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Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

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Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby rugbylineout » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 06:16

No matter which way you cut it, Italy looked poised for another last place finish as they don't really have any soft matches, with none of their opponents looking particularly vulnerable. The only possible question mark for Italy is France, but not if they end up beating Wales today. While it would appear definite that Georgia will not be admitted to the Six Nations for "commercial" and "historical" reasons, it sure must be hard for them to swallow, especially if they as expected dominate the Tier 2 Six Nations again this year. Best of luck Georgia! therugbylineout.com

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby victorsra » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 06:52

2 things:

1 - Italy has beaten Georgia in 2018;
2 - The World League is making them talk about promotion/relegation

Therefore it doesn't matter what Italy does in the 2019 6N. In fact, it never matters. They've beaten all 6N nations except England.
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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 09:01

Whenever somebody not from the Home Nations gets the wooden spoon they will start talking about an exclusion of Italy.
Those talks are only silenced when someone else finishes last, but only for 2 months, than everyone has forgotten and talks about Italian exclusion again.

Actually this also seems to be a great sport in all Commonwealth countries as Southern Hemisphere's version is a non-Kiwi-team finishing last and how weak the competition has become since the historical days and off course much better days, when Murdoch threw money on them to form Super Rugby.

If I got 1 Euro for every time a former Commonwealth born rugby supporter talks about contraction instead of expansion of the game I would be a millionaire by now.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby Thomas » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 09:41

There will be no relegation, which begs the question will they allow Georgia in and have 7N?


Six Nations relegation not on the agenda, tournament organisers say

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... -on-agenda

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby BigG » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 11:12

When I read the new concept on League, I came to conclusion that it is a stillborn baby.

6N's The Executive Director made a statement underlying that no changes are foreseen. Indeed, why the hell Six Nations are going to make drastic changes to the tournament? That is beyond the logic.

What is a solution? I believe, they going to launch the league tournament without relegation/promotion for its European part.

It is simple. Nobody cares about Georgia and other t2 countries.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 11:59

The result in November kicks the can down the road until at least the RWC.

If Georgia pulled off a massive shock against the Wallabies or Wales it would re-open then. Until Georgia get a scalp the 6N chat will quieten down for a while I think.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby ZUKER » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 12:30

BTW - Italy is still strong side vs any Squad among 6N. They will never be relagated out. The only think could be applied is to extend 6N Tournament.

Georgia must forget to resist vs Italy and play strong with the rests. To be extended at 6N the Lelos will need to get a scalp from the all Teams in Tournament
Last edited by ZUKER on Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 13:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby 4N » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 12:33

ZUKER wrote:BTW - Italy is still strong side vs any Squad among 6N.


No they aren’t.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 12:34

That Euro championship concept every 4 years is the solution (6N +REC countries united). In time will attract more money and public in rest of Europe.It is the only logical idea.Nobody wants to kill Italian rugby but to raise the others...

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby Silver Fox » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 13:37

Not the only idea.
In one of the other topics it is mentioned that the TRC might be restructured to expand to 6 and to introduce promotion-relegation with the Americas RC and the Pacific NC as feeders. Rugby Europe should aim for inclusion in that structure.
Introduce a second tier (TRC 2) and feed into that from the regional tournaments.
- it would add commercial value to the TRC
- it would offer a path to the highest level
- for European teams, shifting focus would mean they didn't have to play their internationals mid-winter anymore
- with that setup the Nations Championship shouldn't have to be more than 3-4 matches in November.

At least it would offer a way out off the stranglehold the 6N have on European test rugby atm.
Just a thought.
Last edited by Silver Fox on Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 13:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby Canalina » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 13:39

Bogdan_DC wrote:That Euro championship concept every 4 years is the solution (6N +REC countries united). In time will attract more money and public in rest of Europe.It is the only logical idea.Nobody wants to kill Italian rugby but to raise the others...

Of course we have already talked about this. I don't agree a lot with the Euro Championship idea due to various reasons
- it would ruin the ancient tradition of the Six Nations. Both if you play the Euro Championship in place of the 6N and if you play them both in the same year
- even with just 12 nations participating, it would have matches too unbalanced like Ireland v Belgium or France v Belgium
- in quarterfinals there would be always or almost always the 6Ns plus Georgia and (Romania or Spain or Russia); if the World Cup has always the same 20 finalists there's no reason why the Euro Cup should be more open to surprises
- in semifinals there would be always four teams of the 6N, so at the end of the day it would be a sort of 6N played with play-off instead that with round robin

My favorite hypothesis is a promotion/relegation mechanism between 6N and REC, but we all know that at the moment there are no chances 6N board concedes it

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby victorsra » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 13:48

What is a solution? I believe, they going to launch the league tournament without relegation/promotion for its European part.

That's why I said previously that if Pichot can't break the 6N cartel they might give REC champions a place in the World League playoff, maybe in a Qualification Playoff with the 6N/TRC runners ups. That's the easiest solution for WR.

That Euro championship concept every 4 years is the solution (6N +REC countries united). In time will attract more money and public in rest of Europe.It is the only logical idea.Nobody wants to kill Italian rugby but to raise the others...

Zero interest and now there is even less chance of becoming a reality.
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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby welshdragon2000 » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 13:55

Make the 6N into the 7N with Georgia and promotion/relegation. Give each of the 7N teams low T2 tests as their first game in the June window so that each team can effectively put out a second string team so as to give their first choice players that extra week rest that they previously would have had in the 6N. The 6N desperately needs to open, what happens if Germany or Spain reach around Italy’s level? Do we let them or do we keep them out? Their economies and markets would surely be too lucrative to keep out so how would they open the 6N then? It will have to be done one day if the game continues to grow in these countries.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby dans » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 16:31

6N is and will be a closed shop for now... i’d say for at least next 10 years.
No chance of enlargement and/or promotion relegation...at least until Germany or Spain develop the sport to a level they are consistent contenders for REC title...that's when the stars would have aligned!
WR would like to change the calendar to April pressed by player safeguarding and need of improving the financials in the Rugby Championship.
But i say Feb/March slots is non-negotiable for 6N.
Assuming Georgia/Romania/Russia would be playing a promotion/relegation game and win...
How many fans from these nations will go and fill stadiums in Edinburgh then Cardiff, then Paris & London at a cost of 5-600£ per day (hotel and game spend)?...
6N are used to see a full house on match day every time and the bean counters in their unions, for years have had smiley faces as a result.
And where would the fans rather be on a spring day in March?...the choice is Bucharest or Tbilisi or Krasnoyarsk (but it could be Rome, Munich or Madrid instead)

WR will need to get a different arrangement if they want a slice of 6N pie..! they may do it through incremental regulation, maybe...

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby fullbackace » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 18:42

This was a very weak proposal, especially with Pay per view rumors. The only card World Rugby has is World Cup qualification and they wont risk jeopardizing that. So for now we(tier 2) are left to fend for ourselves. As of today the future looks grim. So let's go back to hoping that Germany, Netherlands and Spain will pick up the pace.
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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby BigG » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 18:48

Dear Canalina and other Italian mates,

Is there any link for Scotland U20 vs. Italy U20?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 18:56

It's not about money only, it's about privilege. It's naive to think a Western European country would have better chances of being integrated into the tournament.

The strategy is clear. So far they can say Georgia didn't beat any Tier 1. When they do, they will say it's a one-off and that Italy beat all but England before being integrated. Then they will allege financial reasons. And if they are offered a bucket of money, they will reject it too because in the end what they are afraid of is being diluted in a global scene.

Man, I had to laugh when I read the latest reasoning against Spanish comeback into the women's tournament. They claim the current show is poor because England and France are so much ahead of the rest, so they must focus on improving that before thinking of promotion and relegation. What I understand is the show can be as shitty as they want as long as they are involved.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby BigG » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 19:02

Armchair Fan wrote:It's not about money only, it's about privilege. It's naive to think a Western European country would have better chances of being integrated into the tournament.


In Western Europe rugby politics and money are intertwined. Once a country is Western European it means that its rich, therefore with a big chance to be integrated in 6 nations. Spain and Germany will be admitted to the club if they reach at least Georgia's level.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 19:17

Sure, let's act as if Spain didn't know well how the cartel works...

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby m.map » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 20:00

BigG wrote:Dear Canalina and other Italian mates,

Is there any link for Scotland U20 vs. Italy U20?

Thanks in advance.

I sent you a PM

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby carbonero » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 20:14

Armchair Fan wrote:Sure, let's act as if Spain didn't know well how the cartel works...

Apples and oranges. The decision to boot Spain off the W6N was inconsequential to their finances. The decision to eventually add Spain/Germany to the 6N would have massive revenue opportunities for the tournament.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby Canadaman » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 20:37

If Italy has a bad WC, unlikely but could happen, that is what will really 'raise the Georgia' question again. They actually have a bad schedule in their pool and an upset, most likely to Canada, could happen.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 20:42

carbonero wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Sure, let's act as if Spain didn't know well how the cartel works...

Apples and oranges. The decision to boot Spain off the W6N was inconsequential to their finances. The decision to eventually add Spain/Germany to the 6N would have massive revenue opportunities for the tournament.

Hypothesis and facts. That's why I stand by what I said previously, it's about privilege, not (only) money.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby rugbylineout » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 20:50

Canadaman wrote:If Italy has a bad WC, unlikely but could happen, that is what will really 'raise the Georgia' question again. They actually have a bad schedule in their pool and an upset, most likely to Canada, could happen.

If Canada finishes anything less than second in the upcoming ARC I just can't see that happening. Canada are Italy's second game so the Italians will have some game time under their belt plus some quality warmups against big teams in the month before the World Cup, but it's a first outing for a Canadian side likely to be a tad rusty. However, do agree that a wooden spoon in the 6N and anything other than third place in their pool in the World Cup will be the trigger to raise this issue again for Italy. But like most people on here suggest, irrespective of how Italy does in this 6 Nations, the issue is probably dead until at least post the RWC as you suggest.

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Re: Italy's Six Nations to raise the Georgia question again?

Postby Canalina » Fri, 01 Feb 2019, 21:34

U20: Scotland v Italy 22-32

Women: Scotland v Italy 7-28

We are not too bad :)

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