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Rugby World Cup 2019

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby sjbret » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 15:42

These quarterfinals bothered me a bit because they were the result of the decision to cancel the matches last week.
We immediately saw the difference between the teams who played only three matches, with one more rest week and those who played four, with fatigue following shocks and thus one less rest week.
OK, England was better than Australia, OK All Blacks were better than Ireland, but those 40+ points are too high and mostly reflect a lack of sporting fairness. And even France, though particularly weak, almost beat Wales, which was physically dying.
Sergio Parisse, who could not play NZ with Italy, was then wondering what would think the opponents of the English and French rested teams (and NZ’s obviously). We saw.
My only sunbeam came from the first half of Japan, which did better than to resist the Springboks before collapsing, with 5 days less rest, but this is there only a timing question.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Figaro » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 19:28

sjbret wrote:These quarterfinals bothered me a bit because they were the result of the decision to cancel the matches last week.
We immediately saw the difference between the teams who played only three matches, with one more rest week and those who played four, with fatigue following shocks and thus one less rest week.
OK, England was better than Australia, OK All Blacks were better than Ireland, but those 40+ points are too high and mostly reflect a lack of sporting fairness. And even France, though particularly weak, almost beat Wales, which was physically dying.
Sergio Parisse, who could not play NZ with Italy, was then wondering what would think the opponents of the English and French rested teams (and NZ’s obviously). We saw.
My only sunbeam came from the first half of Japan, which did better than to resist the Springboks before collapsing, with 5 days less rest, but this is there only a timing question.


Im not sure. Most of the Wales team that started against France didn't start against Uruguay and many key players didn't play so would have had the same rest as the French players. Mind you some have played a lot and are showing it. Parkes has played every minute of the WC and is looking like it

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby amz » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 19:41

Figaro wrote:Im not sure. Most of the Wales team that started against France didn't start against Uruguay and many key players didn't play so would have had the same rest as the French players. Mind you some have played a lot and are showing it. Parkes has played every minute of the WC and is looking like it


I wonder if Biggar is OK after that concussion, he made some odd decisions vs France
Last edited by amz on Tue, 22 Oct 2019, 06:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Edgar » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 19:52

New Zealand, England, South Africa, Wales into the semi-finals. How's that for progress!

Switch SA for Transvaal and this could be the Victorian era again. :roll:

Thankfully we had Japan in the quarters. That was the main positive. It will be very interesting to see if they can keep this up over the next few years and perhaps eve build on it . . .

amz wrote:I saw some NZ news site claiming Japan wants back in Super Rugby too or it is wanted back, it wasn't very clear.


I suspect if anyone wants Japan back in Super Rugby it may well be World Rugby, who backed their inclusion in the first place in order to help prepare them for this World Cup. Unfortunately it was not successful. & from their own perspective the travel demands were nightmarish. Meanwhile Japan is preparing to set up its own professional league, so will it want a team in another?

Rapid Rugby to the rescue? An independent league across the Pacific-South East Asia region seems like the perfect fit, combining the abundant physical talent of the former with the financial potential of the latter. Oviously that would be the place for another Japanese venture, rather than a Southern Hemisphere competition already spanning three continents.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 21:59

Edgar wrote:New Zealand, England, South Africa, Wales into the semi-finals. How's that for progress!

Switch SA for Transvaal and this could be the Victorian era again. :roll:

Thankfully we had Japan in the quarters. That was the main positive. It will be very interesting to see if they can keep this up over the next few years and perhaps eve build on it . . .

amz wrote:I saw some NZ news site claiming Japan wants back in Super Rugby too or it is wanted back, it wasn't very clear.


I suspect if anyone wants Japan back in Super Rugby it may well be World Rugby, who backed their inclusion in the first place in order to help prepare them for this World Cup. Unfortunately it was not successful. & from their own perspective the travel demands were nightmarish. Meanwhile Japan is preparing to set up its own professional league, so will it want a team in another?

Rapid Rugby to the rescue? An independent league across the Pacific-South East Asia region seems like the perfect fit, combining the abundant physical talent of the former with the financial potential of the latter. Oviously that would be the place for another Japanese venture, rather than a Southern Hemisphere competition already spanning three continents.



Uruguays victory over Fiji is positive

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Tue, 22 Oct 2019, 03:11

Also the margins of scores decreased again if I'm not mistaken.

Though we should look at teams individually if anything. Russia technically weren't supposed to be there, but cheating from the other Euro sides got them there (and rightfully so), and they played respectable rugby for what it was worth. Samoa took a big step back, and their union is a shit-show so I'm not shocked. Japan are basically a Tier 1.5 side like the Italians, Tonga took a step back a bit as well, Fiji mentally lost the plot, Uruguay took a big step forward, the USA maybe improved a bit but their fruits of labor are yet to be realized, Namibia improved a bit, Georgia's golden age is done, and Canada's dark ages continue.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 22 Oct 2019, 06:22

World Rugby enraged in 2018 with Iordachescu appointment by RE (made with months before the game).
Now they put:
- a Saffa in a Wales - France game: the winner is playing SA
- a Welshman in a NZ - England: the winner is playing Wales

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 22 Oct 2019, 13:12

I don't think you can blame the rest periods for the QF results. France should have won, it was due to one players moment of insanity that cost them the game. And Australia were frankly ordinary from day one of the tournament. It wouldn't have mattered if England had an extra week rest or not, the Wallabies have been inconsistent for years now.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Figaro » Tue, 22 Oct 2019, 16:53

thatrugbyguy wrote:I don't think you can blame the rest periods for the QF results. France should have won, it was due to one players moment of insanity that cost them the game. And Australia were frankly ordinary from day one of the tournament. It wouldn't have mattered if England had an extra week rest or not, the Wallabies have been inconsistent for years now.


You could also blame Ntamack's poor goal kicking. He missed at least two shots at goal, in a game they lost by one point.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Edgar » Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 09:07

snapper37 wrote:
Edgar wrote:New Zealand, England, South Africa, Wales into the semi-finals. How's that for progress!

Switch SA for Transvaal and this could be the Victorian era again. :roll:

Thankfully we had Japan in the quarters. That was the main positive. It will be very interesting to see if they can keep this up over the next few years and perhaps eve build on it . . .

amz wrote:I saw some NZ news site claiming Japan wants back in Super Rugby too or it is wanted back, it wasn't very clear.


I suspect if anyone wants Japan back in Super Rugby it may well be World Rugby, who backed their inclusion in the first place in order to help prepare them for this World Cup. Unfortunately it was not successful. & from their own perspective the travel demands were nightmarish. Meanwhile Japan is preparing to set up its own professional league, so will it want a team in another?

Rapid Rugby to the rescue? An independent league across the Pacific-South East Asia region seems like the perfect fit, combining the abundant physical talent of the former with the financial potential of the latter. Oviously that would be the place for another Japanese venture, rather than a Southern Hemisphere competition already spanning three continents.



Uruguays victory over Fiji is positive


Sure, I wrote the main positive. But Uruguay's victory certainly broke up the monotony of the early stages. They've obviously benefited from their close association with Argentina and regular exposure to second tier rugby through ARC and the Nations Cup, etc. Russia and Namibia did not disgrace themselves either.

Also the margins of scores decreased again if I'm not mistaken.


Tier 1 v tier 2 margins were slightly down on the last tournament at 26 in the group stages, which is also a little below the tournament average, but still significantly higher than the 2nd World Cup in 1991, when it was just 20 points. Not too much to get excited about there.

More stats here on Maverick:

A curious trend emerged in the quarter-finals of the 2019 Rugby World Cup. The four fixtures produced both one of the closest ever in terms of points difference (Wales vs France with one point) and the second-biggest (New Zealand vs Ireland with 32 points, behind only New Zealand’s 62-13 hammering of France in 2015).

Both South Africa’s win over Japan and England’s over Australia made it into the top 10 of the largest ever wins in the QFs of a Rugby World Cup.

While it made little difference to the overall for and against averages, the difference is especially notable since the total average points scored in the pool stages (93) is the lowest it has been since 1995 (63).

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article ... e-numbers/

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Silver Fox » Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 10:11

Edgar wrote:Tier 1 v tier 2 margins were slightly down on the last tournament at 26 in the group stages, which is also a little below the tournament average, but still significantly higher than the 2nd World Cup in 1991, when it was just 20 points. Not too much to get excited about there.

You keep digging up stats from ancient history.
If it shows anything then it is that at the end of the amateur era margins were also narrowing.
But then in 1995 professionalism kicked in and the nations that were able to setup or join professional leagues sprinted away making the gap bigger again.
Given the disparity in possibilities catching up was an even bigger task this time for the smaller nations.

Thing is that you can't compare trends and results from the amateur and the professional era's.

Another thing is that rugby has a way of exagerating the scoreline if teams are not of equal strength.
The trend is also that this effect, due to (minor) law changes aimed at increasing ball-in-play time and promoting the offloading and running game, is becoming bigger in recent time with higher scorelines, also between T1 nations.
Honoustly, I don't see much difference in scoring margins in most T1-T2 games compared to T1-T1 games in this World Cup (what the Maverick statistic also hint at).

Of course after the World Cup is over and the difference in preparation-time is again there, generally the margins will increase again.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 11:47

Silver Fox wrote:
Edgar wrote:Tier 1 v tier 2 margins were slightly down on the last tournament at 26 in the group stages, which is also a little below the tournament average, but still significantly higher than the 2nd World Cup in 1991, when it was just 20 points. Not too much to get excited about there.

You keep digging up stats from ancient history.
If it shows anything then it is that at the end of the amateur era margins were also narrowing.
But then in 1995 professionalism kicked in and the nations that were able to setup or join professional leagues sprinted away making the gap bigger again.
Given the disparity in possibilities catching up was an even bigger task this time for the smaller nations.

Thing is that you can't compare trends and results from the amateur and the professional era's.

Another thing is that rugby has a way of exagerating the scoreline if teams are not of equal strength.
The trend is also that this effect, due to (minor) law changes aimed at increasing ball-in-play time and promoting the offloading and running game, is becoming bigger in recent time with higher scorelines, also between T1 nations.
Honoustly, I don't see much difference in scoring margins in most T1-T2 games compared to T1-T1 games in this World Cup (what the Maverick statistic also hint at).

Of course after the World Cup is over and the difference in preparation-time is again there, generally the margins will increase again.


Thought the exact same thing, but wouldn't have come up with a spot on post like yours. :thumbup:
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 12:59

This about sums up Australian Rugby at the moment:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 533jz.html

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Thomas » Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 17:08

thatrugbyguy wrote:This about sums up Australian Rugby at the moment:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 533jz.html
time for a clean sweep of the top. A scorched policy of senior management

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Thomas » Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 17:11

Silver Fox explains it very succinctly.

The other angle is the inclusion of the sport in the Olympics that gave the kick the sport needed in small nations particularly in Latin America and revamped the programs which were prior to the announcement, mediocre at best.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Edgar » Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 09:11

Good comments from the Samoan Observer:

NZ Rugby, the islands, and glass houses

Impey laid a lot of the blame for the poor performances of Pacific Island nations at the World Cup on World Rugby.

“They’re being starved of the necessary resources and opportunities to play the game and improve,” he said.

Few would argue against this; the Manu Samoa for example played just five tests against Tier One nations during the cycle between the 2015 and 2019 tournaments.


https://www.samoaobserver.ws/category/c ... kcszpXYHYo

As far as points differentials per tier 2 team in the group stages went:

Japan had easily their best tournament, finishing in the positive for the first time with plus 53. Their best showing previously had been minus two in 2015, while their worst effort was minus 197 in 1995.

Fiji had their second best tournament after 1999, finishing on plus 2. In 1999 they were plus 56, but at every other tournament they have finished in the negative, with a low point of minus 108 in 2011. They did not qualify in 1995.

Samoa had their second worst tournament after 2007, finishing on minus 70. In 2007 they were minus 74. Samoa were minus 55 four years ago, but have finished in the positive on every other occasion, with a high point of plus 42 in 2011. They were not invited to the inaugural event.

Tonga had their third best tournament despite finishing on minus 38. They have never finished in the positive. Their best effort was minus 7 in 2007, while their worst was minus 132 in 2003. They did not qualify in 1991.

USA had their second worst showing with minus 104, merely the slightest improvement on 2015 when they finished on minus 106. They have yet to finish in the positive, with a best showing of minus 39 in 2003. They did not qualify in 1995.

Canada had easily their worst tournament to date with a minus 163 differential. They have finished in the positive on two occasions, with a best effort of plus 32 in 1999. Their previous worst was minus 86 in 2011.

Georgia had their second best showing despite finishing on minus 57. They have never finished in the positive since first qualifying in 2003, reaching a high point with minus 42 in 2007 and a low of minus 154 on debut.

Romania did not qualify this year. They also have never finished with a positive differential, peaking at minus 31 in 1991 and reaching a low point of minus 127 in 2003.

Team projections:

Fiji: -45, -36, DNQ, +56, -16, -22, -108, -17, +2
Samoa: DNQ, +20, +8, +25, +21, -74, +42, -55, -70
Tonga: -69, DNQ, -46, -124, -132, -7, -18, -60, -38
Japan: -75, -10, -197, -104, -84, -146, -115, -2, +53
USA: -60, -89, DNQ, -83, -39, -81, -84, -106, -104
Canada: -37, +12, -27, +32, -81, -69, -86, -73, -163
Georgia: DNQ, DNQ, DNQ, DNQ, -154, -61, -42, -70, -57
Romania: -41, -33, -83, -76, -127, -121, -125, -69, DNQ

NB: Three tier 2 nations finished in the positive in 1999. Both this year and in 1991 that figure was two, while in 1995, 2003 and 2011 it was one. No 2nd tier team managed a positive differential at the 1987, 2007 and 2015 installments. This is a little surprising, given the success of individual teams at those particular editions.

Also available in article form: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/10/25/s ... p-margins/

Meanwhile . . .

3 1/4 finals without losing 1:

S Fitzpatrick (NZ), 1987-1995
I Jones (NZ), 1991-99
J du Randt (SA), 1995-2007
C Dominici (Fra), 1999-2007
R Ibanez (Fra), 1999-2007
I Harinordoquy (Fra), 2003-11
K Mealamu (NZ), 2003-15
K Read (NZ), 2011-2019
S Whitelock (NZ), 2011-2019
S Williams (NZ), 2011-2019


3 1/4 finals without winning 1:

N Francis (Ire), 1987-95
B Mullin (Ire), 1987-95
K Logan (Sco), 1995-2003
R Best (Ire), 2011-19
K Earls (Ire), 2011-19
C Healy (Ire), 2011-19
R Kearney (Ire), 2011-19

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby novac » Fri, 25 Oct 2019, 12:37

8 Teams have been in the semifinals until now.
New Zealand has won 4 (1987, 1995, 2011, 2015) and lost 3 (1991, 1999, 2003).
Australia has won 4 (1991, 1999, 2003, 2015) and lost 2 (1987, 2011).
France has won 3 (1987, 1999, 2011) and lost 3 (1995, 2003, 2007).
England has won 3 (1991, 2003, 2007) and lost 1 (1995).
South Africa has won 2 (1995, 2007) and lost 2 (1999, 2015).
Wales lost 2 (1987, 2011).
Argentina lost 2 (2007, 2015).
Scotland lost 1 (1991).
Interesting is that England and New Zealand have met three times before at RWC (1991, 1995, 1999) and all three encounters have been won by All Blacks.
Wales and South Africa have met two times before at RWC (2011, 2015) and both encounters have been won by Springboks.
Will we have a final New Zealand - South Africa? After this weekend we will know.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 26 Oct 2019, 08:16

England with a blistering start. 7-0.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Vova12 » Sat, 26 Oct 2019, 08:50

Zealand defended all first half!
Image

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 26 Oct 2019, 08:53

New Zealand haven't turned up to play. 10-0 England at halftime. Last time NZ didn't score points in the first have was 7 years ago.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 26 Oct 2019, 09:12

15-0 now to England.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 26 Oct 2019, 09:15

Cancel that, one of the strangest knock on calls I've seen.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Natal » Sat, 26 Oct 2019, 09:20

Pretty clear knock on. But All Blacks deserve none of that luck. They’ve been woeful.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 26 Oct 2019, 09:20

13-0 now. Penalty to England.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019

Postby Natal » Sat, 26 Oct 2019, 09:31

As a Kiwi, I can only laugh. We are so lucky to be in this game.

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