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Third European cup - press release from FIR

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 10:43

I'm happy to see a Georgian and German club make the knockout stages. Over the long term this contest provides a big potential platform for the unions from these nations to develop their rugby standards.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby datodato » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 11:10

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:NUMBERS do NOT lie


T2 in 2015 - 2017

ENGINE >> http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsguru/ru ... ;type=team

Code: Select all

Sorted by W% = (2*W+D)/(2*P)*100

# XXX    W%     P    W-L *D   DIFF    T    T/P

1 FIJ   87.5   12   10-1 *1   +135   45   3.75
2 GEO   70.0   15   10-4 *1   +102   33   2.14
3 JPN   66.7   12    8-4       +69   29   2.42
4 ROM   54.5   11    6-5       -19   18   1.64
5 TON   50.0   14    7-7       -28   29   2.07
6 USA   43.3   15    6-8 *1    +27   44   2.93
7 SAM   42.9   14    5-7 *2    -38   25   1.79
8 CAN    7.9   19    1-17*1   -248   37   1.95

6 results, ADDED since previous update:

11/11   GEO 54-22 CAN

18/11   ROM 17-13 SAM
18/11   JPN 39- 6 TON in FRA

25/11   GEO 21-20 USA
25/11   ROM 20-25 TON
25/11   CAN 17-57 FIJ in FRA



Looks realistic if you switch Japan and Georgia. Georgia obviously playing weaker teams in the REC than Japan do regulary. Still really interesting.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 11:23

Dear datodato

This is a table of games
ONLY | SOLELY between
those eight T2 teams
for the last three years

The fact that
Georgia play some weaker teams in REC | ex-ENC
does NOT matter as ONLY Romania belong to T2

Hence, GEO clearly have BETTER results than Japan
during 2015 - 17 whence ONLY T2 tests are counted, and
much improved Romania are 4th - above TON USA SAM CAN

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby datodato » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 11:40

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:Dear datodato

This is a table of games
ONLY | SOLELY between
those eight T2 teams
for the last three years

The fact that
Georgia play some weaker teams in REC | ex-ENC
does NOT matter as ONLY Romania belong to T2

Hence, GEO clearly have BETTER results than Japan
during 2015 - 17 whence ONLY T2 tests are counted, and
much improved Romania are 4th - above TON USA SAM CAN


Oh, ok. I didn't know that this were only the games between those teams. Than this table is more telling then I thought. :)

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 12:01

Those kind of Tables are common ... say, in INTERNATIONAL CRICKET

Image

https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/me ... kings/test

Due to various factors they play UNBALANCED schedule
and different formats

@

T2R table can be further improved by introducing WEIGHTING
so that last season's results had more bearing than older ones,
and taking into account Home | Away factor

+ Those standings need OFFICIAL recognition and a Title Sponsor

Say, *TBC BANK T2 LADDER* on similar lines
with FIFA COCA COLA RANKINGS = I do NOT follow soccer
so this could have been already gone -- I do NOT know for sure

@

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby rey200 » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 13:18

who invented this format? So now you have a second and third fixture between teams that already have met. Genius.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 13:52

Truly GENIUS :!:

Who else? Organizers = FIR (ITALY) & EPCR, may be RE also had some WITTY input

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Kiroshi » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 17:02

amz wrote:Funny thing how you Georgians consider every thing that favors you after the last results and when you are defeated you are quiet like a fish.

On your logic, when CFR Cluj Romanian football team defeated Man Utd abroad, our first league was as good as Premiership. This is what your mind is able to produce here. This is the sole thing I ever seen on this forum said by your fans about rugby. I never seen a half a phrase about a ruck or a kick, half of an analysis. This is what you are writing after a win against a team that we consider is crap from one year if not more. Guys, on rugby matters, you are 0.

beber wrote:They just playing (very) bad since months, maybe because of internal problems.
@amz How they can sign Luiters without paying their players since 3 months?!


Not sure, this is odd. If I'd be coach, Seniloli and Pretorius would be out at the first occasion. As for money, their issues aren't quite new and I really hope they will resolve it. Remember who Chester Williams is and from where Luiters is coming ;)


Look amz, you know I defend Romanian Rugby on this forum, but I think you're wrong here. You also know that I'm not the most liked person by Georgians and non Georgians on this this forum that continue to bash Romanian Rugby.
I was among those who claimed that SL is way better than D10. If this was correct than Timisoara should have beaten Batumi with all the problems that they currently have.
The sad fact is that they didn't. When I see this result it just makes me sick.
I hope I won't see Timisoara eliminated by Batumi in the next 2 matches...

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby GeoRugby » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 17:49

Kiroshi. Why would it be so surprising that Didi10 is on the level or better playing level than Super Liga? There is a lot of talent in Didi10. I been saying it before. In my opinion , there is more talent in Didi10. Yesterday's result didn't surprise me one bit. I was expecting a close game. Timisoara may very well win and progress to the final, but Batumi made a big point that Didi10 is a quality league even though if it is not fully professional.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 17:57

Agree, i was expecting Timisoara victory and i underestimated Batumi.

They beat Timisoara and Heidelberg but lost to pretty weak Italian clubs with sensations.

I dont remember team winning 27-5 and losing the match i 2nd half.

Now i hope Batumi will eliminate Timisoara and Heidelberg and play against Russian teams.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 18:05

I sincerely do NOT undestand why public thinks that
over-paid Pacific Islander and South African wanderers
are better (quality) rugby players than Caucasians

For some reason --
absence of full-length-and-width grassy fields since collapse of communism --
generations of Georgians have being groomed
on parking lots and garbage premises -- I do NOT exagerrate

Now they have great, modern facilities across the country
and much better tuition, the Game is on rise and public loves this

Matiashvili could have chosen any other sport but went to rugby

So, expect more talented athletes and skilled ball-players emerging
in near future and Georgia causing positive rugby noise at every level

@

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 18:44

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:I sincerely do NOT undestand why public thinks that
over-paid Pacific Islander and South African wanderers
are better (quality) rugby players than Caucasians

If you refer to the comparison between Didi10 and other leagues, it's not the fact there are overpaid PIs and Saffas which leads to think they are better leagues, but the financial ability to ditch them if deemed overpaid to bring other ones. That's what makes a league better in the long run.

If a Georgian club ever beats a French one (and I pray for it to happen), French club will always have the financial tools to be more competitive the following season by replacing half the squad if necessary.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby datodato » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 19:26

And also the coaches are way better in SuperLiga I believe. But yes, I think everyone expected Saracens to win, but as someone mentioned - let‘s see how Batumi will play the next games. One has to be a special kind of stupid to loose a game after 27-5 at the HT. And as I said, one win doesn‘t mean anything. I expect Saracens to fire back next week, will be a tough tough game for us. What wondered me most was that some of Saracens islanders didn’t really look sad after the loss. They were laughing and waving at the crowd as if they won... I checked the scoreboard twice because I was a bit irritated... looks like they have a stoic approach to winning and losing!

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Bogdan_DC » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 19:33

I am not always on the same page with @amz or other Romanian posters but definitely modesty is not number 1 quality of Georgian posters. You lose against some 5th place Excelenzza Italian squad -which you are always moaning “ Italy is not tier1”etc. No words about this, no Georgian saying maybe Italians aren’t that bad:). Winning against an almost qualified Timisoara team with a lot of problems and already Didi10 is better than SuperLiga :)). Some posters even say that Russian teams will never win in Georgia. Well I have a different opinion about this and I don’t see Enisey losing there. Let’s wait and see who wins the games who REALLY matters between TM& Batumi but who cares when Georgians are the best anyway? Oh I forgot, we beat you at National side level so you have a better league but we got a better national team.Just facts, your kind of out of context facts :) PS. My prediction is that Timisoara will lose in the final against Calvisano who will qualify but lose to the Russian team.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Canalina » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 20:25

For that matter, it's also my prediction. I see Timisoara defeating Batumi by little, Calvisano defeating Heidelberg just a bit more easier, Enisei defeating Krasny Yar, I don't know who could win between Calvisano and Timisoara but I see Enisei taking again the Shield in the final match

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby datodato » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 21:52

Bogdan_DC wrote:I am not always on the same page with @amz or other Romanian posters but definitely modesty is not number 1 quality of Georgian posters. You lose against some 5th place Excelenzza Italian squad -which you are always moaning “ Italy is not tier1”etc. No words about this, no Georgian saying maybe Italians aren’t that bad:). Winning against an almost qualified Timisoara team with a lot of problems and already Didi10 is better than SuperLiga :)). Some posters even say that Russian teams will never win in Georgia. Well I have a different opinion about this and I don’t see Enisey losing there. Let’s wait and see who wins the games who REALLY matters between TM& Batumi but who cares when Georgians are the best anyway? Oh I forgot, we beat you at National side level so you have a better league but we got a better national team.Just facts, your kind of out of context facts :) PS. My prediction is that Timisoara will lose in the final against Calvisano who will qualify but lose to the Russian team.


Great post. Modesty no1 quality of romanian posters for sure. There were balance posts by the Georgians here about the topic. Nobody said that georgian league is better, most of us said we were surprised and happy and think that didi 10 improved a lot over the years and it is not a lot worse than SL. And it is simply true that no georgian team would lose against a russian team in Georgia, 100%. You don‘t understand anything when it comes to the Georgian-Russia thing. After the game the boys are friends but sadly on the field it‘a politics and in Rugby we win there. And btw: you always agree with anz, other romanian posters were sad about the defeat but rational because they think saracens will fire back as I do also. But you two are so butthurt about everything and always bring your stupid comments here!

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby fullbackace » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 21:59

Bogdan_DC wrote:I am not always on the same page with @amz or other Romanian posters but definitely modesty is not number 1 quality of Georgian posters. You lose against some 5th place Excelenzza Italian squad -which you are always moaning “ Italy is not tier1”etc. No words about this, no Georgian saying maybe Italians aren’t that bad:). Winning against an almost qualified Timisoara team with a lot of problems and already Didi10 is better than SuperLiga :)). Some posters even say that Russian teams will never win in Georgia. Well I have a different opinion about this and I don’t see Enisey losing there. Let’s wait and see who wins the games who REALLY matters between TM& Batumi but who cares when Georgians are the best anyway? Oh I forgot, we beat you at National side level so you have a better league but we got a better national team.Just facts, your kind of out of context facts :) PS. My prediction is that Timisoara will lose in the final against Calvisano who will qualify but lose to the Russian team.


Again like AMZ you use "Georgians" like it's all of us thinking the same thing. I have exact opposite opinions of the ones you mentioned but you attribute them to all of us because few very eager Georgian posters keep going on about it.

So you put all Georgian fandom in one basket from the sample size of what ? half a dozen ?
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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Lobo » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 22:10

Armchair Fan wrote:Even neutral users hallucinate ahead of such behavior.


:)

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby GeoRugby » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 22:19

It's been very successful first try for Batumi in this comp. I would favor Timisoara in a two legged fixture and I won't be sad if they advance. I think Batumi will benefit more from this little tournament than getting thrashed in Challenge Cup proper. And yes, Yenisei are clear favorites in this qualifying.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 06:06

EPCR have by now updated tables -
one could work out that HDL.GER scored 6t

So, in final, 4th cross-over round
three out of four games were lop-sided

Code: Select all
BTM.GEO 20-17 TMS.ROM = 2/3
CLV.ITA 34- 0 ROV.ITA = 5/0
PDV.ITA 41- 7 VDN.ITA = 6/1
LSB.POR  7-38 HDL.GER = 1/6

POOL.A     PT   DIFF      T      W-L    $

TMS.ROM    14    +38    14/ 6    3-1    2
HDL.GER    13    +22    10/10    3-1    1
ROV.ITA    11     +3    11/12    2-2    3
VDN.ITA     6    -62    10/18    1-3    2

POOL.B     PT   DIFF      T      W-L    $

CLV.ITA    12    +55    15/ 6    2-2    4
BTM.GEO    12    +12    13/13    2-2    4
PDV.ITA    11    +31    11/ 5    2-2    3
LSB.POR     4    -99     7/21    1-3    0

Tie-break according to EPCR Manual:
1) DIFF, 2) T scored, 3) T conceeded, 4) bans, 5) toss of coin

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 07:03

fullbackace wrote:[So you put all Georgian fandom in one basket from the sample size of what ? half a dozen ?
- I don't like generalization either. So "some of the Georgians posters" is better?:)
datodato wrote: You don‘t understand anything when it comes to the Georgian-Russia thing.
Maybe. But i understand a thing or two about rugby and Yenisey will be big favorites against any Georgian team.
datodato wrote:And btw: you always agree with anz
Simply NOT true.
datodato wrote: always bring your stupid comments here!
Your language and arguments are appalling.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby STMKY » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 07:46

I do not understand who suggested to Georgians that they always beat Russia in rugby? Look at the results in rugby sevens. Russia beat Georgia in most games. At the club level, no official games have been played yet, but from where is 100%, that Enisei and Krasny Yar will lose to the Georgian clubs?

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby amz » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 07:52

One thing I am sure, seeing attitude of some Georgians I know I don't wanna drive a car there as most of you don't think more than next move.

Didi10 is not at the same level with SL. You won with a lot of luck against a team that barely bothered to play, is not coached, missed a lot of players and was looking forward to vacation after a much longer season than Batumi. I see this players week in week out, I also occasionally watch Didi10 on youtube and although your level is on the rise there is still far.

Now one win of Batumi don't piss me off, I was horrified by Timisoara's set up in defense, even amateurs position themselves better, what annoys me is the usual BS of some Georgian posters. Last but not least, Batumi is perhaps preferable to Calvisano :)

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby fullbackace » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 08:33

Bogdan_DC wrote:
fullbackace wrote:[So you put all Georgian fandom in one basket from the sample size of what ? half a dozen ?
- I don't like generalization either. So "some of the Georgians posters" is better?:)

Yes, because it almost completely changes the meaning of what you're claiming. but then again you go on to say
seeing attitude of some Georgians I know I don't wanna drive a car there as most of you don't think more than next move.
:lol: :lol:

And you're right back into using 3 posters as a legitimate sample of
most of you


So you say some Georgians and then make a full reversal and go back to "Most" again insulting the whole country instead of those few that you're debating. :roll:

Either you're trolling or your critical thinking skills are that of a hamster.
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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby amz » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 08:43

First you were upset because I made a generalization. OK, I reckon making generalizations is wrong. Now you are upset I mentioned some. Really, I am confused.

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