Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

7s Challenger Series

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 07:53

Canalina wrote:Anyway I think we can't blame World Rugby here; this virus seems really a bad bad beast (I've read that even the director of Wuhan Hospital, supposedly a man with the disposability of the best cures, died cause of it) and it's normal that they don't know how to move. Promoting a team after the first two legs seems the wisest decision to me


Off course we can blame World Rugby for it. If they had organized a proper Series, they would simply cancel HK and everything would be clear. The problem arises that they said that ONLY the HK result counts.

Given the incompetent circumstances that lead to the mess World Rugby has created once more, it seems reasonable to have the winner of the Series being promoted. Even if that favours South American teams + Japan (who simply have the money to show up there with 16 players and 10 staff members).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 08:00

The expected "snake" seeding will likely have Germany and Japan meeting in the semi final again. Now that would be a tasty rematch.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 08:09

Chester-Donnelly wrote:The expected "snake" seeding will likely have Germany and Japan meeting in the semi final again. Now that would be a tasty rematch.


The moment you realize your national team should think about losing their last group game (against Uruguay, if I am right, EDIT I wasn't it is A1vs.A2, so PNG), which will be played after the Japan match :D
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Pichulonko » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 08:21

What if Japan wins the second leg in Uruguay with Germany finishing up in third place (A scenario very likely to happen)? What is WR going to do then with both leg winners tied for first place in overall points?LOL

This is why playing the HK Qualy is extremely important.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Pichulonko » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 08:30

QF Round looks like this:

1ST POOL A vs 2ND POOL D
1ST POOL C vs 2ND POOL B
1ST POOL D vs 2ND POOL A
1ST POOL B vs 2ND POOL C

For what it's worth I guarantee you Uruguay will win their group and not Germany. And going out on a limb I'll even predict Uruguay winning the second leg at home.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Pichulonko » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 08:53

Image

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Edgar » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 09:52

I don't usually follow 7s too closely but was much intrigued by some of the teams involved in this tournament, notably Uganda, PNG and Jamaica, and am actually looking forward to the sequel in Uruguay. It helped, of course, that there was live-streaming. But after seeing the empty stands at Vina del Mar last weekend, and recalling the vacant aisles at last year's Nations Cup, I'm wondering why World Rugby persist in sending so many 2nd tier events to South America. How about staging something in Africa next year, for example MADagascar!!

ImageImage

The Caribbean could become a future hotbed for the abbreviated version of the game as well. Many small nations in the region who'll probably never be competitive in XVs. Plus we know these guys are built for speed and could really excel at the 7-man game. Get the Cubans involved as well. Apparently Havana already stages a low-key annual 7s event with the odd American side involved. It would be great if World Rugby stepped in and helped transform that into an annual RAN 7s championship - and just 90 miles from the tip of Florida.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 10:42

Edgar wrote:I'm wondering why World Rugby persist in sending so many 2nd tier events to South America.


There is only one person at World Rugby who has given the slightest indication, that he cares about rugby outside of the cartel. And that's Pichot, who is: - total surprise - located in South Amercia.


Edgar wrote:It would be great if World Rugby stepped in

Yeah, because they have a record of successfully stepping in, right. :lol: :lol: :lol:
They can't even produce a facebook post on the Rugby Challenger Series on their main page (and probably have problems with a pissup in a brewery as well).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 12:39

Important thing I forgot to post.
Manuel Wilhelm said in that podcast, that World Rugby won't decide until March during an executive meeting, if the Challenger Series counts as a qualification to the World Series or not.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby victorsra » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 13:29

It probably has Pichot's hands, but Uruguay and Chile have a strong traditional of hosting international sevens. Viña and Punta are played for long time, sometimes as part of the South American Series, sometimes as independent. It's been very consisting and before Pichot. Both countries should host this series anyway.

The only real question is: why not more countries? There are very few other international tournaments hosted by T2 nations consistently for several years and still going on. We can appoint Munich, but not many others. Perhaps Rome Sevens, as Italy is not a top team in sevens.

So, yes, Pichot's political influence is part of the answer, but let's not forget Chile and Uruguay deserve hosting this sevens series for all the work they've been doing with sevens for decades literaly.
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 13:44

victorsra wrote:It probably has Pichot's hands, but Uruguay and Chile have a strong traditional of hosting international sevens. Viña and Punta are played for long time, sometimes as part of the South American Series, sometimes as independent. It's been very consisting and before Pichot. Both countries should host this series anyway.

The only real question is: why not more countries? There are very few other international tournaments hosted by T2 nations consistently for several years and still going on. We can appoint Munich, but not many others. Perhaps Rome Sevens, as Italy is not a top team in sevens.

So, yes, Pichot's political influence is part of the answer, but let's not forget Chile and Uruguay deserve hosting this sevens series for all the work they've been doing with sevens for decades literaly.


The Safari 7s in Kenya come to my mind, but they have been in decline for years apparently. What World Rugby really needs to do is to set up clear plans, what they want. Make this process as transparent as possible.
a) how many stages they want
b) what a stage needs to bring to the table. What happens if a stage doesn't meet the criteria (attendance, promotion etc.) mid-to long-term.
c) a clear director who makes all the important decisions outside of slow ExCo-meetings.
d) what they will offer to the teams (money, promotion, social media activity, sponsor packages for the local outlets of their main sponsors i.e.).
e) how many teams and how they qualify (wild cards if you host a tournament could also be an option like in the GPS).
f) clear rules on I. how you get promoted II. what happens if a tournament must be cancelled for whatever reason
g) make sure that the timelines are realistic. Announce changes at least one year in advance and at least one month BEFORE the first qualifiers for it take place.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby victorsra » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 13:58

RugbyLiebe wrote:
victorsra wrote:It probably has Pichot's hands, but Uruguay and Chile have a strong traditional of hosting international sevens. Viña and Punta are played for long time, sometimes as part of the South American Series, sometimes as independent. It's been very consisting and before Pichot. Both countries should host this series anyway.

The only real question is: why not more countries? There are very few other international tournaments hosted by T2 nations consistently for several years and still going on. We can appoint Munich, but not many others. Perhaps Rome Sevens, as Italy is not a top team in sevens.

So, yes, Pichot's political influence is part of the answer, but let's not forget Chile and Uruguay deserve hosting this sevens series for all the work they've been doing with sevens for decades literaly.


The Safari 7s in Kenya come to my mind, but they have been in decline for years apparently. What World Rugby really needs to do is to set up clear plans, what they want. Make this process as transparent as possible.
a) how many stages they want
b) what a stage needs to bring to the table. What happens if a stage doesn't meet the criteria (attendance, promotion etc.) mid-to long-term.
c) a clear director who makes all the important decisions outside of slow ExCo-meetings.
d) what they will offer to the teams (money, promotion, social media activity, sponsor packages for the local outlets of their main sponsors i.e.).
e) how many teams and how they qualify (wild cards if you host a tournament could also be an option like in the GPS).
f) clear rules on I. how you get promoted II. what happens if a tournament must be cancelled for whatever reason
g) make sure that the timelines are realistic. Announce changes at least one year in advance and at least one month BEFORE the first qualifiers for it take place.


Kenya doesn't count thinking about the 2nd division as they are a sevens top division country.... I thought about them, but they couldn't host the Challenger...
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 14:03

victorsra wrote:
Kenya doesn't count thinking about the 2nd division as they are a sevens top division country.... I thought about them, but they couldn't host the Challenger...


Facepalm to myself :D You are right.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Canalina » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 14:10

I'd like a Rome stage, even if I heard nothing about so far
In an ideal world I would like a 7s Challenger Series with stages in Vina, Montevideo, Rome, Kandy, Antananarivo, Kampala, Nuku'alofa, Munich and Kingston... but it's just a fancy hope

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby victorsra » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 14:25

With just Viña, Montevideo, Munich, Rome, Antananarivo and Colombo/Kandy would already awesome.
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 14:36

Not sure about Madagascar. Yes they get big crowds but everything I've watched from Madagascar has had a very poor picture quality. Also do they have the facilities to host the teams? And the English commentator on YouTube struggled to pronounce Spanish names including Chile, so how will he cope in Madagascar, the land of difficult names?

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby rey200 » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 14:42

Chester-Donnelly wrote:Not sure about Madagascar. Yes they get big crowds but everything I've watched from Madagascar has had a very poor picture quality. Also do they have the facilities to host the teams? And the English commentator on YouTube struggled to pronounce Spanish names including Chile, so how will he cope in Madagascar, the land of difficult names?


Yes, that shouldn't happen. Madagascar should immediately adopt names that are easier to pronounce. But they won't, so I fear they won't host anything in the near or distant future.
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 15:04

rey200 wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:Not sure about Madagascar. Yes they get big crowds but everything I've watched from Madagascar has had a very poor picture quality. Also do they have the facilities to host the teams? And the English commentator on YouTube struggled to pronounce Spanish names including Chile, so how will he cope in Madagascar, the land of difficult names?


Yes, that shouldn't happen. Madagascar should immediately adopt names that are easier to pronounce. But they won't, so I fear they won't host anything in the near or distant future.


Same for Polish names, please. And Georgian names. I still have sometimes nightmares of writing former soccer player Tskitishvili correctly. Hell, why don't we all just join the glorious Empire and change our names to something proper.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 15:39

RugbyLiebe wrote:
rey200 wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:Not sure about Madagascar. Yes they get big crowds but everything I've watched from Madagascar has had a very poor picture quality. Also do they have the facilities to host the teams? And the English commentator on YouTube struggled to pronounce Spanish names including Chile, so how will he cope in Madagascar, the land of difficult names?


Yes, that shouldn't happen. Madagascar should immediately adopt names that are easier to pronounce. But they won't, so I fear they won't host anything in the near or distant future.


Same for Polish names, please. And Georgian names. I still have sometimes nightmares of writing former soccer player Tskitishvili correctly. Hell, why don't we all just join the glorious Empire and change our names to something proper.


Totally agree. English, German and Afrikaans names are all easy to pronounce.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby victorsra » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 15:40

It is easy: just use the given name or a nickname (if they have this tradition), not the family name.

Europeans tend to believe everybody must be called by family name, which is not true. It gives me nightmares to find out which Brazilian player WR means when they say "Costa","Dos Santos", "Silva", "Souza", "Teixeira", etc. Many people in Brazil don't use family names, when they are common names or when the person has multiple family names (it is common to have 3 or 4). We use first names or nicknames (as you can see by famous footballers). Nobody knows who "Silva" is. I bet in Madagascar they have simpler ways to call themselves, just ask them.
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby germanbullsfan » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 15:53

Why not adopt a Letter/Number Combination like THX 1138 ! ;)

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Pichulonko » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 16:11

I find it comical that some of you question Chile and Uruguay as hosts of the Challenger Series. You probably have not noticed but the HSBC Sevens Series is played in every continent all over the world except where? You guessed it: South America. So to even think of replacing these two countries from the new circuit is selfish and very much pathetic. Those who argue about the size of the crowd in Viña I'll tell you they had about 4000 people show up over the weekend, but on a stadium that fits 25k a crowd like that will always seem insignificant. But rest assure that had the All Blacks and Fiji been a part of the tournament it would have sold out. If nothing else, as Victor pointed out, Chile and Uruguay have been hosting the South American Sevens for over three decades and WR could not overlook them with or without Pichot in charge.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby germanbullsfan » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 16:16

A very bad spectator average in Chile in the last three decades , how much attendancy was in the stadium in Vina? 350 -500 ? A shame for such a so called long established tournament! Hope the Urus show up in larger numbers!

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 16:17

I don't understand why Chile are coming in for any criticism. The venue was fantastic, the event itself ran like clockwork, the picture quality was faultless, and the Chile sevens team did themselves proud. They definitely deserve to host this event again if they want to.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Unread postby Pichulonko » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 16:38

Chester-Donnelly wrote:I don't understand why Chile are coming in for any criticism. The venue was fantastic, the event itself ran like clockwork, the picture quality was faultless, and the Chile sevens team did themselves proud. They definitely deserve to host this event again if they want to.

You're right they shouldn't but apparently our German friend thinks otherwise.

I wonder if the Oktoberfest Sevens would even draw 1000 spectators with Japan as the main attraction given that the olympic stadium in Munich doesn't even get close to selling out with the likes of NZ, SA and Fiji taking part of the tournament.

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