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Your feelings on the World League proposal

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For
22
47%
Against
11
23%
Undecided
14
30%
 
Total votes : 47
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby NaBUru38 » Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 15:13

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 505nj.html

Pichot wants the top 12-ranked countries to contest an annual tournament hosted on an alternating basis in the northern and southern hemispheres.

The teams would be split into four groups of three and the tournament would be played over five dates, with three for pool matches and two dates for the semi-finals and final. A different country would host each pool.


https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/internat ... tory.shtml

Il est d’ailleurs prévu que les demies et la finale soient organisées sur un seul et même lieu. Cette Ligue mondiale se déroulerait tour à tour dans l’hémisphère Nord puis l’hémisphère Sud.

L’idée serait aussi que les quatre poules soient réparties dans plusieurs pays différents. Prenons un exemple : la France pourrait accueillir le groupe A, l’Angleterre le groupe B, l’Italie le groupe C et l’Irlande le groupe D.


That part of the proposal is the one that worries me most.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby NaBUru38 » Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 15:26

NaBUru38 wrote:If World Rugby wants an annual tier 1 tournament, it must prevent neutral venues and intra-continental matches.

I'd suggest a double six-pack tournament.

Group World 1: New Zealand, Argentina, Fiji.
Group World 2: Australia, South Africa, Japan.

Group Europe 1: France, Ireland, Scotland.
Group Europe 2: England, Wales, Italy.

World 1 teams play Europe 1 teams, and World 2 teams play Europe 2 teams.

Europe hosts the tournament every other edition.


My proposal still stands.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 15:40

NaBUru38 wrote:https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/world-league-proposal-to-shake-up-test-rugby-20180924-p505nj.html


https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/internat ... tory.shtml


Both articles are from september. I might be wrong, but I have the feeling that is not the status quo. Especially not what Pichot would say now. Do we actually have any recent proposals. Don't we absolutely fish in muddy waters here? But maybe I've missed something. If so somebody please enlighten me.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 19:54

Blurandski wrote:

Yes, that is what I said, but the whole point of the NL is that the TV deal gets shared, so an uplift in TV revenue could very easily more than cover the money lost from not hosting, due to how little the SH unions make from hosting games.

Do you think the World Champions would allow that? Hahahahaha. Hosting matches is also about prestige.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Blurandski » Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 20:58

TheStroBro wrote:
Blurandski wrote:

Yes, that is what I said, but the whole point of the NL is that the TV deal gets shared, so an uplift in TV revenue could very easily more than cover the money lost from not hosting, due to how little the SH unions make from hosting games.

Do you think the World Champions would allow that? Hahahahaha. Hosting matches is also about prestige.


The SH nations would still host the rugby championship games, and more generally the SH Unions would whore themselves out for a pack of digestives if it gave them more money.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 22:29

I'm sure the RFU would whore itself plenty.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Blurandski » Thu, 20 Dec 2018, 01:35

TheStroBro wrote:I'm sure the RFU would whore itself plenty.


Although there have been rumblings about changing it, Twickenham still has no name sponsor, despite plenty of offers.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Tobar » Thu, 20 Dec 2018, 02:34

Blurandski wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:I'm sure the RFU would whore itself plenty.


Although there have been rumblings about changing it, Twickenham still has no name sponsor, despite plenty of offers.


They should accept the sponsorship now before they end up having to accept something significantly less....

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 20 Dec 2018, 11:59

At the end of the day these proposals have been so vague all the poll and these posts does is show who is generally optimistic and trusts Pichot's intentions and who is pessimistic and thinks the T1's will protect their own at all costs.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Tobar » Thu, 20 Dec 2018, 15:06

It's very vague. I think my view on this proposal is also impacted by ideas that other people have mentioned here on this site which will almost definitely not be the format that the league takes on. So I like it if it's the best case scenario and hate it if it's the worst.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby antlat » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 01:17

World Rugby's proposals for global 12-team league met with resistance
Gain Mairs

November 23 2018 8:30 AM


There is mounting opposition within the Six Nations to World Rugby’s plan to introduce a league involving 12 teams from the northern and southern hemispheres, The Daily Telegraph understands.

World Rugby provided details of the proposed tournament during meetings in Dublin last week and, although the project remains at an exploratory stage, there appears to be little enthusiasm for it, particularly in the four home unions.

One source indicated that “many hurdles” would have to be overcome for talks to even reach a starting point. Another claimed that there was “little hope” of an agreement being reached, given the complexity of merging the international seasons of both hemispheres into one competition.

World Rugby has established a professional game committee, made up of representatives from Tier One and Tier Two nations, to drive the project, which is being championed by Agustin Pichot, the World Rugby vice-chairman. Pichot warned in an interview with The Telegraph that significant change was required for the world game to flourish because of growing financial problems for unions and clubs.

The presentations given to unions last week were based around the top 12 sides in the world rankings being split into pools, hosted in alternate years by the northern and southern hemispheres, with three pool games for each team, followed by semi-finals and a final.

Both the Six Nations and Rugby Championship would continue in their present forms but would form part of the global league, while the summer tours would be replaced by northern hemisphere sides facing up to three different southern hemisphere opponents.

All participants would supposedly benefit by sharing revenues and aggregating broadcasting and sponsorship rights. But one source said that the European unions remained to be convinced of its merits.

“There are lots of questions to be answered and doubts if it will ever get off the ground,” said the source.

Player welfare appears to be a central concern, and while World Rugby insists that the new competition could be played within the framework of last year’s San Francisco agreement on the new global calendar from 2020, others doubt that is possible.

“They are talking about five weeks including a semi-final and final, and we don’t have five weeks,” said one source.

Others are concerned that using summer tours as development tours in a World Cup year would have to be ditched because of the need to pick up points for the global league. It would also limit the ability of head coaches to rotate players during autumn Tests.

There is also a fear that the tournament would dilute the impact and interest in the World Cup, especially as 90 per cent of the revenue is invested in the global game by World Rugby.

It is understood that the challenge of selling tickets for the semi-finals and final at short notice has also been raised, given that sales are traditionally strong for the northern hemisphere autumn Tests.

World Rugby, however, last night insisted that there remained a “collective desire” to explore new tournament models in a bid to increase revenues.

“World Rugby, in full collaboration with its unions, continues to explore potential competition models within the San Francisco framework that have the potential to significantly enhance the meaning, attractiveness and value of international rugby, while promoting player welfare,” said a spokesman.

“This feasibility project has been mandated by the executive committee and professional game committee comprising Six Nations, SANZAAR, Fiji and Japan chief executive officers, and, while no decisions have been made, there is a collective desire and momentum to fully understand what might be achievable.”

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 58214.html

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 02:15

Tobar wrote:It's very vague. I think my view on this proposal is also impacted by ideas that other people have mentioned here on this site which will almost definitely not be the format that the league takes on. So I like it if it's the best case scenario and hate it if it's the worst.


In theory I'm supportive of the concept but we need to see a lot more detail before anything else. It has to be equitable to all participants and the financials need to be right.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 10:12

The concept is super problematic when you take into account the 6N and RC. Soccer didn't have that issue with the Nations League, UEFA simply replaced what were a series of Friendlies into something far more meaningful, even if their concept is far more convoluted and difficult to follow. The concept is actually far more linear for rugby. The hurdle is the existing competitions. I think there has to be actually something on offer. Perhaps that's where the World Cup can come into play. What if the League is used to determine seedings for the next World Cup? What if the top 12 teams play each other over a two year period for the top 8 seedings? Or, maybe go one steps further and have them be qualifiers?

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 10:33

thatrugbyguy wrote:Or, maybe go one steps further and have them be qualifiers?


That's actually a great idea. Also would work perfectly with a 24 team world cup, as with 4 teams in 6 groups, even a third place might qualify your for an Eighth-Final (strange this word doesn't really exist in English), so you don't need to give the 3rd placed team the chance of an auto-qualifier to keep them interested.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 13:45, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 11:32

Yeah, there isn't really a word in English for the Eighth Final, we just tend to say Round of 16.

The format could be this:

2020: First Stage - 4 groups of 3 (Home and Away = 4 games each team)
Division 1 - 8 qualifiers, 4 teams to playoffs
Division 2 - 4 qualifiers, 4 teams to playoffs
Division 3 - 4 teams to playoffs

2021: Playoffs - 3 groups of 4 (Home and Away = 6 games each team)
Group 1 - 2 qualifiers, 1 team to Repechage
Group 2 - 2 qualifiers, 1 team to Repechage
Group 3 - 2 qualifiers, 1 team to Repechage

2022: Repechage - 2 Groups of 4 (Tournament in November)
3 Playoffs teams
5 Regional Qualifiers - 1 x Asia, 1 x Africa, 1 v Americas, 1 x Europe, 1 x Oceana

The Repechage would be the path for teams ranked outside the 3 Divisions. You would essentially run the smaller regional tournaments to determine who qualifies for the Repechage.

Thats honestly the only way I can see this concept working. It would give more meaning to the test schedule whilst not doing any harm to the integrity of the world cup. Plus it's merit based.
Last edited by thatrugbyguy on Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 13:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby victorsra » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 12:44

I think there is an error in your 2021
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 12:47

Ah yes, I can't be bothered reworking it now but in essence I think it's workable.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 13:00

With my double six-pack tournament format, each team plays just 3 test matches. If those are held in July, then the playoffs could be played in November of the same year.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 13:47

thatrugbyguy wrote:Yeah, there isn't really a word in English for the Eighth Final, we just tend to say Round of 16.

The format could be this:

2020: First Stage - 4 groups of 3 (Home and Away = 4 games each team)
Division 1 - 8 qualifiers, 4 teams to playoffs [...]


Your format has a massive problem that instantly kills it.
There may be 4 games for each team, but it takes 6 weeks to play them in an uneven group of 3.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby victorsra » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 14:28

What I understand from Pichot's idea is that de odd number of teams in each group is to allow a couple of free dates for each team. It isn't a fault, it is a choice in this case.
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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Tobar » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 15:25

There should be more qualifying matches for the World Cup though of course the countries that have automatic qualification (basically every tier 1 country) would be up in arms over the idea, claiming that the RWC just wouldn’t be the same without X country.

Of course that’s a cop out excuse and any Tier 1 country should enter relatively easily. The earlier you win the better your seeding. Matches could be determined by 6N and RC with the last place teams forced to play against lower ranked teams in the region. So Italy would likely move on from 6N not being qualified and have to play against Georgia, Romania, Spain, etc. That would make the matches much more fun imo.

As for RC teams, I suppose they could play off against Asia and Americas teams to determine next spot. It would likely end up being Argentina, Australia or South Africa (in that order) so playing against the Americas would make some sense.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 23:33

RugbyLiebe wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:
Your format has a massive problem that instantly kills it.
There may be 4 games for each team, but it takes 6 weeks to play them in an uneven group of 3.


I don't really see the issue, play 3 rounds in July and then 3 rounds in November. Example:

July
New Zealand v Scotland
Fiji v Scotland
New Zealand v Fiji

November
Scotland v New Zealand
Scotland v Fiji
Fiji v New Zealand

That gives all teams enough space to schedule other matches into the calendar to fill in their bye week.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 27 Dec 2018, 04:37


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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby Silver Fox » Thu, 27 Dec 2018, 09:35

TheStroBro wrote:So much for the world league lol...https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/int ... with-wales

So much for the agreed 2020-2031 global calendar you mean.
In the announcement of the global calendar it was specifically stated that the 3 match single opponent tours will stop and that SH nations will host different opponents to make the program more diverse and thus more attractive.
I prefer to not believe the article on that point. It's probably down to a misinterpretation of the reporter. It could very well be that Wales will visit New Zealand in 2020 but the reporter automatically assumed that it will be for 3 tests.

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Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 28 Dec 2018, 01:41

Silver Fox wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:So much for the world league lol...https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/int ... with-wales

So much for the agreed 2020-2031 global calendar you mean.
In the announcement of the global calendar it was specifically stated that the 3 match single opponent tours will stop and that SH nations will host different opponents to make the program more diverse and thus more attractive.
I prefer to not believe the article on that point. It's probably down to a misinterpretation of the reporter. It could very well be that Wales will visit New Zealand in 2020 but the reporter automatically assumed that it will be for 3 tests.

Well we threw out the calendar for this world league crap a few months ago...

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