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Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby victorsra » Thu, 17 Oct 2019, 16:03

TheStroBro wrote:
snapper37 wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with what their doing now, each team has to work to get there and if a team misses out the through direct qualification than the repechage is the avenue. This years world cup is odd because two teams were caught cheating. Using the ARC as a qualification looks interesting as the teams in south america are getting stronger and deserve more game time.

This may be the last world cup Canada attends in awhile. With Direct out of ARC qualification Canada won't be able to get by USA or Uruguay, and Brazil is turning into a dog fight also. Plus add those two cheating teams back to the repercahge and Canada doesn't have a chance.


Auto-qualification for anyone but the host and previous champion is really dumb. I'd be good for a reduction to 5 slots though as part of a pathway to that. Host+Previous SFs. World Rugby was like: oh not enough money in the game, need to make more money, less friendlies blah blah blah...an easy way to do that is have more qualifying games.


The wrong thing is to reward Cartel Nations achievements in the RWC un-estimulating them to play other nations. A Qualy make them get out of their own cartel world.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 02:37

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Return_of_BG_97 wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:
victorsra wrote:I don't see why Asia-Oceania don't follow South American-North America steps. Two different federations, but one unified top league.


This would be the ideal situation because it would me the path to qualification will be a lot tougher, and frankly more meaningful. I keep saying this but qualifiers have to be given more value for the sport. We have to do away with 12 automatic qualifiers, it makes for a boring qualification process.


I think the problem there is that, for Europe at least, you'd have some heavily overpowered 6N team (Scotland, Italy, or hell even France on a bad year) destroy REC sides who aren't even fully pro. Georgia and Romania would hold their own to some extent as well as Russia, but after that things would get very lopsided, and fast.

It would give the likes of Spain or Germany a valuable game, but it would be decided well before kickoff. .


You are aware, that Spain is actually a better team than Russia (and at least in the two RECs better than Romania)? Germany got relegated, Portugal never use their massive French diaspora. Europe is the region, which got hold down by World Rugby politics the most. It has not only by far the most rugby playing nations with 36 nations playing on 5 (!) levels with promotion and relegation, but also a LOT of potential.
The outcome might be decided in advance, but the reason it is, is simply that those European nations never get to play the highest possible level. By your point the World Cup should have been reduced to 12 teams, when Japan got trashed. Don't follow this stupid narrative which kept rugby from having the global status it should have, as it is the greatest game on earth.
The European nations don't need anybody protecting them from trashings, they need those games on a regular basis to improve instead.


I don't disagree, but at the end of the day the jobs of these unions/federations is to grow the game and improve it, qualifying games will help but it's not the cure-all.

And Asia is an example where this didn't really work; South Korea have stagnated and Hong Kong is incrementally improving. Neither will be challenging Japan any time soon, and South Korea won't be RWC ready barring mass changes.

But again, I don't disagree with your point overall and the 6N/TRC etc have a responsibility to grow the game.

EDIT: I just realized that a qualifying game between say, England and Germany would probably bring a hell lot more attention than a normal REC game. Might it end in a century? Sure. But there would be more eyeballs, and probably a lot more people willing to invest in the sport in those countries.

victorsra wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
snapper37 wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with what their doing now, each team has to work to get there and if a team misses out the through direct qualification than the repechage is the avenue. This years world cup is odd because two teams were caught cheating. Using the ARC as a qualification looks interesting as the teams in south america are getting stronger and deserve more game time.

This may be the last world cup Canada attends in awhile. With Direct out of ARC qualification Canada won't be able to get by USA or Uruguay, and Brazil is turning into a dog fight also. Plus add those two cheating teams back to the repercahge and Canada doesn't have a chance.


Auto-qualification for anyone but the host and previous champion is really dumb. I'd be good for a reduction to 5 slots though as part of a pathway to that. Host+Previous SFs. World Rugby was like: oh not enough money in the game, need to make more money, less friendlies blah blah blah...an easy way to do that is have more qualifying games.


The wrong thing is to reward Cartel Nations achievements in the RWC un-estimulating them to play other nations. A Qualy make them get out of their own cartel world.


Cartel nations, hehe. Actually a UEFA-style qualifying tourney for Euro rugby teams would be kinda fun to watch. It might mean seeing England pummel Portugal in one match but maybe we'd get a tense qualifying match between Georgia and Scotland in another day.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 03:29

The fear with having all the T1 teams play qualifiers is that they would just end up being a waste of time. To me, that's kinda besides the point. There are groups within FIFA's qualifying that are also easy to predict. This is Australia's group in the first round of the football Qualifiers:

Australia
Jordan
Kuwait
Nepal
Taiwan

Seriously, this is as much as waste of our time as it would be seeing England in rugby win a group with Spain and Germany, and yet soccer does it anyway.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby antlat » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 06:19

The fear with having all the T1 teams play qualifiers is that they would just end up being a waste of time. To me, that's kinda besides the point. There are groups within FIFA's qualifying that are also easy to predict. This is Australia's group in the first round of the football Qualifiers:

Australia
Jordan
Kuwait
Nepal
Taiwan

Seriously, this is as much as waste of our time as it would be seeing England in rugby win a group with Spain and Germany, and yet soccer does it anyway.


This is the atitude that kills any potential growth of rugby as a sport. The reason is simply because every member nation of FIFA has the right to expect a pathway into the FIFA World Cup. Besides Jordan has troubled the Socceroos many times at their home ground.

People cry out for Tier 1 vs Tier 2 games outside of World Cups and the Tier 1 for the most part have always turned around and say why waste my time.

When you have proper regional championships in place and all encompassing qualifying tournaments for the World Cup and Regional Championships, it forces the power nations to play the lower nations. This is whats lacking in Rugby.
FIFA may have gone too far in their tournaments slightly but Id rather their tournament structures or FIBA Basketball tournament structures over World Rugby's Friendly dominated calendar.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 06:54

Return_of_BG_97 wrote:EDIT: I just realized that a qualifying game between say, England and Germany would probably bring a hell lot more attention than a normal REC game. Might it end in a century? Sure. But there would be more eyeballs, and probably a lot more people willing to invest in the sport in those countries.


That's the exact point. 10k peaceful English (something we've never heard of in German sports before) coming over for a day of beer and rugby makes headlines and creates interest. The trashing is just part of the narrative (virtually unknown sport with great fans, we need to improve, opportunities are there).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 08:59

antlat wrote:
This is the atitude that kills any potential growth of rugby as a sport. The reason is simply because every member nation of FIFA has the right to expect a pathway into the FIFA World Cup. Besides Jordan has troubled the Socceroos many times at their home ground.

People cry out for Tier 1 vs Tier 2 games outside of World Cups and the Tier 1 for the most part have always turned around and say why waste my time.

When you have proper regional championships in place and all encompassing qualifying tournaments for the World Cup and Regional Championships, it forces the power nations to play the lower nations. This is whats lacking in Rugby.
FIFA may have gone too far in their tournaments slightly but Id rather their tournament structures or FIBA Basketball tournament structures over World Rugby's Friendly dominated calendar.


FIFA have gone overboard with their nonsensical decision to expand to 48 teams, making qualifying even more pointless. For all the talk about the Nation League earlier this year, if we had a proper qualifying process for all nations that would more than generate enough interest to attract sponsors and TV networks. Turning the RC and 6N into part of the qualification process would frankly solve multiple problems.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby brules » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 10:20

RugbyLiebe wrote: The trashing is just part of the narrative (virtually unknown sport with great fans, we need to improve, opportunities are there).

Rather than the final score, one aspect to keep in mind is the risk of injuries for non-pro players.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 10:24

There are barely any fully non-pro players nowadays at REC level. And we often overestimate the level of strength and conditioning in some professional leagues.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby brules » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 10:31

Actually UEFA with the nation league is going much further: all divisions are assigned a spot in the EuroCup. So one country between Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia and Macedonia will qualify to EURO 2020 as winners of their Division D groups (even if they are typically at the bottom of their regular qualification groups).
Actually this is possible mainly because 24 countries qualify out of 55... but the idea is that something highly unfair (you do not bring to the final stage the 24 best teams) is acceptable because it gives visibility and hope to everybody.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 11:30

UEFA expanding to 24 was as ridiculous as FIFA expanding to 48. It diminishes the qualifying process. Rugby has the opposite problem. The qualifiers don't have enough value.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 11:54

brules wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote: The trashing is just part of the narrative (virtually unknown sport with great fans, we need to improve, opportunities are there).

Rather than the final score, one aspect to keep in mind is the risk of injuries for non-pro players.


Have you ever lost by a century? I have. Believe me injuries are not the issue in a mismatch, when they simply run and pass around you, especially with the way rugby is played nowadays.

Apart from that: this is the biggest bullshit argument floating around for years. If you can play Georgian or Romanian forwards, do you really believe that you are afraid of anyone else playing the classical and a bit dark forward style in the world? As a fact that's what most of the improving nations do first: build a strong and vicious pack.

Rewatch the Brazilian scrum literally destroying the NZ Maoris.
Those non-pro-players (are way more at risk in the other matches). It is not that the cartel nations miraculously are super humans just by entering the cartel.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby antlat » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 16:15

Yes 48 nations in FIFA World Cup is way too many.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby victorsra » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 17:39

antlat wrote:Yes 48 nations in FIFA World Cup is way too many.


But soccer has like 100 countries or more with professional leagues... Apart from some Asian or Concacaf teams, almost everybody can produce at least a boring draw against a favorite.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby CraigChalmers » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 18:55

I am totally on board with the idea of everyone other than the hosts having to play qualifiers (I wouldn't even give the holders a bye).

Thinking about how this could work in practice - in Europe, the only teams who currently get a shot at a European (ie. not the Repechage) spot are the 6N (from previous RWC performance) and REC Championship. So why not combine these 2?

Assuming Europe retains it's current 8.5 places, simplest way I can see of doing this* is to have 4 pools of 3 teams - meaning something like:

Pool A: England, Scotland, Spain

Pool B: France, Italy, Russia

Pool C: Ireland, Georgia, Belgium

Pool D: Wales, Romania, Portugal

4 games per team, with 6N/REC games being used for teams in the same competition. Remaining games could comfortably be played in the summer/autumn windows in between the championships being used. Top 2 qualify, with the pool winners being given a higher seeding for the finals draw (to ensure there is a benefit to winning v coming second) I'd then like to see the 4 No. 3rd place sides play off against the next 4 best teams from the lower REC divisions, with the winners playing off for the repechage place.

This would ensure greater exposure to higher ranked sides for everyone in REC Championship, and would also offer greater exposure to the Trophy sides with 4 of them getting a shot at the Repechage place, however isn't likely to throw up many games that are a bigger mis-match than current RWC Finals matches. Every match would have implications for qualification or seedings for the finals draw.

*simplest way for qualification; 3 pools of 4 would be preferable IMO, but how you allocate the final 2 places becomes something of an issue. And by using the existing championship games, pools of 4 wouldn't actually require any additional matches for half the teams involved v 4 pools of 3. I'm assuming that a full UEFA style 36 odd team qualify competition is never going to happen. Sadly, if it were to ever happen, I expect the first stage would see the top 3 or 4 teams over 2 6N campaigns take the first 4 spots, with only the remaining 2 having to play REC sides. Although even that would still be an improvement on the present arrangement.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby CraigChalmers » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 18:59

thatrugbyguy wrote:UEFA expanding to 24 was as ridiculous as FIFA expanding to 48. It diminishes the qualifying process. Rugby has the opposite problem. The qualifiers don't have enough value.


Try telling the Tartan Army that :(

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby snapper37 » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 19:35

Return_of_BG_97 wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Return_of_BG_97 wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:
victorsra wrote:I don't see why Asia-Oceania don't follow South American-North America steps. Two different federations, but one unified top league.


This would be the ideal situation because it would me the path to qualification will be a lot tougher, and frankly more meaningful. I keep saying this but qualifiers have to be given more value for the sport. We have to do away with 12 automatic qualifiers, it makes for a boring qualification process.


I think the problem there is that, for Europe at least, you'd have some heavily overpowered 6N team (Scotland, Italy, or hell even France on a bad year) destroy REC sides who aren't even fully pro. Georgia and Romania would hold their own to some extent as well as Russia, but after that things would get very lopsided, and fast.

It would give the likes of Spain or Germany a valuable game, but it would be decided well before kickoff. .


You are aware, that Spain is actually a better team than Russia (and at least in the two RECs better than Romania)? Germany got relegated, Portugal never use their massive French diaspora. Europe is the region, which got hold down by World Rugby politics the most. It has not only by far the most rugby playing nations with 36 nations playing on 5 (!) levels with promotion and relegation, but also a LOT of potential.
The outcome might be decided in advance, but the reason it is, is simply that those European nations never get to play the highest possible level. By your point the World Cup should have been reduced to 12 teams, when Japan got trashed. Don't follow this stupid narrative which kept rugby from having the global status it should have, as it is the greatest game on earth.
The European nations don't need anybody protecting them from trashings, they need those games on a regular basis to improve instead.


I don't disagree, but at the end of the day the jobs of these unions/federations is to grow the game and improve it, qualifying games will help but it's not the cure-all.

And Asia is an example where this didn't really work; South Korea have stagnated and Hong Kong is incrementally improving. Neither will be challenging Japan any time soon, and South Korea won't be RWC ready barring mass changes.

But again, I don't disagree with your point overall and the 6N/TRC etc have a responsibility to grow the game.

EDIT: I just realized that a qualifying game between say, England and Germany would probably bring a hell lot more attention than a normal REC game. Might it end in a century? Sure. But there would be more eyeballs, and probably a lot more people willing to invest in the sport in those countries.

victorsra wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
snapper37 wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with what their doing now, each team has to work to get there and if a team misses out the through direct qualification than the repechage is the avenue. This years world cup is odd because two teams were caught cheating. Using the ARC as a qualification looks interesting as the teams in south america are getting stronger and deserve more game time.

This may be the last world cup Canada attends in awhile. With Direct out of ARC qualification Canada won't be able to get by USA or Uruguay, and Brazil is turning into a dog fight also. Plus add those two cheating teams back to the repercahge and Canada doesn't have a chance.


Auto-qualification for anyone but the host and previous champion is really dumb. I'd be good for a reduction to 5 slots though as part of a pathway to that. Host+Previous SFs. World Rugby was like: oh not enough money in the game, need to make more money, less friendlies blah blah blah...an easy way to do that is have more qualifying games.


The wrong thing is to reward Cartel Nations achievements in the RWC un-estimulating them to play other nations. A Qualy make them get out of their own cartel world.


Cartel nations, hehe. Actually a UEFA-style qualifying tourney for Euro rugby teams would be kinda fun to watch. It might mean seeing England pummel Portugal in one match but maybe we'd get a tense qualifying match between Georgia and Scotland in another day.



Who would invest in a nation after losses of over a hundred, the youth won't play it. fans encage when they see their nation competing and winning. Its no secret Canada's demise in playing numbers is impart due to our national team sucking....

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby snapper37 » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 19:38

antlat wrote:
The fear with having all the T1 teams play qualifiers is that they would just end up being a waste of time. To me, that's kinda besides the point. There are groups within FIFA's qualifying that are also easy to predict. This is Australia's group in the first round of the football Qualifiers:

Australia
Jordan
Kuwait
Nepal
Taiwan

Seriously, this is as much as waste of our time as it would be seeing England in rugby win a group with Spain and Germany, and yet soccer does it anyway.


This is the atitude that kills any potential growth of rugby as a sport. The reason is simply because every member nation of FIFA has the right to expect a pathway into the FIFA World Cup. Besides Jordan has troubled the Socceroos many times at their home ground.

People cry out for Tier 1 vs Tier 2 games outside of World Cups and the Tier 1 for the most part have always turned around and say why waste my time.

When you have proper regional championships in place and all encompassing qualifying tournaments for the World Cup and Regional Championships, it forces the power nations to play the lower nations. This is whats lacking in Rugby.
FIFA may have gone too far in their tournaments slightly but Id rather their tournament structures or FIBA Basketball tournament structures over World Rugby's Friendly dominated calendar.



It would be a waste of time. and could result in a nasty injury due to such amateurs playing professionals (ivory coast in 95 resulted in a broken neck). Soccer is a terrible comparison as there is no contact in soccer.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 19:46

But Max Brito accident happened against a Tier 2 in RWC where rugby wasn't officially professional yet... Moreover we've made a long way since then.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 19 Oct 2019, 08:17

snapper37 wrote:
Who would invest in a nation after losses of over a hundred, the youth won't play it. fans encage when they see their nation competing and winning. Its no secret Canada's demise in playing numbers is impart due to our national team sucking....


Yeah, there is no really famous example of a team conceding over 140 points in a match then becoming a T1 nation a generation later ...

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Edgar » Sat, 19 Oct 2019, 08:52

victorsra wrote:
antlat wrote:Yes 48 nations in FIFA World Cup is way too many.


But soccer has like 100 countries or more with professional leagues... Apart from some Asian or Concacaf teams, almost everybody can produce at least a boring draw against a favorite.


I think what has made football a global game, however, is the preponderance of foreign players in European club competition. This has helped bring African teams up to speed, in particular. The process had begun even before the Bosman ruling of 1995, but the subsequent scrapping of the 3-foreigner rule revolutionized both club football and the international game. French rugby is already serving the same role, but how many other professional competitions are completely open to foreigners? Obviously the so-called emerging nations should be encouraged to develop their own leagues, but in certain parts of the world there simply isn't the money for professionalism. The new Japanese pro league is apparently going to be open to foreign signings. This could attract Pacific Islanders currently plying their trade in Europe, as they will be much closer to home. If so, that is going to leave a lot of gaps to fill in Europe and perhaps Sub-Saharan Africa will be one of the beneficiaries.

As for qualifying, I've always said it should go back to where it was at the end of last century, when all but the top 3 qualified, and first, second and third tier rubbed shoulders in independent regional competitions.

The Rise & Fall of World Cup Qualifying: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/03/29/t ... ualifying/

Update:
Today's results in Europe
Serbia 30 Turkey 15
Cyprus 20 Croatia 25
Slovenia 28 Israel 28
Last edited by Edgar on Sat, 19 Oct 2019, 14:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 19 Oct 2019, 10:54

I actually do think there is a benefit for T1 to qualify also. Having seen the Wallabies bumble their way out of the world cup there's currently nothing that's going to force change within Rugby Australia. If Australia is guaranteed a place at the world cup then they are never going to be forced to make any hard decisions. If the threat of failing to qualify was hanging over their heads things would change quickly, especially now when a team like Fiji has improved dramatically. Complacency has prevented change from happening in Australia. Having to qualify would change that.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby victorsra » Sat, 19 Oct 2019, 11:53

Edgar wrote:
victorsra wrote:
antlat wrote:Yes 48 nations in FIFA World Cup is way too many.


But soccer has like 100 countries or more with professional leagues... Apart from some Asian or Concacaf teams, almost everybody can produce at least a boring draw against a favorite.


I think what has made football a global game, however, is the preponderance of foreign players in European club competition. This has helped bring African teams up to speed, in particular. The process had begun even before the Bosman ruling of 1995, but the subsequent scrapping of the 3-foreigner rule revolutionized both club football and the international game. French rugby is already serving the same role, but how many other professional competitions are completely open to foreigners? Obviously the so-called emerging nations should be encouraged to develop their own leagues, but in certain parts of the world there simply isn't the money for professionalism. The new Japanese pro league is apparently going to be open to foreign signings. This could attract Pacific Islanders currently plying their trade in Europe, as they will be much closer to home. If so, that is going to leave a lot of gaps to fill in Europe and perhaps Sub-Saharan Africa will be one of the beneficiaries.

As for qualifying, I've always said it should go back to where it was at the end of last century, when all but the top 3 qualified, and first, second and third tier rubbed shoulders in independent regional competitions.

The Rise & Fall of World Cup Qualifying: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/03/29/t ... ualifying/


Yes, but not only this. There are many leagues outside Europe that help minor nations offering space for players. For exemple, Brazilian, Argentine and Mexican leagues (and MLS too) serve as a next step for many players in the Americas. Asian leagues are heavy importers (and not big exporters, although many Asians found space in Europe too). North African leagues buy Sub-Saharian African players a lot too, as they are usualy more professional leagues. However, most African nations have professional leagues, that might not be that good, but players start their careers as pros even before reaching those stronger leagues.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 01:18

sk 88 wrote:
snapper37 wrote:
Who would invest in a nation after losses of over a hundred, the youth won't play it. fans encage when they see their nation competing and winning. Its no secret Canada's demise in playing numbers is impart due to our national team sucking....


Yeah, there is no really famous example of a team conceding over 140 points in a match then becoming a T1 nation a generation later ...


25 years on and a lot has changed. But Japan fielding a team of solely Japanese born and developed players is still a way off. If Canada had the ability to field a team with 10 foreign highly developed players im sure we wouldn't be as shitty as we are.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby antlat » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 07:59

Found this about North/Central America and Caribbean Qualifying for the 2022 FIFA World Cup

On 10 July 2019, CONCACAF announced a restructured qualifying format for the 2022 FIFA World Cup.[2] After CONCACAF initially announced in March 2018 that they would use the CONCACAF Ranking Index to determine the seeding of CONCACAF teams for qualifying to international tournaments,[3] it was determined that FIFA Rankings would be used instead.

Top-seeded Hexagonal group: The top 6 ranked CONCACAF teams based on the FIFA rankings of June 2020 will play home-and-away round-robin matches in one single group (often referred to as the "Hexagonal"). The top three teams will qualify for the World Cup, and the fourth-placed team will advance to the CONCACAF play-off round.
Lower-seeded group stage and knockout stage: The remaining CONCACAF teams (ranked 7 to 35 based on the FIFA rankings of June 2020) will be divided into eight groups (five groups of four teams and three groups of three teams) to play home-and-away round-robin matches. The winners of each group will advance to a knockout stage, consisting of the quarter-finals, semi-finals and final to be played in a two-legged home-and-away series. The winner of the knockout stage will advance to the CONCACAF play-off round.
Play-off round: The fourth-placed team of the Hexagonal group will face the winner of the knockout stage in order to advance to the inter-confederation play-offs.


Perhaps something similar could be introduced into each region( Asia/Oceania, Africa, Americas and Europe) for Rugby World Cup Qualifying????

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 08:54

snapper37 wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
snapper37 wrote:
Who would invest in a nation after losses of over a hundred, the youth won't play it. fans encage when they see their nation competing and winning. Its no secret Canada's demise in playing numbers is impart due to our national team sucking....


Yeah, there is no really famous example of a team conceding over 140 points in a match then becoming a T1 nation a generation later ...


25 years on and a lot has changed. But Japan fielding a team of solely Japanese born and developed players is still a way off. If Canada had the ability to field a team with 10 foreign highly developed players im sure we wouldn't be as shitty as we are.


If Samoa and Tonga could only play with their players, they would probably be beaten by Canada. At least the Japanese do develop their foreign talent, which is a lot better than what most nations do. Let's face it: rugby is a great but extremely flawed sport, where leagues and competitions are simply not open. This is the main reason we have so many foreign born players.

snapper37 wrote:Who would invest in a nation after losses of over a hundred, the youth won't play it. fans encage when they see their nation competing and winning. Its no secret Canada's demise in playing numbers is impart due to our national team sucking....



Point is, we are at a point were only 25 nations worldwide ever seriously competed in 32 years and we are now 12 years away from seeing a new face at the RWC. All the others never took part and are excluded to ever play the best nations and are not even in a state to get serious sponsors.

With Canada, from what I read in your Canadian thread, there is nobody else to blame instead of Canada. And maybe they stuck to the amateur days to long until it was too late and all the other nations left them behind as well. Sad story, but that's also sport. Nations fall and rise in sport. And from an objective point, that is a good thing. We have to break this dangerous cartel-nations-mindset, that everything must always stay the same. It won't. The British Empire is long history, welcome to the 21st century.

Apart from that, the next person pointing out the old fairy tale, that any of the candidates for a 24 team World Cup has forwards in danger of being hurt by any team in the World Cup, will receive a virtual slap in the face from me. Smaller nations will always have a strong pack first, before they even reach the chance of qualifying for the RWC. And no cartel-nations don't miraculously lift more than the other nations just because their exclusive cartel membership. Those are the typical British excuses (too dangerous, will destroy their game, not organized good enough, hotel beds not comfy enough for our U18, we will learn more from playing somebody else). Never ever buy into any of those.

Last but not least:
I said it four years ago, I say it now, I will again say it in another 4 years: those two months playing and training together before the RWC still make a HUGE difference for non-cartel-teams as they never get this time together, but the cartel-nations do.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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