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Third European cup - press release from FIR

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby STMKY » Mon, 15 May 2017, 14:24

Horsehead wrote:
and that is how is should be, if the last two seasons are anything to go by Enisey will not be one of the bottom two teams, they deserve to qualify for the Challenge cup without having to have these play offs. They should be rewarded for their performances at the expense of English, Pro12 or French teams that don't take this competition seriously


In Russia, the Enisei is not so many games, so the playoff games of the Continental Shield are also useful. This year, of course, no luck with Mogliano, who in Italy took only 8th place. But I'm sure that in the next season the competition will be much higher. They say that Georgia will have 2 clubs, if they find money, Romanians, Italians. I hope that the Kuban play in Shield too.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby CraigChalmers » Mon, 15 May 2017, 16:20

Horsehead wrote:
STMKY wrote:Finals of the Continental Shield will be held also in Bilbao2018 and Newcastle2019, that is, the current formula will be valid for 2 more seasons. It is further possible in future that the best 2 teams of the Continental Shield will change the 2 worst teams of the Challenge Cup regardless of the country of origin. That is theoretically clubs Top-14, Premership and Pro12 can fly to the Shield :)


and that is how is should be, if the last two seasons are anything to go by Enisey will not be one of the bottom two teams, they deserve to qualify for the Challenge cup without having to have these play offs. They should be rewarded for their performances at the expense of English, Pro12 or French teams that don't take this competition seriously


Can't disagree with the principal there, but that may not work in practical terms. This year, Timisoara and Bayonne were the bottom 2; Timisoara playing a qualifier for their place works fine, but Bayonne? They have been relegated, so wouldn't be taking part even if they won a qualifier. Does that mean Agen/Montauban are reliant on Bayonne winning to keep them in? Doesn't seem particularly fair. And we still don't know who will take that place, so playing the games themselves is hardly possible.

Would work fine with Pro12 sides, but generally those French sides who struggle are also those struggling in their league.



Also, I was at Murrayfield on Saturday, and wanted to confirm the Shield winners were afforded the opportunity to show off their trophy at half time of the champions cup final. Even if the announcer wrongly said the winners had qualified for next seasons challenge cup...

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby STMKY » Mon, 15 May 2017, 16:47

Enisei-STM claimed European Rugby Continental Shield final glory and sealed their place in the 2017-18 European Rugby Challenge Cup with a 36-8 victory over Krasny Yar in Edinburgh.
http://www.epcrugby.com/matchcentre/358 ... RnbLaVSDIU

Iurii Kushnarev believes Enisei-STM have what it takes to make a real mark in next season's European Rugby Challenge Cup.
http://www.epcrugby.com/news/35898.php#.WRnZ9aVSDIU

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Canalina » Mon, 15 May 2017, 21:05

I'd like to see one of the two russian teams in the same pool of one of the two italian franchises. Treviso, if it will finish in Challenge Cup, could be not bottom-seeded so it could finish in the pool with Enisei or Krasny

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Horsehead » Tue, 16 May 2017, 08:33

CraigChalmers wrote:
Horsehead wrote:
STMKY wrote:Finals of the Continental Shield will be held also in Bilbao2018 and Newcastle2019, that is, the current formula will be valid for 2 more seasons. It is further possible in future that the best 2 teams of the Continental Shield will change the 2 worst teams of the Challenge Cup regardless of the country of origin. That is theoretically clubs Top-14, Premership and Pro12 can fly to the Shield :)


and that is how is should be, if the last two seasons are anything to go by Enisey will not be one of the bottom two teams, they deserve to qualify for the Challenge cup without having to have these play offs. They should be rewarded for their performances at the expense of English, Pro12 or French teams that don't take this competition seriously


Can't disagree with the principal there, but that may not work in practical terms. This year, Timisoara and Bayonne were the bottom 2; Timisoara playing a qualifier for their place works fine, but Bayonne? They have been relegated, so wouldn't be taking part even if they won a qualifier. Does that mean Agen/Montauban are reliant on Bayonne winning to keep them in? Doesn't seem particularly fair. And we still don't know who will take that place, so playing the games themselves is hardly possible.

Would work fine with Pro12 sides, but generally those French sides who struggle are also those struggling in their league.



Also, I was at Murrayfield on Saturday, and wanted to confirm the Shield winners were afforded the opportunity to show off their trophy at half time of the champions cup final. Even if the announcer wrongly said the winners had qualified for next seasons challenge cup...


You know what, this makes sense, it wouldn't work expecting teams who had been relegated to have to play in a play off game for the challenge cup.

An option that I had previously proposed was that the two teams in the challenge cup shouldn't have to defend their place against the two pool winners on the shield, instead we should have semi finals in the Shield followed by a final like we did this year with the winner just taking the place of the team with the worst record in the challenge cup.

So this year the final could have been Krasny Yar vs Mogliano (which I'm certain Krasny Yar would have won) and they would just take the place of Timisoara Saracens. With qualification riding on the final it will give it more prestige. If next year the likes of London Irish, Agen or Zebre finish with the worst record in the challenge cup then they would be replaced by the winners of the Shield. I don't see any reason why the 12th ranked AP, Pro12 or 14th ranked French team shouldn't play in the Shield instead of the Challenge Cup if there are clubs from other countries that will put in a more competitive showing

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Vova12 » Tue, 16 May 2017, 15:57

Yenisei-STM - Krasny Yar. Continental Shield 2017 | Review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqsktMmLh_8

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby STMKY » Tue, 16 May 2017, 19:19

A journalist from Lequipe who wrote about the Gulag in the middle of the video ;) After him, an EPCR official says in pure Russian that British and French journalists are sure that the Krasnoyarsk derby will end in a scandal. Because of the fact that the Enisei and Krasny Yar enemies :lol:

7 chanel from Krasnoyarsk about Shield final
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rMiVHKzMSI

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Tue, 16 May 2017, 21:32

English commentator says that both sides come from Serbia in Russia.

Still, it turned out better than I thought despite not being in the main stadium. It meant some fans for the Champions Cup turned up. The fact there is a physical trophy Enisei can show off is a good thing and EPRC is improving by managing to give the trophy to the right team!

Enisei get a trophy for winning three games! Two against awful Mogliana, so I think there is room to improve the format.

Hopefully it will become a mechanism for some kind of promotion and relegation from the Challenge Cup. It would help prevent French sides from fielding totally understrength sides in the pool stages of the Challenge Cup if it meant the Top14 would risk losing a space.

I think that is very hypothetical though unless anyone has firm information?

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby STMKY » Wed, 17 May 2017, 06:50

It seems that the trophy starts to bear fruit. Announced a tender for the reconstruction of the Avangard stadium, home to the Enisei. The project has already existed for many years, but there was no money. Now they promise to build a new covered stands for 2530 seats, a natural heated field and a training artificial field of the last generation until the end of 2018. Also there will be a sports hotel and a hostel for players of the Enisei-STM Academy.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby beber » Fri, 19 May 2017, 09:57

A partnership between Krasny Yar and GRU could be interesting in this case.
I mean, clubs from Didi10 can loan 2 or 3 players (Tkhilaishvili, Koshadze and Cheishvili for example) to KY for the next Challenge Cup.
Krasny yar will have his team strengthened, considering they lost 36-8 against Enisei, while few amateur guys for the Georgian national team will play 6 professional games.
I don't know if KY will sign Pruidze for the next season?

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby amz » Fri, 19 May 2017, 10:12

Since they're qualified now, why don't give the game time to Russian players?

It makes no sense to sign Georgians who may play in the future for opposition in Challenge Cup qualification. Why everything should evolve around Georgia? Don't that have Russian players who need that experience?

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby STMKY » Fri, 19 May 2017, 11:38

Krasny Yar school works worse than the Enisei. That's why they have been betting on foreigners for many years. It brought them several titles in recent years, but in the long run the Enisei is moving forward. They have a lot of branches of the Academy around the region, hundreds of children, several dozen children's coaches are involved.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby amz » Fri, 19 May 2017, 11:54

Probably yes but I doubt that KY don't have its own players who can gain experience being exposed to Challenge Cup. Signing a player to play a number of seasons for a club is one thing and getting players for 6 matches is completely another issue.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby STMKY » Fri, 19 May 2017, 13:05

Of course, they have young players, but they need to give time. But we need to know the psychology of the Krasny Yar, they do not recognize that the Enisei is stronger than them. Therefore, they do not want to lag behind them. But strategically, they lose to Pervukhin. And now, to defeat the Enisei, they must invite foreigners.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 19 May 2017, 13:24

STMKY wrote:Of course, they have young players, but they need to give time. But we need to know the psychology of the Krasny Yar, they do not recognize that the Enisei is stronger than them. Therefore, they do not want to lag behind them. But strategically, they lose to Pervukhin. And now, to defeat the Enisei, they must invite foreigners.

It is a mistery for me how Enisei are playing a good brand of rugby with some very good results and the national team with same coach and about same players are playing an error prone game plan with bad results.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 19 May 2017, 14:00

Bogdan_DC wrote:
STMKY wrote:Of course, they have young players, but they need to give time. But we need to know the psychology of the Krasny Yar, they do not recognize that the Enisei is stronger than them. Therefore, they do not want to lag behind them. But strategically, they lose to Pervukhin. And now, to defeat the Enisei, they must invite foreigners.

It is a mistery for me how Enisei are playing a good brand of rugby with some very good results and the national team with same coach and about same players are playing an error prone game plan with bad results.

Very uncomfortabl dates for the matches of the national team!

A huge number of points lost for that reason.

Yenisei in games in the autumn and winter are two different teams.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby GeoRugby » Fri, 19 May 2017, 14:00

beber wrote:A partnership between Krasny Yar and GRU could be interesting in this case.
I mean, clubs from Didi10 can loan 2 or 3 players (Tkhilaishvili, Koshadze and Cheishvili for example) to KY for the next Challenge Cup.
Krasny yar will have his team strengthened, considering they lost 36-8 against Enisei, while few amateur guys for the Georgian national team will play 6 professional games.
I don't know if KY will sign Pruidze for the next season?


It`s an interesting idea, but if at least one Didi10 team participates in the qualifying, I would prefer these and few other players play for Georgian club.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby armchair_expert » Fri, 19 May 2017, 14:02

Bogdan_DC wrote:It is a mistery for me how Enisei are playing a good brand of rugby with some very good results and the national team with same coach and about same players are playing an error prone game plan with bad results.

Russian national team
a) cannot just go and sign Mikheil Gachechiladze and David Kacharava
b) would've beaten Worcester Cavaliers by more than 7 points

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 19 May 2017, 14:13

armchair_expert wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:It is a mistery for me how Enisei are playing a good brand of rugby with some very good results and the national team with same coach and about same players are playing an error prone game plan with bad results.

Russian national team
a) cannot just go and sign Mikheil Gachechiladze and David Kacharava
b) would've beaten Worcester Cavaliers by more than 7 points

If in February there may be more than 30 points and in the autumn is i not sure.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby STMKY » Fri, 19 May 2017, 14:28

I do not understand why Pervukhin did not draw Orlov, Krasilnik, Baranov into the Russian team. They are Russians, but they played for other countries. Many years already play in Enisei. Gargalyk is a Moldavian Gagauz, but as Vova said, he was born in Surgut (Russia). Uldis Saulite is a Latvian, but his wife is Pervukhin's daughter. I think they all could play for the Russian national team as Anton Rudoy.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 19 May 2017, 14:35

STMKY wrote:I do not understand why Pervukhin did not draw Orlov, Krasilnik, Baranov into the Russian team. They are Russians, but they played for other countries. Many years already play in Enisei. Gargalyk is a Moldavian Gagauz, but as Vova said, he was born in Surgut (Russia). Uldis Saulite is a Latvian, but his wife is Pervukhin's daughter. I think they all could play for the Russian national team as Anton Rudoy.

This is a terrible job of the Rugby Federation of Russia heded by Kopiev.

Gargalyk Maxim. Born on March 7, 1989, Surgut, Russia

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0 ... 0%B8%D0%BC

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby STMKY » Fri, 19 May 2017, 14:49

Yes, its Kopiev`s bad work. Saulite and Baranov are 36 age, but Orlov, Krasilnik and Gargalyk can still be drawn to the Russian team. Rudoy began playing for Russia in 30 years, previously played for Kazakhstan.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 19 May 2017, 14:54

STMKY wrote:Yes, its Kopiev`s bad work. Saulite and Baranov are 36 age, but Orlov, Krasilnik and Gargalyk can still be drawn to the Russian team. Rudoy began playing for Russia in 30 years, previously played for Kazakhstan.

Maybe when Kopiev is deported from London he will be able to dial with this issue. Now he has no time.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby STMKY » Fri, 19 May 2017, 15:03

Vova12 wrote:
STMKY wrote:Yes, its Kopiev`s bad work. Saulite and Baranov are 36 age, but Orlov, Krasilnik and Gargalyk can still be drawn to the Russian team. Rudoy began playing for Russia in 30 years, previously played for Kazakhstan.

Maybe when Kopiev is deported from London he will be able to dial with this issue. Now he has no time.

I want to see when the Anglo-Saxons start to take oligarchs ass like Kopyev in London and Miami. It is clear that we will not return the money that they exported from Russia to the West, but at least we would have had moral satisfaction.

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Re: Third European cup - press release from FIR

Postby Vova12 » Fri, 19 May 2017, 15:16

STMKY wrote:I want to see when the Anglo-Saxons start to take oligarchs ass like Kopyev in London and Miami. It is clear that we will not return the money that they exported from Russia to the West, but at least we would have had moral satisfaction.

Yes dick with them! I hate when these bastards and thieves write that they left because of a lack of freedom in Russia.
In fact their motive are the same as those who swim across the Mediterranean on holiy boats.
It also pises me off when people think that we are in Russia the same .

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