegation-promotion model for its own third division


I've thought the same with Div 1 and Div 2. Except I don't think you could remove teams from the regional championships due to RWC qualification, so the world league would have to integrate them and not be standalone unless the system changes.

So I guess working off the original T1 world league proposal the regional champs of T2 would still remain and results would count towards the world league but the July and November tests would be organised so that T2 tests would be incorporated into the league.

You could simply do a playoff between a 1st division team and his respective regional contender from 2nd division. Easy to arrange.


Your idea is great. I don't like uneven groups, but the 4 home and 4 away games schedule has a solid point. Good effort!

I don't like the regional playoff idea though. The best teams should play in the first division - no matter where they come from. But I doubt a cartel-vs-noncartel-playoff would be on the books anyway.
I also think that the regional tournaments could be scrapped altogether for this or even better just have a regional dedicated tournament (like a Euro) every four years. Invite regional cartel nations to it, if they don't want to play in it, that's their thing. The World cup qualification could be made through your suggestion.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Silver Fox » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 12:32

The fact that WR has posted these videos on https://www.world.rugby/video today suggests that something is brewing.
https://www.world.rugby/video/555506
https://www.world.rugby/video/555508

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 13:08

Great find, shit speech.

I mean, Bill Beaumont mentioned the start of Six Nations because whatever and wasn't even able to mention REC starts at the same time and still the bullshit of Sevens being more suited to some countries.

And I'm a bit tired of Tier 1-born coaches being the only accepted voice for Tier 2 countries. Couldn't they find a GRU official, a PI representative, a homeborn coach to speak?

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 13:50

"more of the same"
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 14:01

I’m sick of this sevens being better suited for some countries bull shit also. The videos don’t really say much we haven’t already heard.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 15:00

Sevens being suited for emerging nations is pretty ofensive. It only reveals new countries are not welcome by these people and that they know nothing about rugby outside the cartel. People in the vast majority of countries prefer 15-a-side and the only reason why sevens is realy important is Olympic funding from NOCs, that usualy is the best (easiest) resource where rugby is tiny and doesn't appeal to the local market.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 18:21

But listening to Gold and Jones interviews, two very positive things said are:

- They see T2 rugby needs HOME fixtures;
- They see T2 rugby needs fixtures definined in advance. It is bizarro how in January we can't tell how is the tests calendar (apart from regional championships) for T2 rugby;

With this two things in mind, even not revolutionary, they can improve a lot the current situation for most nations.

In the other hand, as much they see T2 teams need more matches, it is not accurate to say T2 teams have only half a dozen matches. It might be true for RE Trophy, Asian and African teams, but PIs, most RE Championship and ARC teams play already more than this already. Their problem is the lack of vsT1 matches.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby ihateblazers » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 00:40

victorsra wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:
victorsra wrote:An idea for a T2s World League:

- 1st division - 9 nations (8 matches, 4 home and 4 away, split between Feb-Mar, Jul and Nov, with at least 3 weekends available for matches against T1s)

Exemple using the ranking: Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Georgia, USA, Samoa, Spain, Uruguay and Romania;
One relegated every year

- 2nd division - 4 groups of 6 (5 matches) + Final 4 (3 matches)
Group Europe: Russia, Portugal, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland;
Group Americas: Canada, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, Mexico;
Group Asia-Oceania: Hong Kong, Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Papua New Guinea;
Group Africa: Namibia, Kenya, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Tunisia, Algeria;

Final 4 - exemple: Russia, Canada, Hong Kong, Namibia;

One promoted every year.
Each continent choses a relegation-promotion model for its own third division


I've thought the same with Div 1 and Div 2. Except I don't think you could remove teams from the regional championships due to RWC qualification, so the world league would have to integrate them and not be standalone unless the system changes.

So I guess working off the original T1 world league proposal the regional champs of T2 would still remain and results would count towards the world league but the July and November tests would be organised so that T2 tests would be incorporated into the league.

You could simply do a playoff between a 1st division team and his respective regional contender from 2nd division. Easy to arrange.


Yeah if they can find a suitable format for RWC qualification which is fair to all the regional nation's then I'm all for it. With a mixed world league like you are suggesting, T2 will get far higher quality matches annually which will enable to them to improve at a far higher rate and potentially commercialise their international programmes. This would also kill two birds with one stone since Japan and the Pacific Islands currently don't have an annual competition.

I also think that rugby communities in these nation's will be attracted to these fixtures. Whilst in comparison the current annual regional championships don't seem to be all that attractive to the rugby communities or the general public. So at least we can capture one part of the market and with the teams improving by playing the best hopefully that will speed up growth in the greater scheme of things.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby ihateblazers » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 00:46

Silver Fox wrote:The fact that WR has posted these videos on https://www.world.rugby/video today suggests that something is brewing.
https://www.world.rugby/video/555506
https://www.world.rugby/video/555508


Also interesting that Beaumont reconfimed the plans to expand the RWC to 24 teams by 2027.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 02:20

ihateblazers wrote:
Silver Fox wrote:The fact that WR has posted these videos on https://www.world.rugby/video today suggests that something is brewing.
https://www.world.rugby/video/555506
https://www.world.rugby/video/555508


Also interesting that Beaumont reconfimed the plans to expand the RWC to 24 teams by 2027.


That certainly should be achievable. Spain and Romania of course. And 2 from Belgium, Portugal, Germany, Brazil, Algeria, Kenya, Hong Kong.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 13:37

Not sure which is the right thread for this, so please feel free to repost it.

2020 Nations Cup will be in Uruguay. Uruguay will play Spain, Romania and Russia in July. It is a 6 team cross pool format, which I like. So those 3 European teams will play against 2 other opponents ( still to be decided).

https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/it ... 0127155154

Also, in November, Uruguay will play Romania, Italy and Samoa, and of course the Americas Rugby Championship in Aug/Sep.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 06:19

Chester-Donnelly wrote:Not sure which is the right thread for this, so please feel free to repost it.

2020 Nations Cup will be in Uruguay. Uruguay will play Spain, Romania and Russia in July. It is a 6 team cross pool format, which I like. So those 3 European teams will play against 2 other opponents ( still to be decided).

https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/it ... 0127155154

Also, in November, Uruguay will play Romania, Italy and Samoa, and of course the Americas Rugby Championship in Aug/Sep.


Hopefully the other two teams are Brazil and Chile/Namibia or maybe even Hong Kong.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 06:23

Doing something simple as, you know, advertising that T2/3 games are on from WR would help things.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 09:55

thatrugbyguy wrote:Doing something simple as, you know, advertising that T2/3 games are on from WR would help things.


Captain Obvious has never been a guest in World Rugby headquarters.

Edit: I think it is really time, that we take this more to Social Media. Post on Facebook, Twitter etc. The more we do that, the more likely this bullshit is going to change.
Imagine FIFA would promote a private organized tournament ahead of any of their offical competitions...
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 10:10

With the exception of the occasional video about some developing country, it's shocking to me how little they go about promoting things. We've got the REC coming up and you wouldn't know it was on unless you were already familiar with its scheduling. Like, it take 2 mins to write something on Facebook or Twitter.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 11:08

thatrugbyguy wrote:With the exception of the occasional video about some developing country, it's shocking to me how little they go about promoting things. We've got the REC coming up and you wouldn't know it was on unless you were already familiar with its scheduling. Like, it take 2 mins to write something on Facebook or Twitter.


The World Rugby Nations Cup should be the jewel in the crowd of tier 2 international rugby. Countries should be bidding for it. I'm sure hardly anyone knows about it.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 11:11

RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:Doing something simple as, you know, advertising that T2/3 games are on from WR would help things.


Captain Obvious has never been a guest in World Rugby headquarters.

Edit: I think it is really time, that we take this more to Social Media. Post on Facebook, Twitter etc. The more we do that, the more likely this bullshit is going to change.
Imagine FIFA would promote a private organized tournament ahead of any of their offical competitions...

Count on me.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 11:49

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:With the exception of the occasional video about some developing country, it's shocking to me how little they go about promoting things. We've got the REC coming up and you wouldn't know it was on unless you were already familiar with its scheduling. Like, it take 2 mins to write something on Facebook or Twitter.


The World Rugby Nations Cup should be the jewel in the crowd of tier 2 international rugby. Countries should be bidding for it. I'm sure hardly anyone knows about it.


There are only 3 pool games with no playoffs though and the top T2 nation's don't even participate. Really hard for it to be appealing. Hong Kong hosts the same thing in November.

It's basically for T2 nations who don't get T1 tests in July and can't seem to arrange games vs other T2 instead. Whether that is World Rugby's fault or the individual unions I don't know. It's a symbol of why there desperately needs to be some type of framework to organise t2 v t2 tests in order for them to get dependable home tests in July or November. Once we get that things like the nation's cup become obsolete and that's a good thing.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 12:12


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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 12:27

Quick, someone forward Victor's idea to World rugby :D

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 13:11

ihateblazers wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:With the exception of the occasional video about some developing country, it's shocking to me how little they go about promoting things. We've got the REC coming up and you wouldn't know it was on unless you were already familiar with its scheduling. Like, it take 2 mins to write something on Facebook or Twitter.


The World Rugby Nations Cup should be the jewel in the crowd of tier 2 international rugby. Countries should be bidding for it. I'm sure hardly anyone knows about it.


There are only 3 pool games with no playoffs though and the top T2 nation's don't even participate. Really hard for it to be appealing. Hong Kong hosts the same thing in November.

It's basically for T2 nations who don't get T1 tests in July and can't seem to arrange games vs other T2 instead. Whether that is World Rugby's fault or the individual unions I don't know. It's a symbol of why there desperately needs to be some type of framework to organise t2 v t2 tests in order for them to get dependable home tests in July or November. Once we get that things like the nation's cup become obsolete and that's a good thing.


Every team plays 3 games in July. That's enough. Nations Cup is awesome. Uruguay vs three of the best tier 2 European teams, what's not to love? Can't wait to see who the other teams are. I'm guessing Argentina XV and Brazil.

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