Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

New Poll - How do you feel about this World League proposal?

Do you support this World League proposal?

Yes
1
3%
No
24
63%
Undecided
0
No votes
No currently, but Yes if they add one or two pro/rel spots
13
34%
 
Total votes : 38
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New Poll - How do you feel about this World League proposal?

Postby Blurandski » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 15:25

Question as above, after someone brought up that the poll on the other thread could be misleading.

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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby victorsra » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 16:21

Dealing with reality, if the cartel is made and no one will be able to broke it, a way to make it less horrible is:

- Create another 12-teams competition, or something like this, mirroring the main league, but with relegation/promotion, with 6 European teams and 6 from other continents (3 Americas/Africa, 1 going to rep, 3 Oceania/Asia). I'll call the leagues as Golden League (6N+TRC) and Silver League, just to make my point clear;
- Start the World League playoffs in the QFs with teams from both leagues. As Golden League teams are a pain in the ass, start with 6 spots for the Golden League, 2 for Silver League;

This would mess with the calendar. This means:
- The playoffs would be in fact in December (Champions Cup needs to change dates);
- World League would face serious problems with the clubs... but the current model already gives them such problems, so I'm just adding 1 date.

And there is RWC and Lions problem. The WL model revealed today already mess with both... so I'm not discussing this. Only trying to make things less horrible and that's all a big coup against T2 rugby... and justifying why I voted for the 4th option and what I believe might appear as a counter-proposal.

Anyway, sad moment.
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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby Higgik » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 17:30

The answer lies in restarting the whole calendar.
Bruce Craig got it right a few years ago, let’s separate international and club rugby.
My plans,
Radical version
6N and RC play in August/September, add Japan & Pacific Islanders to RC. 6 weeks, (5 matches)
Rest week
Late Sept & October 4 year rotation of , RWC, Lions, Continental Champs, Champions Trophy

Issues, 6N morning vine to late summer
Bonus
1) Japan and Pacific get better matches
2) Lions get 7 week tour.
3) continental champs enable T2 teams to develop
4) Champions Trophy give top teams match ups.

E.g.
The European Champs would be 10 teams in 2 groups of 5 with semis and finals, max of 6 matches over 7 weeks.
Champions Trophy could be America’s Champs, Euro Champs, Asia/Pacific Champs, Africa Champs, playing home or away over the 7 weeks.

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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 17:50

It's still a bad idea. Good for the US, but overall...I don't get it.

I think the idea is World Rugby needs to make more money for the development grant endowment so that they're not relying on the RWC to fund everything, therefore giving them more money every year to further distribute.

But as I said previously, World Rugby seems to be helping those who help themselves. Japan has had a pro league for awhile and it led to them getting a second seat on the World Council. They also got a World Cup. Gosper and Beaumont have hitting the press talking about a World Cup in the US and telling us we need to bid for 2027. I think that says where this is going.

On this board and some on reddit you have a few people that care about T2 countries. But I find most of what I'm seeing online to just be virtue signaling, most of these people won't give a shit about us tomorrow.

I would have preferred some type of Confederations Cup, that would require removing any A-Sides from regional test competitions.

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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby Tobar » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 18:06


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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby SallesNeto_BR » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 19:09

victorsra wrote:Dealing with reality, if the cartel is made and no one will be able to broke it, a way to make it less horrible is:

- Create another 12-teams competition, or something like this, mirroring the main league, but with relegation/promotion, with 6 European teams and 6 from other continents (3 Americas/Africa, 1 going to rep, 3 Oceania/Asia). I'll call the leagues as Golden League (6N+TRC) and Silver League, just to make my point clear;
- Start the World League playoffs in the QFs with teams from both leagues. As Golden League teams are a pain in the ass, start with 6 spots for the Golden League, 2 for Silver League;

This would mess with the calendar. This means:
- The playoffs would be in fact in December (Champions Cup needs to change dates);
- World League would face serious problems with the clubs... but the current model already gives them such problems, so I'm just adding 1 date.

And there is RWC and Lions problem. The WL model revealed today already mess with both... so I'm not discussing this. Only trying to make things less horrible and that's all a big coup against T2 rugby... and justifying why I voted for the 4th option and what I believe might appear as a counter-proposal.

Anyway, sad moment.



That's a good idea, but I think it's time to concentrate the T2-nations speech efforces only on rejecting fully this shitty project

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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby Blurandski » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 19:25

For me I'd enlarge TRC (SANZAAR needs the money).

Then I'd create a July/November nations league.

Two tiers, 16 teams a tier.

4 pools of 4, each pool hosted in one non-Europe nation in July.

In November: 1st in each pool compete in knockouts (including third place).

4th place in each pool joins 1st place in each pool in the second division (NL2), for two round robin pools of four (2 4ths and 2 1sts in each pool), top two in each pool wins a place in NL1 next year.

2nd and 3rd in each pool play one game vs their equivalent in NL2 (i.e a 3rd in NL1 plays a 3rd in NL2), if needed juggle the specifics to have as many games in Europe as possible.

4th in each NL2 pool gets drawn into a two pools of four with the best European side not already qualified for NL2, the best Americas side not already qualified, the best African side NAQ, the best Oceanian/Asian side NAQ, as determined by the annual domestic tournaments.

Teams with less than 3 November internationals are free to schedule more.
Top tier for the first round: 6N + TRC

Second Tier for the first round: rest of nations in top 32.

Pro/rel can be anywhere between 0 to 4 sides between the tiers, done on merit.

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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 21:00

The World League should mimic the UEFA Nations League in structure. But instead of 4 groups of three it would be 4 groups of 4. Each group plays home and away for six games. The first round of games in the July window played in the south (so each group would have two southern teams and two northern teams) and the second round in the November window with the winner of each group going forward to the 3 game (two semi-finals and a final) finals series. The traditional structures such as the 6Ns and RC would continue to operate as external concerns though I would actually support both Japan and the USA being added to the RC and it being a straight 5 games for the nations involved similar to the 6N's anyway.

That would be the first division. The 2nd division would be similar as in 4 groups of 4 and operate during the same windows but for the sake of costs would operate more regionally. This could be easily achieved by simply using current structures. Fold the REC, ARC, merge the Pacific and Asia into the Asia Pacific and Africa. Keep the current numbers in each. So that would be 4 groups of 6 playing a straight round robin (5 games) with the winner of each playing in once again a 3 game final series to determine who would progress to the pro/rel play off game to be held on the same day as the final, at the same venue but before it.

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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby SallesNeto_BR » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 21:02

I'm since the start against any World League concept. Hockey, Basketball, volleyball, handball and so on have this kind of league. The consequence? No one cares for theirs "World Cups". The same for Sevens.

Unhappily, SANZAAR/6N lobby are close to impose something even worst than the initial idea.

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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby snapper37 » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 21:02

TheStroBro wrote:It's still a bad idea. Good for the US, but overall...I don't get it.

I think the idea is World Rugby needs to make more money for the development grant endowment so that they're not relying on the RWC to fund everything, therefore giving them more money every year to further distribute.

But as I said previously, World Rugby seems to be helping those who help themselves. Japan has had a pro league for awhile and it led to them getting a second seat on the World Council. They also got a World Cup. Gosper and Beaumont have hitting the press talking about a World Cup in the US and telling us we need to bid for 2027. I think that says where this is going.

On this board and some on reddit you have a few people that care about T2 countries. But I find most of what I'm seeing online to just be virtue signaling, most of these people won't give a shit about us tomorrow.

I would have preferred some type of Confederations Cup, that would require removing any A-Sides from regional test competitions.




Argentina deserves the World Cup before America does.

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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby victorsra » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 21:45

Once T1s found it is possible to play everybody against everybody they'll do it. Unions want to take back the control of the game that is shifting a bit to French and now English clubs. If the league provides them the $ for that they'll do a plan to expand central contracts, making IRP quiet, as players' welfare will be balanced by the Unions. No TV/internet broadcaster sane enough will put more money in club rugby than in national teams. Club rugby is not like football. The prestige still lies with the national teams. For now.

I woudn't be surprised if WR decides 2023 is the last RWC. If 4 years of WL gives more money to the WR than the RWC, they clearly will do it. Remember international rugby spent a century without a World Cup.

The question will be how to make T2s participate.

(I do prefer the RWC, just trying to think with their mind)
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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 23:50

The main issue that we've discovered is there are competing interests between the unions, and no real easy solution for how to deal with them all. This proposal seems to be dead thankfully, but I don't know what the solution is to this anymore. I was open to the idea of a world league but not the one being proposed.

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Re: New Poll - How do you feel about this World League propo

Postby victorsra » Thu, 28 Feb 2019, 23:58

Oh World Rugby could come up with that terrific model of groups of 6 teams with only 3 matches. Think about :lol:
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