Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Awards of the Decade 2010s

Posts: 714
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby Edgar » Mon, 09 Dec 2019, 20:29

Awards of the Decade

Just to get the ball rolling. Feel free to add your own choices and categories.

Event of the Decade: Olympics 7s. Fiji's emphatic win the stuff of fairy-tales

Honorable mention: 2019 RWC, despite the typhoons, produced a stunning final, Japan's own success and Uruguay's surprise win over Fiji.

Disappointment: African Gold Cup, lopsided results, acrimony between teams, administrative manipulation leading to eventual collapse

Match of the Decade: 2019 World Cup final, had it all, minor upset in terms of result, non-white captain and try-scorers - Boks' first ever tries in a final.

Honorable mention: Japan's win over Boks at 2015 RWC might just have been the biggest upset ever.

Disappointment: More than one of the play-off games at the 2011 RWC spring to mind, but I'll go with the NZ vs Lions finale in 2017 when a dodgy call at the end denied the latter.

1st tier Team of the Decade: New Zealand, 2/3 RWCs, overwhelming domination of the rankings, multiple RC titles, etc, etc.

Honorable mentions - SAfrica - 2019 RWC, Argentina - 2nd RWC semi-final appearance (2015)

Disappointment - Italy, successive spoons in the 6 Nations, no wins in sight and still can't make the RWC quarters.

2nd tier Team of the Decade: Japan, has beaten SA, Ireland and Scotland at the last 2 RWCs, as well as Samoa (twice), and reached the quarterfinals this year.

Honorable mentions: US - 2017/2018 ARC champs, win over Scotland. Fiji beat France in Paris, among other achievements

Disappointment - Romania/Canada. Oaks disqualified from 2019 World Cup and also managed to lose to Germany. Canada hasn't made any impression for a long while and had to qualify for this year's World Cup through the repechages.

3rd tier Team of the Decade: Brazil, 2018 South American champions, wins over USA, Canada and Argentina A to their credit

Honorable mention - Algeria. Have pretty much come from nowhere to reach the top division in African rugby.

Disappointment - Kenya, cannon-fodder for Canada, Germany & Hong Kong at the World Cup repechages, and losing at home to other 3rd tier teams they used to beat not so long ago.

Exciting Development of the Decade: MLR really taking off, expanding nicely, producing great play-offs and attracting lots of foreign talent

Honorable mention - GRR: Off the ground with its pilot series, promises to take pro rugby into new frontier

Disappointment - Super 18: A convoluted format with a couple of inept teams, ridiculous travel requirements for some and big thumbs down from the fans

Posts: 2625
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 09:18
Location: Bucharest
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby amz » Mon, 09 Dec 2019, 20:42

Edgar wrote:Disappointment: More than one of the play-off games at the 2011 RWC spring to mind, but I'll go with the NZ vs Lions finale in 2017 when a dodgy call at the end denied the latter.


What about USA winning only 1 game at 3 RWCs, in a decade, a close one vs Russia in 2011? And losing to home to Uruguay, Canada (2011, 2013), Georgia or away to Brazil. Considering how many times USA had the chance vs T1 you would have thought they can't lose home vs weaker teams on paper or teams that started to play good test rugby 2-3 years ago.

Posts: 3203
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 10 Dec 2019, 08:27

Technically the decade lasts one more year, as there was no year Zero, but I think the 0-9 is easier to follow.

Event of the Decade: Japan 2019, simply because it might show the rugby world, that there is more than the Commonwealth.

Honorable mention: Olympics

Disappointment: the dismissal of the Heidelberger RK from the Challenge Cup, because their benefactor Wild owns Stade Francais => still different rules for the rugby aristocracy.


Match of the Decade: Japan's win over South Africa

Honorable mention: Japan's win over Ireland

Disappointment: subjective but Germany missing out on the World 7s Series due to an overtime try by Japan in the HK final 2018. Worst I've ever feeled about a rugby game.


Cartel nation Team of the Decade: Japan as it broke into it

Honorable mentions: New Zealand

Disappointment: England, a lot of promise, but mostly failed when it counted on many occasions (group stage exit in 2015 as the pinnacle of failure)


Non-cartel nation Team of the Decade: Georgia (first non-cartel-nation from Europe to auto-qualify

Honorable mentions: Uruguay

Disappointment: Germany due to the rise and fall in just one decade

There is no third tier, just nations also excluded from the rugby Arpartheid by the cartel nations.


Exciting Development of the Decade: at least some more tests for non-cartel-nations against the cartel

Honorable mention: Scotland playing in Georgia

Disappointment - the Home Nations and Italy leaving the U18 Euro championship, after Ireland and Scotland were facing relegation. A huge blow to rugby development in Europe and one of the most unsportsmanlike things I've ever seen in any sport.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 1061
Joined: Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 09:56
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 10 Dec 2019, 08:50

RugbyLiebe wrote:Disappointment - the Home Nations and Italy leaving the U18 Euro championship, after Ireland and Scotland were facing relegation. A huge blow to rugby development in Europe and one of the most unsportsmanlike things I've ever seen in any sport.


This - still unbelievable. Stopping the growing of a sport in a continent.

Posts: 714
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby Edgar » Tue, 10 Dec 2019, 09:44

amz wrote:
Edgar wrote:Disappointment: More than one of the play-off games at the 2011 RWC spring to mind, but I'll go with the NZ vs Lions finale in 2017 when a dodgy call at the end denied the latter.


What about USA winning only 1 game at 3 RWCs, in a decade, a close one vs Russia in 2011? And losing to home to Uruguay, Canada (2011, 2013), Georgia or away to Brazil. Considering how many times USA had the chance vs T1 you would have thought they can't lose home vs weaker teams on paper or teams that started to play good test rugby 2-3 years ago.



Fair points. I based this honorable mention mostly on their maiden win over a first tier team (Scotland) and didn't give any thought to their woeful RWC record. In fact, I believe the US are now the least successful 2nd tier team at the tournament historically with just 3 wins from 26 games over 8 tournaments. Probably Georgia, with their string of ENC titles, were more deserving.

Technically the decade lasts one more year, as there was no year Zero, but I think the 0-9 is easier to follow.


The same arguments came up at the turn of the millennium with some claiming it should have been celebrated on January 1st 2001, rather than 2000. But I read this on Wiki: The 2010s is the current decade in the Gregorian calendar that began on 1 January 2010, and will end on 31 December 2019.

Disappointment: subjective but Germany missing out on the World 7s Series due to an overtime try by Japan in the HK final 2018. Worst I've ever feeled about a rugby game.


My 7s disappointment was Samoa missing out on the 2016 Olympics with a heartbreaking loss to Spain in the repechage final, during which they were repeatedly pinged by the ref for nothing more than hard tackling.

How about players? 3rd tier candidates would include Timur Masharov (Kazakhstan), Joe Rakoto (Madagascar), Sebastian Mejia (Colombia) . . .

Posts: 2625
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 09:18
Location: Bucharest
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby amz » Tue, 10 Dec 2019, 09:55

Event of the Decade: Rugby back at Olympics

Honorable mention: Japan 2019 RWC, first in a (still) T2 country

Disappointment: Challenge Cup becoming again a closed shop after lack of any support toward Continental Shield and generally any lack of support of 6N nations toward the rest of European teams


Match of the Decade: Japan's win over South Africa

Honorable mention: Uruguay's win over Fiji / England - NZ RWC semi-final

Disappointment: England - South Africa 2019 final


Cartel nation Team of the Decade: New Zealand

Honorable mentions: Ireland (first win over NZ and close games and win vs SH teams)

Disappointment: England, France

Non-cartel nation Team of the Decade: Georgia for 2015 RWC auto qualification and generally grinding its way up with very limited resources

Honorable mentions: Uruguay raise

Disappointment: USA and Canada, despite a favorable match list from WR and chances to play T1 matches at a number comparable with Japan, they either went down (Canada) or stay at a mediocre level (USA)

Exciting Development of the Decade: Japan and Japan's Pro League

Honorable mention: New Zealand playing Islanders

Disappointment: Continental Shield

Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 19:00
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby Coloradoan » Tue, 10 Dec 2019, 18:20

Amz,

No idea what you're talking about with regard to the US staying at the same level. The last 4 years have been a huge improvement. Wins over Scotland and Samoa, both of whom we'd never beaten. Of course we destroyed Romania in Bucharest last year as well, but that's not as much of an achievement these days. And we also were undefeated against Canada, which would have been unimaginable a decade ago. The loss to Brazil in 2016 was disappointing, but Brazil can produce good performances at home and it was not exactly the first choice USA team. Only 3 of the starting XV from that match them made the RWC squad 3 years later.

Posts: 714
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby Edgar » Tue, 10 Dec 2019, 20:45

amz wrote:
Disappointment: England, France


Certainly Les Bleus, and they might even have been more disappointing than Italy over the past decade, at least since 2011, given their own traditionally high standards. France's astonishing slump since coming within a drop-goal of winning the 2011 World Cup seems to have slipped under the radar. Perhaps because its France, the unpredictable Tricolors who lose to Tonga at the RWC one week and beat England the next. But overall France has been abysmal on the international stage over the past eight years. If I'm not mistaken, they've finished in the bottom half of the 6 Nations table every year since 2011 except 2017, when they were 3rd, collecting the Wooden Spoon in 2013. 9 years is also the longest France have gone without a 5/6 Nations title since winning a share of their first in 1954 (jointly with England & Wales). Since then they'd never gone more than five years without winning at least a share of the title, and we have to go back to the early 70s just to find the last time they went 4 years without one. They were mauled by NZ at the 2015 World Cup and again dipped out at the quarterfinals stage this year. They were beaten at home by Fiji in the AIs last year and drew with Japan the year before that. In 2014 they were blitzed by the Wallabies 0-3 in a series, and also beaten by Argentina, Wales & Ireland, while in 2013 their 6 Nations losses to Italy, Wales and England were accompanied by a 0-4 record against the All Blacks and a one-off defeat to the Boks. 2012 saw them beaten by Argentina, Wales & England. ...

Posts: 24
Joined: Thu, 29 Aug 2019, 08:00
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby novac » Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 08:47

Coloradoan wrote:Amz,

No idea what you're talking about with regard to the US staying at the same level. The last 4 years have been a huge improvement. Wins over Scotland and Samoa, both of whom we'd never beaten. Of course we destroyed Romania in Bucharest last year as well, but that's not as much of an achievement these days. And we also were undefeated against Canada, which would have been unimaginable a decade ago. The loss to Brazil in 2016 was disappointing, but Brazil can produce good performances at home and it was not exactly the first choice USA team. Only 3 of the starting XV from that match them made the RWC squad 3 years later.


Well, USA stayed at the same level if we compare RWC 2015 with RWC 2019, but if we look at the RWC 2011 results they got to a lower level. At least in 2011 they beat Russia, but in 2015 and 2019 they lost to Samoa and Tonga, not to mention Japan (also 2015). Don't compare USA to Romania anymore. The times when Romania beat USA are long gone now. The wins against Scotland and Samoa and even Georgia in 2012-2013 are good results, but USA needs to confirm by World Cups.

Posts: 714
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby Edgar » Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 10:11

Comparing current rankings to those at the end of 2010 also makes for interesting reading, though it would take some time to put together a thorough analysis of overall trends. A few things I did notice at a cursory glance - England and Australia have swapped places, the former improving from 6th to 3rd, Wales have jumped 4 spots to 4th and Argentina fallen by 4 to 10th. Among the second tier, Japan are the big improvers, moving up 5 places to 8th, while Canada have dropped by 8 to 22nd. Among the 3rd tier, Spain have climbed 6 spots to 16th, but the big improvers were Hong Kong, up 18 places to 21st, and Zimbabwe, improving from 46th to 35th. Further down, massive declines have been recorded by Kazakhstan (down 35 spots to 63rd), Moldova (down 24 to 59th) and China down 31 to 80th). I haven't really looked at the bottom 20 or 30 teams.

Posts: 2625
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 09:18
Location: Bucharest
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby amz » Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 11:31

@Edgar, it is about a full decade in which US won 1 out of 12 RWC matches having much more support from WR compared with Eastern European and generally European countries to play T1 opposition. So overall USA stagnated and Canada is on its way to a lower level. Romania didn't get any "attention" from WR, nothing compared with US, Canada, Fiji or Japan (and Europe generally) so that's why I consider sort of disappointing by comparing with chances other T2 level countries had. See where you are compared with Fiji and Japan. With all this lack of interest, Romania had wins entire decade against better ranked teams (Tonga, Samoa, Georgia, USA, Canada). Of course your results vs Samoa and Scotland were good but so was Romania vs Italy in 2004, yet the overall decline wasn't stopped in the respective decade.

As for last match vs Romania, US was a full test side while Romanian team was very young and experimental (9 U23 players, 4 younger than 25, only 3 from abroad) while US fielded the best team possible.

Posts: 714
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby Edgar » Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 20:51

amz wrote:@Edgar, it is about a full decade in which US won 1 out of 12 RWC matches having much more support from WR compared with Eastern European and generally European countries to play T1 opposition.


Much obliged for the info.

Another glance at the rankings over the past 10 years, this time at the bottom half, and a few more observations: Luxembourg are the biggest climbers of the decade, up 38 spots to 56th, followed by Switzerland, up 25 to 31st, Colombia, up 22 to 33rd, and both Israel & Nigeria improved by 20 to end the year on 61st & 70th, respectively. On the way down are Serbia, 41 places to 90th, Niue, down 28 to 97th and the Solomons, dropping 24 rungs to 100th, while Norway & Cameroon have both lost 20 places to end the year on 98th & 99th, respectively, Nigeria and Cameroon both made their returns to international action this year after lengthy bans - during which the two nations played an official league test! Nigeria began well with a win over hosts Ghana in a West African Tri Nations mid-year, but lost the decider by a point to the Ivory Coast. They were then blitzed 63-3 by Madagascar in the Africa Cup elimination rounds at the start of this month. Cameroon marked their return with a scoreless draw against the Republic of Congo at Brazzaville in November. Meanwhile, interesting that both Brazil and Colombia have moved up the rankings while Paraguay have dropped 10 places to 47th.

Disappointment - Super 18: A convoluted format with a couple of inept teams, ridiculous travel requirements for some and big thumbs down from the fans


Just breaking this down a little. Super 18 was a flop, mostly because they came up with such a silly format, and the Kings and Sunwolves should never have been involved, but the Jaguares' entry into Super Rugby was a positive development, as was the addition of Los Pumas to the RC a few years earlier. Both should have received honorable mentions - at least.

Posts: 3203
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 08:17

Edgar wrote:
Disappointment - Super 18: A convoluted format with a couple of inept teams, ridiculous travel requirements for some and big thumbs down from the fans


Just breaking this down a little. Super 18 was a flop, mostly because they came up with such a silly format, and the Kings and Sunwolves should never have been involved, but the Jaguares' entry into Super Rugby was a positive development, as was the addition of Los Pumas to the RC a few years earlier. Both should have received honorable mentions - at least.


How different things can be seen. The involvement of the Sunwolves was for me one of the highlights of the decade and one of the very rare things were cartel nation rugby organizers seemed to have a vision of expansion. In the end they messed up the piss up in the brewery, like they always do, but for once they tried to create something new to create a lot of revenue mid-to-long-term.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 714
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby Edgar » Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 10:13

I think there is a tendency in Europe to view the rest-of-the-world as a single entity and not several different continents separated by vast oceans and thousands of kilometers. Super Rugby already spanned three of them, and withal an entire hemisphere. It was not in anybody's interests to go beyond that. South America and South Africa are basically the antipodes of Japan. This was a move which overstretched the championship and destroyed its regional identity and meaning. The Sunwolves were not up to it, conceding huge scores on the road and struggling to win at home. On one occasion the Blues found themselves playing in 40 degree heat in Tokyo! Neither is Japan an emerging market. The game has been established there for a long time and Japan actually had one of the first professional leagues. World Rugby pressured SANZAAR to accept the Sunwolves to help strengthen Japanese rugby ahead of the 2019 World Cup. This appears to have been successful, but at what price for the Super Rugby competition and its credibility? Expansion and development are laudable objectives but need to be carried out on a more practical basis, region by region. Skimming off the cream for inter-continental competitions is just another variety of elitism. Bottom line is it failed, evidently.

Update: Just a few notes in response to the below message (as I'm not allowed to post again till late this evening):
I've lived in Europe for the past 2 decades. I don't view Super Rugby from a Kiwi perspective. New Zealand is doing very well, and always will be so long as rugby is the national game.
There may be some truth about a racist, colonial era mentality among the original SANZAR unions, but for my own part I've always been advocate of Pacific Island inclusion. This is one of the reasons I'm excited about GRR - and if Japan were to be involved in that, I'd be all for it.
Anyway, things can be seen differently, yes, but both SANZAAR and Japan appear to have reached the conclusion the Sunwolves do not belong in a Southern Hemisphere rugby championships.
Last edited by Edgar on Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 11:46, edited 2 times in total.

Posts: 3203
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 11:05

Edgar wrote:I think there is a tendency in Europe to view the rest-of-the-world as a single entity and not several different continents separated by vast oceans and thousands of kilometers. Super Rugby already spanned three of them, and withal an entire hemisphere. It was not in anybody's interests to go beyond that. South America and South Africa are basically the antipodes of Japan. This was a move which overstretched the championship and destroyed its regional identity and meaning. The Sunwolves were not up to it, conceding huge scores on the road and struggling to win at home. On one occasion the Blues found themselves playing in 40 degree heat in Tokyo! Neither is Japan an emerging market. The game has been established there for a long time and Japan actually had one of the first professional leagues. World Rugby pressured SANZAAR to accept the Sunwolves to help strengthen Japanese rugby ahead of the 2019 World Cup. This appears to have been successful, but at what price for the Super Rugby competition and its credibility? Expansion and development are laudable objectives but need to be carried out on a more practical basis, region by region. Skimming off the cream for inter-continental competitions is just another variety of elitism. Bottom line is it failed, evidently.


I think Europeans see the world totally different than you describe it. I drive one hour and I am in Austria, one more and I am in Italy and I could have also made a small stint through Slovenia (at least for SLO and IT two totally different cultures with different languages, foods and culture) Our argument is, that while we are after a 3 hour flight in Cairo, Africa, Kiwis just made it from Auckland to Sydney. We see the wast nothing in between as a reason to move closer together for you. At least I do.

So when it already takes that long to visit your neighbour from your tiny and extremely thin populated country, why bother to make a "bit" longer trip to Japan.
And my prejudice is, that the exclusion of Japan is simply a bit racist as everything too much outside of the Commonwealth seems to be too foreign or exotic while they love to wastly exaggerate their own differences between their former colonies and their "home nations".

Your analysis of Japan is extremely short-sighted in my eyes and especially for a Kiwi perspective like you are. Off course it is an emerging market if not THE future market. If they weren't hindered from their amateur ethos, their league would dwarfen every other country with their money. As a tiny country like New Zealand with the population size of a big city you need to make sure, that the cash keeps flowing in - it won't from just your island(s).

And the next thing is, that the feeling of classical Commonwealth racism I described above is justified by naively thinking that a new team will be a champion beater from the start in a closed shop competition. This can only happen when you have an expansion draft like in the NHL and even then this happens extremely rarely. So instead of welcoming them and encouraging them the racism thing came up (they don't belong here) and they messed up their golden ticket to a safe future and cut them after they slightly improved three seasons in a row.

I do agree with you, that this is kind of skimming of the cream, but I fail to understand, why SANZAAR didn't like the taste of it, when otherwise they are fearing cold coffee.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 3203
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 13 Dec 2019, 07:59

Edgar wrote:
Update: Just a few notes in response to the below message (as I'm not allowed to post again till late this evening):
I've lived in Europe for the past 2 decades. I don't view Super Rugby from a Kiwi perspective. New Zealand is doing very well, and always will be so long as rugby is the national game.
There may be some truth about a racist, colonial era mentality among the original SANZAR unions, but for my own part I've always been advocate of Pacific Island inclusion. This is one of the reasons I'm excited about GRR - and if Japan were to be involved in that, I'd be all for it.
Anyway, things can be seen differently, yes, but both SANZAAR and Japan appear to have reached the conclusion the Sunwolves do not belong in a Southern Hemisphere rugby championships.


So where is the difference between Japan being involved in the GRR or Super Rugby? That Argentinia and South Africa are not included? I agree with what you wrote about NZ, but still new incomes need to be found to stay on top. I mean we just had the nations league proposal because they are looking for money. And I personally struggle to believe that Japan will be content to play in a second tier league like the GRR. Save that money and by some top players for the top league instead.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 714
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby Edgar » Fri, 13 Dec 2019, 10:18

RugbyLiebe wrote:
So where is the difference between Japan being involved in the GRR or Super Rugby? That Argentinia and South Africa are not included? I agree with what you wrote about NZ, but still new incomes need to be found to stay on top. I mean we just had the nations league proposal because they are looking for money. And I personally struggle to believe that Japan will be content to play in a second tier league like the GRR. Save that money and by some top players for the top league instead.


Well, GRR is a Pacific-East Asia regional competition, whereas Super Rugby is essentially a Southern Hemisphere championship. I know (from countless comments I've read) that some European fans have difficulty relating to the latter definition. But the hemispheric rivalry has always been a big part of international rugby tradition and built up its own culture south of the equator. So that is the major difference. Japan belong in an Asia-Pacific competition. They don't belong in a Southern Hemisphere championship.

That's not to say Japan are necessarily going to seek involvement in GRR. There's actually no indication of that at this stage. Though I personally hope it does come about in the future. I don't see why it should be regarded as "second tier," and obviously every attempt will be made to develop it. Neither do I see why Japan should consider itself "above" GRR. The Sunwolves were out of their depth in Super Rugby and, along with the Kings, drove the standard down, much to the displeasure of the fans. No amount of "big money" is going to compensate the championship for loss of credibility. SANZAAR saw yen signs and got carried away. They have since acknowledged this and attempted to rectify the situation.

In saying this I've made the comment before that I think the time will come when SANZAAR itself must break up in order to allow the game to flourish on a regional basis. Long term NZ and Australia belong in the Asia-Pacific region, SA should become more involved with the game in Africa, and SLAR will become the main focus for Argentina. For the time being, however, SANZAAR is serving the purpose of ushering Southern Hemisphere rugby into the professional age. Hopefully that's all, because if we try to turn the RC and Super Rugby into global (minus Europe) competitions that can only stifle the development of the game on a region by region basis.

Update: Once again an update to reply to a following post (as I'm restricted to two a day): We seem to be going around in circles a little. It's true there is a racist element to the SA-Aussie-NZ clique, which is a legacy of the colonial era. & undoubtedly that extends to rugby. But it was clearly NOT the reason the Sunwolves were axed, or they wouldn't have been included in the first place. The reasons for their axing were clear enough (ridiculous travel requirements, poor form and out of season, etc), and I think most Super Rugby fans are happy with the Jags' inclusion and would also welcome the Pacific Islands if that were financially viable. The idea that the Sunwolves belong in Super Rugby simply because they are not European is probably more racist, in fact.

ps podcast was interesting, thanks. :thumbup:
Last edited by Edgar on Fri, 13 Dec 2019, 13:16, edited 2 times in total.

Posts: 3203
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 13 Dec 2019, 10:58

I personally see the "Southern Hemisphere" identity as the last straw to find something those nations have in common.

Okay, all including Argentina have basically been British colonies or under heavy British empire influence like Argentina (listen to the fantastic Rugby reloaded podcast episode about Argentinian rugby https://soundcloud.com/user-523674328/5 ... ated-rugby ) and as that's not anymore the case they said we are the "Southern hemisphere" and they are in a rugby majority "white". So for me racism it is with the fig leave "but the PI" and ""we are Southern hemisphere".
But let's agree to disagree.

Off course the GRR is a second tier, when they don't have the best teams playing in it. Why should the biggest rugby audience on the globe be content with this? "They should be happy, that we let them play with our second teams". Well you know this rugby logic (or should I say private school logic) well enough. Constantly finding reasons why not to play somebody is one of the biggest reasons why rugby isn't the number 1 sport in the world now.

The last paragraph is imho a realistic view of the future, apart from that South Africa will most likely orientate itself to Europe as time-zones become more important than travelling time, but we will see. I also agree that GRR might be a good development tool - just not for Japan.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 714
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Awards of the Decade 2010s

Postby Edgar » Thu, 02 Jan 2020, 08:34

Wow, 2020s just flying by :shock:

Japan, Spain & Colombia rated the best Tier 2 (& 3) teams of 2019 by that leading authority on Tier 2 (& 3) rugby, the Tier 2 Rugby Blog. Honorable mentions (IMHO) should go to Uruguay for their victory over Fiji at the World Cup and success in the Nations Cup, Zimbabwe for winning the Victoria Cup (ahead of favorites Kenya), Portugal for earning promotion back to ENC division 1, Philippines for winning Asia division 1 (below Top 3), & Mexico for upsetting Paraguay and posting a ton against the Caymans (who beat them last time they met)! But that's just for the year, of course. Decennary accolades appear at the top of the thread.

http://tier2rugby.blogspot.com/2019/12/ ... qus_thread

Key events this year: https://www.scrummage.co.ke/2020/01/01/ ... r-in-2020/ :thumbup:

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ficcp and 12 guests