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New Japanese pro league

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Tobar » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 22:37

victorsra wrote:Top League currently has 16 teams.


Yes, I’m referring to the number of TL teams making the switch to the new league

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 22:40

TheStroBro wrote:Should the Japanese be added to The Rugby Championship, they would have to shift the entire calendar of the proposed league from an Autumn-Winter to a Winter-Summer like Super Rugby is currently aligned now. Why? Because they'd be placed on the Southern Hemisphere schedule keep their national on that schedule in perpetuity: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rugby-wo ... eturn.html


Not necessarily. They could just go into camp for an extended timeframe. Much like they did this year. Play their season and the assemble their national squad while others play SR.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 22 Oct 2019, 04:59

Working Class Rugger wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:Should the Japanese be added to The Rugby Championship, they would have to shift the entire calendar of the proposed league from an Autumn-Winter to a Winter-Summer like Super Rugby is currently aligned now. Why? Because they'd be placed on the Southern Hemisphere schedule keep their national on that schedule in perpetuity: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rugby-wo ... eturn.html


Not necessarily. They could just go into camp for an extended timeframe. Much like they did this year. Play their season and the assemble their national squad while others play SR.


If you overlay the test windows onto the August-December timeframe. The players would miss over 50% of the season if they were on national duty the entire time.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 22 Oct 2019, 20:57

4N wrote: Kiyomiya's plan is to recruit players from the southern hemisphere to give the competition star power and tee up a broadcasting deal with streaming giant DAZN, which already holds the rights to Japan's J-League football competition,

"We will turn the new union into the Pacific Rim union that can generate [annual revenue of] about 50 billion yen [$NZ730 million / US$ 450 million], to be on a par with the European market," he said.


That would be an annual budget of US$ 35-40 million per team. Of course not every penny would be spent on player salaries. Anyway that's quite an ambitious financial target.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 22 Oct 2019, 22:32

NaBUru38 wrote:
4N wrote: Kiyomiya's plan is to recruit players from the southern hemisphere to give the competition star power and tee up a broadcasting deal with streaming giant DAZN, which already holds the rights to Japan's J-League football competition,

"We will turn the new union into the Pacific Rim union that can generate [annual revenue of] about 50 billion yen [$NZ730 million / US$ 450 million], to be on a par with the European market," he said.


That would be an annual budget of US$ 35-40 million per team. Of course not every penny would be spent on player salaries. Anyway that's quite an ambitious financial target.


Not including sponsorship, merchandising and ticket sales.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 22 Oct 2019, 23:42

The talk about Japan entering the Rugby Championship, whilst logical, might also be a bit overstated. the question is ultimately going to come down to what Japan want to do. Right now, they are top ranked team in the world, and they have done it largely without regular competition against T1 opposition, although that has increased in recent years. So it begs the question, with the money that is being estimated in this new club competition, and the players it is likely to attract, and given Japan's development over the last 10 years, is there any actual benefit for Japan other than regular matches against NZ and South Africa? 4 years ago they managed to beat South Africa having never played them before, and subsequently won additional matches against T1 opposition in the following 4 years. If all of these dollar figures are being estimated without the South Hemisphere superpowers, what is the actual need for them? To put it bluntly, New Zealand and Australia require Japan more than the other way around.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 00:13

If SANZAAR were smart, they would invest (not money, they have none) in both Japan and the US. I feel like they have only begun to scratch the surface of the commercial potential of those two nations.

65000 to watch NZ All Blacks smash USA Eagles but it made a lot of money. People in Japan and USA will show up to big test matches but it needs to be proper tests.

If USA Eagles and Brave Blossoms were getting regular competition, they would get better, they would also quickly draw considerably more corporate support and money.

This would also give Rugby more credibility as a legit International sport. Rugby is really not popular in any of the real Superpowers/relevant 21st Century Nations which limits its commercial potential.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Hinato » Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 12:13

La Ligue Nationale de Rugby va soutenir la création de la Pro League nippone. Toulon et Lyon sont prêts à collaborer avec des franchises japonaises dans le cadre d'un nouveau partenariat. http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/top1 ... tic-league

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 01:58

Canadian_Rugger wrote:If SANZAAR were smart, they would invest (not money, they have none) in both Japan and the US. I feel like they have only begun to scratch the surface of the commercial potential of those two nations.

65000 to watch NZ All Blacks smash USA Eagles but it made a lot of money. People in Japan and USA will show up to big test matches but it needs to be proper tests.

If USA Eagles and Brave Blossoms were getting regular competition, they would get better, they would also quickly draw considerably more corporate support and money.

This would also give Rugby more credibility as a legit International sport. Rugby is really not popular in any of the real Superpowers/relevant 21st Century Nations which limits its commercial potential.


I agree. Nothing financial but in terms of coaching development etc. for sure. Could even look at doing some player exchange by sending some of our talented up and comers over on for a season or so while bringing development players over to the respective SANZAAR nations to give them some more exposure to professional environments.

Id also like to see at the very least Aus/NZ get involved in the PNC. The 3 PI's, USA and Canada plus Japan. Split it into two pools of 4. Play it over 2 years with the goal of everyone playing everyone (with the exception of Aus playing NZ as they'll meet in the RC which will also count toward this) once. That would mean one year Canada would play say Fiji, Japan and the ABs and the next Tonga, Samoa and Australia.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 04:30

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Canadian_Rugger wrote:If SANZAAR were smart, they would invest (not money, they have none) in both Japan and the US. I feel like they have only begun to scratch the surface of the commercial potential of those two nations.

65000 to watch NZ All Blacks smash USA Eagles but it made a lot of money. People in Japan and USA will show up to big test matches but it needs to be proper tests.

If USA Eagles and Brave Blossoms were getting regular competition, they would get better, they would also quickly draw considerably more corporate support and money.

This would also give Rugby more credibility as a legit International sport. Rugby is really not popular in any of the real Superpowers/relevant 21st Century Nations which limits its commercial potential.


I agree. Nothing financial but in terms of coaching development etc. for sure. Could even look at doing some player exchange by sending some of our talented up and comers over on for a season or so while bringing development players over to the respective SANZAAR nations to give them some more exposure to professional environments.

Id also like to see at the very least Aus/NZ get involved in the PNC. The 3 PI's, USA and Canada plus Japan. Split it into two pools of 4. Play it over 2 years with the goal of everyone playing everyone (with the exception of Aus playing NZ as they'll meet in the RC which will also count toward this) once. That would mean one year Canada would play say Fiji, Japan and the ABs and the next Tonga, Samoa and Australia.


The Rugby Championship and Super Rugby are basically tapped out as far as commercial ventures are concerned. There is no more room for growth in any of the markets with the exception of Argentina.

The upside potential of a long term plan to include both the US and Japan is immense. Even if MLR were to become as popular as MLS is which isn't a stretch, rugby is so small time that it would be one of the Premier rugby leagues in the world.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Coloradoan » Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 05:35

Canadian_Rugger wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Canadian_Rugger wrote:If SANZAAR were smart, they would invest (not money, they have none) in both Japan and the US. I feel like they have only begun to scratch the surface of the commercial potential of those two nations.

65000 to watch NZ All Blacks smash USA Eagles but it made a lot of money. People in Japan and USA will show up to big test matches but it needs to be proper tests.

If USA Eagles and Brave Blossoms were getting regular competition, they would get better, they would also quickly draw considerably more corporate support and money.

This would also give Rugby more credibility as a legit International sport. Rugby is really not popular in any of the real Superpowers/relevant 21st Century Nations which limits its commercial potential.


I agree. Nothing financial but in terms of coaching development etc. for sure. Could even look at doing some player exchange by sending some of our talented up and comers over on for a season or so while bringing development players over to the respective SANZAAR nations to give them some more exposure to professional environments.

Id also like to see at the very least Aus/NZ get involved in the PNC. The 3 PI's, USA and Canada plus Japan. Split it into two pools of 4. Play it over 2 years with the goal of everyone playing everyone (with the exception of Aus playing NZ as they'll meet in the RC which will also count toward this) once. That would mean one year Canada would play say Fiji, Japan and the ABs and the next Tonga, Samoa and Australia.


The Rugby Championship and Super Rugby are basically tapped out as far as commercial ventures are concerned. There is no more room for growth in any of the markets with the exception of Argentina.

The upside potential of a long term plan to include both the US and Japan is immense. Even if MLR were to become as popular as MLS is which isn't a stretch, rugby is so small time that it would be one of the Premier rugby leagues in the world.


No room for growth in Australia? It might be tough to grow, but they're nowhere near tapped out in Australia.

Getting a long term plan with Japan makes a lot more sense than the US for them IMO. Not just the obvious boost from the RWC but also the time zones make sense and there is less jetlag for the players.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 24 Oct 2019, 05:58

Coloradoan wrote:
Canadian_Rugger wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Canadian_Rugger wrote:If SANZAAR were smart, they would invest (not money, they have none) in both Japan and the US. I feel like they have only begun to scratch the surface of the commercial potential of those two nations.

65000 to watch NZ All Blacks smash USA Eagles but it made a lot of money. People in Japan and USA will show up to big test matches but it needs to be proper tests.

If USA Eagles and Brave Blossoms were getting regular competition, they would get better, they would also quickly draw considerably more corporate support and money.

This would also give Rugby more credibility as a legit International sport. Rugby is really not popular in any of the real Superpowers/relevant 21st Century Nations which limits its commercial potential.


I agree. Nothing financial but in terms of coaching development etc. for sure. Could even look at doing some player exchange by sending some of our talented up and comers over on for a season or so while bringing development players over to the respective SANZAAR nations to give them some more exposure to professional environments.

Id also like to see at the very least Aus/NZ get involved in the PNC. The 3 PI's, USA and Canada plus Japan. Split it into two pools of 4. Play it over 2 years with the goal of everyone playing everyone (with the exception of Aus playing NZ as they'll meet in the RC which will also count toward this) once. That would mean one year Canada would play say Fiji, Japan and the ABs and the next Tonga, Samoa and Australia.


The Rugby Championship and Super Rugby are basically tapped out as far as commercial ventures are concerned. There is no more room for growth in any of the markets with the exception of Argentina.

The upside potential of a long term plan to include both the US and Japan is immense. Even if MLR were to become as popular as MLS is which isn't a stretch, rugby is so small time that it would be one of the Premier rugby leagues in the world.


No room for growth in Australia? It might be tough to grow, but they're nowhere near tapped out in Australia.

Getting a long term plan with Japan makes a lot more sense than the US for them IMO. Not just the obvious boost from the RWC but also the time zones make sense and there is less jetlag for the players.


There's huge growth in Australia if the game was ever run competently and with structures in place that appealed commercially to our networks. It's honestly what I consider SANZAAR's biggest failing. Either the complete oversight or intentional neglect of it's biggest market. As for time zones. It's a bit of 6 of one, half dozen of the other in that regard. Japan is perfect for Aus and NZ but not so for SA and Arg. North America on the other hand is much closer to SA time wise (not perfect but doable) and much better for Argentina.

Besides. I'm talking a partnering with the likes of MLR to help develop it's professional structures in order to boost it's quality and a few games a year on the international level. All very workable.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Hinato » Tue, 05 Nov 2019, 09:34

- Katsuyuki Kiyomiya veut lancer la Pro League en 2021 avec 8 équipes au final (4 à 6 clubs de Top League intéressés)
- stade de 10 000 places minimum requis pour les clubs
- ouverture obligatoire aux capitaux étrangers
- intégrer les meilleurs joueurs (japonais et étrangers) de la Top League
- objectif: atteindre les 12 sites de la coupe du monde de rugby de 2019 plus tard

=> clubs certains pour l'heure: Sunwolves (Fukuoka, Level-5 Stadium) et Panasonic Wild Knights (Kumagaya, Kumagaya Rugby Stadium).

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 05 Nov 2019, 11:25

Google translate:

- Katsuyuki Kiyomiya wants to start the Pro League in 2021 with 8 teams in the end (4 to 6 interested Top League clubs)
- minimum stadium of 10,000 places required for clubs
- compulsory opening to foreign capital
- integrate the best players (Japanese and foreign) from the Top League
- goal: to reach the 12 sites of the Rugby World Cup 2019 later

=> some clubs for now: Sunwolves (Fukuoka, Level-5 Stadium) and Panasonic Wild Knights (Kumagaya, Kumagaya Rugby Stadium).

So, 8 teams to start in 2021. I'm guessing 14 rounds plus playoffs.

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Rugga » Tue, 05 Nov 2019, 15:13

So they'll start with 8 clubs and with a goal of 12?

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby Hinato » Thu, 07 Nov 2019, 20:24

Quand on va sur le site de Hyundai Glovis (club de rugby fondé en 2015), on tombe sur ceci. Les sud-coréens demandent aux japonais de les prendre depuis des années. Je serai Kiyomiya, je penserai à incorporer ce club dans la future Pro League en 2021.

Image

Si Katsuyuki Kiyomiya demande un stade de minimum 10 000 places, celui de Hyundai Glovis, le Namdong Asiad Rugby Stadium (5 078 places), paraît déjà bien suffisant tout comme celui de Kamaishi (qui est revenu à 6 000 places après la coupe du monde de rugby de 2019). L'autre atout de la Corée du sud est géographique. La distance Incheon-Tokyo (1 182 km) est quasiment la même que celle de Sapporo-Tokyo (989 km).

Image

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Re: New Japanese pro league

Postby ficcp » Thu, 07 Nov 2019, 22:29

Hinato : very good contribution. Korean Rugby is mostly unknown in our region although they toured our country a couple of years ago
I was surprised to know that Koo, the Brave Blossoms prop, was korean.
It would be an interesting introduction into the Korean Market, which was one of the targets of RWC 2019 in Japan.

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