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Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

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Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 27 Jan 2020, 21:39

How do the different leagues across the world compare? Not in terms of money, or crowd size, or how entertaining the rugby is, but in terms of which leagues have the strongest teams and which have the weakest teams? I'm not including cup tournaments like the European Champions Cup. I am also not including leagues which haven't started yet like SLAR and GRR.

I would rank the leagues something like this:
1. Top 14
2. Super Rugby
3. English Premiership
4. Pro 14
5. French Pro D2
6. Currie Cup Premier
7. Mitre10
8. Japanese Top League
9. English Championship
10. MLR
11. Top 12
12. NRC (Australia)
13. Russian Premier League
14. Romanian Superliga

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Edgar » Mon, 27 Jan 2020, 23:04

Nobody would get close to the Crusaders, that's for sure. :thumbup: 8-)

Crusaders team vs Jaguares 2019 Super Rugby final:

1. Joe Moody
2. Codie Taylor
3. Owen Franks
4. Mitchell Dunshea
5. Samuel Whitelock (C)
6. Whetukamokamo Douglas
7. Matt Todd (VC)
8. Kieran Read
9. Bryn Hall
10. Richie Mo'unga
11. George Bridge
12. Jack Goodhue
13. Braydon Ennor
14. Sevu Reece
15. David Havili (VC)

Your rankings looks okay but the Kiwi sides in Super Rugby would be a cut above the rest and the top South African sides would be close behind. NSW and Queensland would be right up there too were it not for the fact they have been diluted by the creation of three further professional franchises in Australia.

The idea of a World Club Championship in rugby union has been around for a long time.
As far back as 1997, Auckland’s Blues – winners of the first two Super Rugby titles – destroyed European Cup winners Brive 47-11 in a match billed by the French hosts as a World Championship.

All Blacks centre Lee Stensness led the way with a hat trick of tries, while Fijian winger Joeli Vidiri chimed in with a dazzling individual effort.

Britain’s Independent described the New Zealand team, who were on an unbeaten tour of Europe, as “stronger, faster, more skilled technically and more cunning strategically.”

“It was like spending 80 minutes in a washing machine,” said Brive captain Alain Penaud. “It was like being run over by a bus a hundred times.”



https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/22/t ... mpionship/

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 27 Jan 2020, 23:36

Maybe 1st and 2nd should be swapped. I've also swapped English Championship and Top League. The fully professional English Championship has to be stronger than the Top League which is not fully professional.

Looking at the relative strength of each league it might be worth comparing the team that finished exactly mid table last season.

1. Super Rugby - Highlanders
2. Top 14 - Castres
3. English Premiership - Bath
4. Pro 14 - Ospreys
5. French Pro D2 - Biarritz
6. Currie Cup - Sharks
7. Mitre10 - Auckland
8. English Championship - Yorkshire Carnegie
9. Japanese Top League - Ricoh Black Rams
10. MLR - New Orleans Gold

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Thesjhughes » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 06:08

1. Mitre10 - Bay of Plenty
2. Super Rugby - Crusaders
3. Pro 14 - Munster
4. MLR - Seattle Seawolves
5. French Pro D2 - Perpignan
6. Currie Cup - Griquas
7. 5.Top 14 - La Rochelle
8. English Premiership - London Irish
9. English Championship - Jersey red
10. Japanese Top League - Haven’t decided on the team yet still looking for one

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 06:41

Thesjhughes wrote:1. Mitre10 - Bay of Plenty
2. Super Rugby - Crusaders
3. Pro 14 - Munster
4. MLR - Seattle Seawolves
5. French Pro D2 - Perpignan
6. Currie Cup - Griquas
7. 5.Top 14 - La Rochelle
8. English Premiership - London Irish
9. English Championship - Jersey red
10. Japanese Top League - Haven’t decided on the team yet still looking for one


Are you choosing a team from each league to support? That wasn't the question, but it's a nice idea. Let's do that.

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Thesjhughes » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 07:10

Thesjhughes wrote:1. Mitre10 - Bay of Plenty
2. Super Rugby - Crusaders
3. Pro 14 - Munster
4. MLR - Seattle Seawolves
5. French Pro D2 - Perpignan
6. Currie Cup - Griquas
7. 5.Top 14 - La Rochelle
8. English Premiership - London Irish
9. English Championship - Jersey red
10. Japanese Top League - Haven’t decided on the team yet still looking for one

It’s each team I support and which league I ranks as well in my opinion

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 07:32

Thesjhughes wrote:
Thesjhughes wrote:1. Mitre10 - Bay of Plenty
2. Super Rugby - Crusaders
3. Pro 14 - Munster
4. MLR - Seattle Seawolves
5. French Pro D2 - Perpignan
6. Currie Cup - Griquas
7. 5.Top 14 - La Rochelle
8. English Premiership - London Irish
9. English Championship - Jersey red
10. Japanese Top League - Haven’t decided on the team yet still looking for one

It’s each team I support and which league I ranks as well in my opinion


OK fair enough

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 17:56

Thesjhughes wrote:
Thesjhughes wrote:1. Mitre10 - Bay of Plenty
2. Super Rugby - Crusaders
3. Pro 14 - Munster
4. MLR - Seattle Seawolves
5. French Pro D2 - Perpignan
6. Currie Cup - Griquas
7. 5.Top 14 - La Rochelle
8. English Premiership - London Irish
9. English Championship - Jersey red
10. Japanese Top League - Haven’t decided on the team yet still looking for one

It’s each team I support and which league I ranks as well in my opinion


The leagues I follow and the team I support in that league in order of my interest:
1. English Premiership - Bristol Bears
2. Welsh Premiership - RGC
3. Pro 14 - Cheetahs
4. Currie Cup - Cheetahs
5. Scottish Super Six - Ayrshire Bulls

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby victorsra » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 19:12

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Thesjhughes wrote:
Thesjhughes wrote:1. Mitre10 - Bay of Plenty
2. Super Rugby - Crusaders
3. Pro 14 - Munster
4. MLR - Seattle Seawolves
5. French Pro D2 - Perpignan
6. Currie Cup - Griquas
7. 5.Top 14 - La Rochelle
8. English Premiership - London Irish
9. English Championship - Jersey red
10. Japanese Top League - Haven’t decided on the team yet still looking for one

It’s each team I support and which league I ranks as well in my opinion


The leagues I follow and the team I support in that league in order of my interest:
1. English Premiership - Bristol Bears
2. Welsh Premiership - RGC
3. Pro 14 - Cheetahs
4. Currie Cup - Cheetahs
5. Scottish Super Six - Ayrshire Bulls

In the 4 big leagues: Clermont, Bristol, Scarlets and Jaguares. But not realy a supporter of T1 leagues. Just enjoy watch good rugby. I care more about the international rugby structure.

In MLR I want Toronto (Canadian rugby) to go up and in SLAR I realy can't support Corinthians. But what can I do? It is our national team wearing the shirt I can't wear...
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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 20:54

victorsra wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Thesjhughes wrote:
Thesjhughes wrote:1. Mitre10 - Bay of Plenty
2. Super Rugby - Crusaders
3. Pro 14 - Munster
4. MLR - Seattle Seawolves
5. French Pro D2 - Perpignan
6. Currie Cup - Griquas
7. 5.Top 14 - La Rochelle
8. English Premiership - London Irish
9. English Championship - Jersey red
10. Japanese Top League - Haven’t decided on the team yet still looking for one

It’s each team I support and which league I ranks as well in my opinion


The leagues I follow and the team I support in that league in order of my interest:
1. English Premiership - Bristol Bears
2. Welsh Premiership - RGC
3. Pro 14 - Cheetahs
4. Currie Cup - Cheetahs
5. Scottish Super Six - Ayrshire Bulls

In the 4 big leagues: Clermont, Bristol, Scarlets and Jaguares. But not realy a supporter of T1 leagues. Just enjoy watch good rugby. I care more about the international rugby structure.

In MLR I want Toronto (Canadian rugby) to go up and in SLAR I realy can't support Corinthians. But what can I do? It is our national team wearing the shirt I can't wear...


I am also much more interested in international rugby. I am not really passionate about club rugby but in England there is a lot of rugby on TV. The Welsh Premiership is on free TV and Scottish Super Six is free on YouTube. I like watching that kind of semi pro club rugby, played at traditional rugby clubs with maybe a couple of thousand spectators. I wish I lived in a town with a semi pro team to support. My nearest big city is Bristol. My younger daughter has just started playing rugby and I would like her to have a team to support, so I think Bristol is a good option. I also live near Bath but it's difficult to get tickets so not a great team for me to support part time.

I really cannot understand why Brazil's SLAR team is named Corinthians. If they're a Sao Paulo team why not just be called Sao Paulo, and pick an animal. South America has loads of cool animals to name after. Sao Paulo Anacondas.

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby victorsra » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 23:30

I like Bristol because when I started to follow rugby Pichot was there and he was probably the biggest South American rugby name. And after that Bristol's drama to be back to the Premiership cought my support :P

Corinthians is one of the big 3 soccer clubs in São Paulo (and the most popular). CBRu thought it would be great to have ties with a soccer club to get more fans. But in fact they are simply risked to lost more than half of the rugby community (that is not Corinthians fans... fans of Palmeiras and São Paulo, the other two big clubs, won't wear a Corinthians shirt, obviously... even people that don't care about soccer don't like the idea... ). If you want to know more: https://theculturetrip.com/south-americ ... cer-clubs/

Anaconda is from the Amazon and Pantanal regions :? We call it Sucuri. Ok if it is a team thought to represent all Brazil. São Paulo's animal symbols would be more a Puma (the Puma itself, not the Jaguar) or a Capybara :lol: There was a designer recently that draw a Capybaras Rugby concecpt very cool that made people like it. :lol: São Paulo is also linked to coffee (but Colombians got it) and industrial themes. The idea of São Paulo Locomotives could be cool, as the city calls itself "Brazil's locomotive". But this would be maybe unpopular for people outside São Paulo that sees the city not in a good way. And obviously the team is supposed to represent the whole country, not a São Paulo thing (and this is a sensitive issue in Brazilian rugby, as people outside São Paulo complain that CBRu is too São Paulo-oriented).
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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 23:57

I love Capybaras. That would be an awesome animal to represent you. It's perfect. Obviously Argentina has already claimed Pumas and Jaguars. The SLAR team could just be Capybaras Rugby Club, like in England there is Wasps Rugby Club. It doesn't need to have a location in the name. But Sao Paulo would know it's theirs.

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby victorsra » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 00:52

Chester-Donnelly wrote:I love Capybaras. That would be an awesome animal to represent you. It's perfect. Obviously Argentina has already claimed Pumas and Jaguars. The SLAR team could just be Capybaras Rugby Club, like in England there is Wasps Rugby Club. It doesn't need to have a location in the name. But Sao Paulo would know it's theirs.

I love the Capybaras concept :P It is like an icon of São Paulo because of a weird fact: there are Capybaras in Tietê River and Pinheiros River! They are São Paulo's main rivers, crossing the metropolis, with a proud history and central history in our history, even for sports. Many of the oldest sports clubs were based in Tiete's banks, but both rivers were killed by highways and industrial pollution. They are open sewers that makes anyone that passes by them depressed. It is like the Thames in its worst times. No fish can live there, but incredibly there are Capybaras resisting in the margins, between the rivers and the highways! They are famous. It is basicaly unbelievable.

Image
Image
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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby victorsra » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 00:58

Here that designer's idea of a Capybara Rugby, he called "Brasil Capis" ("Capivara" is the name in Portuguese): http://www.portaldorugby.com.br/noticia ... -americana

Image

Capivaras are cool.
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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 01:06

That is awesome. That definitely should be the name and logo. It's perfect.

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 08:20

Romanian teams beat Italian teams in all competitions they met in the last years. That dont means SuperLiga is better than Top12 but still, no big difference. And i think Russians are a bit above both this two right now also.

PS. Nice Capybara logo

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 08:42

In terms of nett global popularity (tv + crowds) including local markets I would rank it as so (i haven't included the top 12, Russian or Romanian leagues as the info is sketchy at best):

1. Top 14
2. Super Rugby
3. Currie Cup
4. Premiership
5. Pro D2
6. Japan Top League (lack of tv figures puts it down)
7. MLR/Pro 14
8. MLR/Pro 14
9. Mitre Cup
10. NRC
11. RFU championship

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 10:44

ihateblazers wrote:In terms of nett global popularity (tv + crowds) including local markets I would rank it as so (i haven't included the top 12, Russian or Romanian leagues as the info is sketchy at best):

1. Top 14
2. Super Rugby
3. Currie Cup
4. Premiership
5. Pro D2
6. Japan Top League (lack of tv figures puts it down)
7. MLR/Pro 14
8. MLR/Pro 14
9. Mitre Cup
10. NRC
11. RFU championship


Where did you get the tv figures from the others from? I am not convinced, that the Top League couldn't be a surprising number 1.
And I would bet some money, that they have higher tv figures than the Pro D2.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 12:30

RugbyLiebe wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:In terms of nett global popularity (tv + crowds) including local markets I would rank it as so (i haven't included the top 12, Russian or Romanian leagues as the info is sketchy at best):

1. Top 14
2. Super Rugby
3. Currie Cup
4. Premiership
5. Pro D2
6. Japan Top League (lack of tv figures puts it down)
7. MLR/Pro 14
8. MLR/Pro 14
9. Mitre Cup
10. NRC
11. RFU championship


Where did you get the tv figures from the others from? I am not convinced, that the Top League couldn't be a surprising number 1.
And I would bet some money, that they have higher tv figures than the Pro D2.


I've based it off figures I've recollected over the past 2 years in news reports and my gut feeling. The Top 14 viewership for the final is in the millions and regular season games in the hundreds of thousands.

Super rugby still has good viewership in South Africa in the high hundreds of thousands and you've got the European, Australian, NZ, Japanese and Argentine market as well to add. Supposedly some of the Sunwolves games had the highest tv ratings in the history of the league.

The Currie cup gets good ratings in South Africa In the high hundreds of thousands. The pro d2 gets surprisingly high figures with some matches in the low hundreds of thousands and the final far higher.

The Premiership does pretty poorely for a league with it's standing with matches averaging just above 100k, the switch to BT sport has had a large effect. The super league has always had higher tv ratings even when the Premiership was on Sky. Even if the Premiership was to switch to the BBC or itv for the final I don't think they would come close to the Top 14.

The top league I don't know, but like you I think they are probably the top now with the season they are having.

Pro 14 gets bad viewers in all of it's markets. When it was on the BBC viewership was actually very good for Welsh games. MLR we saw figured which were good for regular season games and the final was even better on FTA.

No one watches the RFU championship and only 1 game per week is televised, the NRC has 1 match per week on Fox and the Mitre Cup does alright in NZ.

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 12:44

Currie Cup gets good viewing figures, but you need to factor in that it's only over 9 weeks, and there are only 7 teams. Pro D2 gets big crowds over 8 months, with twice as many teams.
This is not a criticism of either competition. As a short domestic competition the Currie Cup is number 1. As a level 2 competition with a full season the Pro D2 is number 1. Australia's and England's equivalent competitions don't even come close.

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 12:55

ihateblazers wrote:Supposedly some of the Sunwolves games had the highest tv ratings in the history of the league.


That would be a good point why the Top League could be very close to the number 1 spot.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 13:04

RugbyLiebe wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:Supposedly some of the Sunwolves games had the highest tv ratings in the history of the league.


That would be a good point why the Top League could be very close to the number 1 spot.


There's not doubt in my mind that if they can sort out this nonsense with amateurism they would be the biggest league of any rugby code by a huge margin. The corporates should see it as a huge opportunity for marketing. Even if they are only associated with the club as a title sponsor.

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 22:45

Professional club leagues ranked within their own categories

Tier 1 premier competitions
1. Super Rugby
2. Top 14
3. English Premiership
4. Pro 14

Tier 1 top level domestic competitions
1. Currie Cup
2. Mitre10
3. NRC

Tier 1 level 2 league
1. Pro D2
2. English Championship
3. Top 12

Tier 2 premier competitions
1. Top League
2. MLR
3. Russian Professional League
4. Romanian Superliga

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Fri, 31 Jan 2020, 01:29

You guys are way overrating the standard of MLR. It's nice we have a pro league now but I would say the standard is at CEC Superliga level. I'm willing to bet as well that the top teams in CEC Superliga and Russian Premier League are better than all the MLR teams and thats simply due to concentration of playing resources.

MLR has a few marquee players but the overall quality of the teams as a unit is pretty low. I'm also willing to bet that if you put the top MLR team against the likes of Timisoara, Baie Mare and Steaua, the matches would be very even. I also bet that Enesei and Krasny Yar would beat the MLR teams the vast majority of the time.

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Re: Rank the top rugby union club/provincial leagues

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 31 Jan 2020, 02:45

Canadian_Rugger wrote:You guys are way overrating the standard of MLR. It's nice we have a pro league now but I would say the standard is at CEC Superliga level. I'm willing to bet as well that the top teams in CEC Superliga and Russian Premier League are better than all the MLR teams and thats simply due to concentration of playing resources.

MLR has a few marquee players but the overall quality of the teams as a unit is pretty low. I'm also willing to bet that if you put the top MLR team against the likes of Timisoara, Baie Mare and Steaua, the matches would be very even. I also bet that Enesei and Krasny Yar would beat the MLR teams the vast majority of the time.


The Tier 2 premier competitions are the hardest to rank. I put the CEC Superliga last because there are only 7 teams, and only about half of those teams are any good. The Russian Premier League has 10 teams, again, only about 4 are good, and the two Krasnoyarsk teams are totally dominant . This is why I think the Kontinental Liga is a really good initiative. Russia's and Romania's resources are concentrated around 4 teams each. There will be no easy games.

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