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German rugby

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Re: German rugby

Postby olivier » Mon, 08 Jan 2018, 17:49

cheesus wrote:yea... seems like they now have a world cup experienced head coach to train mostly amateur players without any international experience.

thats great! they will be unstoppable in rugby europe conference 1 and 2!

I can't imagine he accepted to sign without certainty.
The main question about Germany is about overseas players. Are they contracted by Wild or not. If not, the team can be at level.

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Re: German rugby

Postby cheesus » Mon, 08 Jan 2018, 18:41

as far as i know most of the players from last years rec, continental cup and other test games are under contract at wild rugby academy.

so if they have not got an agreement with wild, we will see a team like the one that played (and lost) against chile.

not even that, because most of the backs came from the 7s national team and they will not be available due to world series qualification preparation.

so they will more or less start from scratch..

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Re: German rugby

Postby olivier » Mon, 08 Jan 2018, 20:08

cheesus wrote:as far as i know most of the players from last years rec, continental cup and other test games are under contract at wild rugby academy.

so if they have not got an agreement with wild, we will see a team like the one that played (and lost) against chile.

not even that, because most of the backs came from the 7s national team and they will not be available due to world series qualification preparation.

so they will more or less start from scratch..

Something don't work. Lemoine would have never accepted to coach such a poor team.

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Re: German rugby

Postby DragonMike » Mon, 08 Jan 2018, 21:47

Just signed for rec apparently. I hope he stays on. I also hope all non wra players make themselves available.

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Re: German rugby

Postby CM » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 08:06

New forwards coach has been confirmed. Campbell Johnstone, ex-all black prop.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 08:59

He is or he was training Arquitectura, in Madrid.
REC 2018 never happened. Please respect my beliefs

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Re: German rugby

Postby beber » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 09:03

Armchair Fan wrote:He is or he was training Arquitectura, in Madrid.


Also played for Krasny Yar and trained with CSM Bucuresti but did not sign a contract
Interesting connections with T2 countries

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 09:14

olivier wrote:
cheesus wrote:as far as i know most of the players from last years rec, continental cup and other test games are under contract at wild rugby academy.

so if they have not got an agreement with wild, we will see a team like the one that played (and lost) against chile.

not even that, because most of the backs came from the 7s national team and they will not be available due to world series qualification preparation.

so they will more or less start from scratch..

Something don't work. Lemoine would have never accepted to coach such a poor team.


I've posted a possible team above. That isn't an amateur side at all. The team playing against Chile was. But there the DRV just had 3-4 days to nominate a whole new team.

What Manuel Wilhelm says in the press release after signing Johnstone as the forward coach sounds legit.

Now that the coaching setup is clear, Sportdirector Wilhelm says that Healy and Lemoine would like to set their focus to nominate a competitive team.
"For many weeks we looked about in Germany as well as abroad. But we do say clearly that Wild-Rugby-employed players are still welcome. We know about their merits for German rugby and they are a reason we we tried harder to give the national team the best environment."

Jetzt, wo die Frage der sportlichen Betreuung geklärt sei, so Sportdirektor Wilhelm, würden Paul Healy und Pablo Lemoine in den nächsten Tagen ihren Fokus darauf richten, eine schlagkräftige Mannschaft zu nominieren. "Dafür haben wir uns seit vielen Wochen intensiv im In- und Ausland umgeschaut. An dieser Stelle sei aber auch ausdrücklich betont, dass die Tür grundsätzlich auch für die bei der Gesellschaft zur Förderung des Rugbysports beschäftigten Spieler weiter offensteht. Schließlich wissen wir um ihre großen Verdienste ums deutsche Rugby und haben uns nicht zuletzt deshalb jetzt im Vorfeld der EM-Spiele noch stärker darum bemüht, die bestmöglichen Rahmenbedingungen für die DRV-Maßnahmen zu schaffen.“


http://www.rugby-verband.de/ex-all-blac ... er-an-bord
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 09:15

beber wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:He is or he was training Arquitectura, in Madrid.


Also played for Krasny Yar and trained with CSM Bucuresti but did not sign a contract
Interesting connections with T2 countries


Extremely smart sign. A guy involved with teams from 3/5 opponents. We will see if his signing can pay off.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 09:54, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby datodato » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 09:50

Congratulations! You nominated coaches and directors from countries that were smashed by the the former coach. WOW! That's like the AB nominating Coetzee or Georgia choosing the next coach from Belgium. You are so smart! And everything is fine! And now you signed a coach who was so successful that he even, wait for it... coached a team in the spanish league! WOOOOOOOOW!!! GREAT NEWS! See you in the third division in two years playing against Malta and Slovakia (no disrespect to Slovakia!).

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Re: German rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 09:51

Second-tier Spanish league, to be precise.
REC 2018 never happened. Please respect my beliefs

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 10:13

datodato wrote:Congratulations! You nominated coaches and directors from countries that were smashed by the the former coach. WOW! That's like the AB nominating Coetzee or Georgia choosing the next coach from Belgium. You are so smart! And everything is fine! And now you signed a coach who was so successful that he even, wait for it... coached a team in the spanish league! WOOOOOOOOW!!! GREAT NEWS! See you in the third division in two years playing against Malta and Slovakia (no disrespect to Slovakia!).


The former coach Potgieter (who was indeed a great coach) isn't available as he is contracted by Wild. The WRA/GfR denied to talk to the DRV and it is now January. German Rugby can't afford another situation where we don't know who is coach and who's playing 3 days before a game because a billionaire thinks he can send or not send them at will. Under all this circumstances those signings are great.

- A sport director who pulled the biggest upset in German rugby by beating HRK with Pforzheim and winning the championship in 2016 (not exactly what I call being smashed)
- A coach who qualified with Uruguay for the RWC for the first time after 2003 (and no who wasn't beaten by Germany, as he resigned after the RWC and Germany beat Uruguay in 2016).
- A forward coach who's a former All Black, won Super Rugby twice (played in 3 finals as a replacement) and knows 3/5 opponents well.

Who would you have signed?

As a Georgian I wouldn't be so arrogant about this in general. Godforbid that Ivanishvili ever pulls the plug on you.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby olivier » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 11:28

These are good signings, especially Lemoine who coached Uruguay in RWC.
I don't really understand what Wilhelm comments mean. WRA players won't risk their money for the national team.
It seems the DRV find money somewhere because this staff is far from free.

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 13:04

olivier wrote:I don't really understand what Wilhelm comments mean. WRA players won't risk their money for the national team.


He simply says that they won't exclude WRA players. A smart move to keep everything open. I mean they still want to play for Germany. And apparently the WRA/GfR has blocked all talks until now. Lets hope for the best and that we do actually see WRA players in the REC.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 15:02

olivier wrote:http://www.rugby-verband.de/drv-stellt-pablo-lemoine-als-neuen-trainer-der-drv-xv-vor/
Pablo Lemoine is new head coach of Germany ! Huge coup from Manuel Wilhelm in his battle against H-P Wild.


Indeed!

Spain, Russia and Romania should be worried.

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Re: German rugby

Postby datodato » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 15:16

RugbyLiebe wrote:
datodato wrote:Congratulations! You nominated coaches and directors from countries that were smashed by the the former coach. WOW! That's like the AB nominating Coetzee or Georgia choosing the next coach from Belgium. You are so smart! And everything is fine! And now you signed a coach who was so successful that he even, wait for it... coached a team in the spanish league! WOOOOOOOOW!!! GREAT NEWS! See you in the third division in two years playing against Malta and Slovakia (no disrespect to Slovakia!).


The former coach Potgieter (who was indeed a great coach) isn't available as he is contracted by Wild. The WRA/GfR denied to talk to the DRV and it is now January. German Rugby can't afford another situation where we don't know who is coach and who's playing 3 days before a game because a billionaire thinks he can send or not send them at will. Under all this circumstances those signings are great.

- A sport director who pulled the biggest upset in German rugby by beating HRK with Pforzheim and winning the championship in 2016 (not exactly what I call being smashed)
- A coach who qualified with Uruguay for the RWC for the first time after 2003 (and no who wasn't beaten by Germany, as he resigned after the RWC and Germany beat Uruguay in 2016).
- A forward coach who's a former All Black, won Super Rugby twice (played in 3 finals as a replacement) and knows 3/5 opponents well.

Who would you have signed?

As a Georgian I wouldn't be so arrogant about this in general. Godforbid that Ivanishvili ever pulls the plug on you.


I'm not being arrogant and have no reason to. I'm not playing nor am I coaching for the GRU and even if I would be, I would have no reason to be arrogant to be clear. But this is just the biggest bs PR action I have ever seen. So stupid to fuck up the team and set up that won against Romania... my God...

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Re: German rugby

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 10 Jan 2018, 07:16

All this happened because they know we are waiting for revenge in Romania. Seconds after the game WRA&DRV will be friends again. To be more realistic they start all the drama during the summer but my eagle eye catch the move. And the climate change is a hoax.

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 10 Jan 2018, 08:00

datodato wrote:I'm not being arrogant and have no reason to. I'm not playing nor am I coaching for the GRU and even if I would be, I would have no reason to be arrogant to be clear. But this is just the biggest bs PR action I have ever seen. So stupid to fuck up the team and set up that won against Romania... my God...


The question is who f... the team up. I've been a neutral for a very long time as the WRA did a lot of good things on the top AND spreading rugby in Germany.
But now they willingly messed up a national team game and 6 weeks later we are still waiting to find out, what they actually want.

Let's be thankful that rugby has such a low profile in Germany. If it wouldn't have, this would have been the biggest scandal in German sporting history. Think about it: a sponsor trying to dominate the elected federation. An Olympic federation recognized by the state and getting funding from the state for being a high performance unit in 7s.

This is not a pr stunt. This is a necessary step to make sure something like the Chile game doesn't happen again. There were contracts broken that the players and Kobus would be available for the November internationals. I am not saying the DRV is perfect and doing everything right. On the other hand I am part of the DRV as I am a member of a German club. You can influence what happens in German rugby, if you like to do so. With WRA we are at mercy of a billionaire who can choose to drop out every minute (as we've seen in November). It is great to have Wild around and again some very good things were done, but this doesn't allow him to behave like a king.

Apart from that the WRA isn't perfect as well. No live-ticker from the Shield game in Portugal, not enough shirts at the game in Georgia. This doesn't really look that professional. Yeah it sucks, that we probably won't see the team who beat Romania last year playing again. And yeah I want the best players involved and everyone pulling on the same side, but what the WRA did is simply not acceptable.

I personally like Potgieter, from what I've personally experienced he is a great man on and off the pitch, but under this circumstances they simply couldn't hold on to him as much as I would have liked. (By the way he was "on holiday from WRA" and paid by the DRV while coaching for the XV) The DRV made the optimum out of this BS situation and those are very good signings even under different circumstances.

It's not that there are that many good coaches available to t2/t3-countries. Eddie Jones has a contract on a rainy island afaik and Steve Hansen coaches somewhere in the Pacific. :D
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby datodato » Wed, 10 Jan 2018, 12:37

I obviously don‘t know as much as you do but it is really sad to see all this. Obviously things are happening now and on a short term basis but only after the strike the Union started moving it seems to me. So now all the blame will be on the Union: If Germany will lose every REC game and will not qualify for the 7s Series, will there be personal changes in the Union? Or are there just the same people doing the same things for the last decade? If the DRV can‘t qualify for the RWC and for the 7s Series who will be to blame now? What change will happen? Because to me it looks like you have the same people there now who ended up in the 2rd division before Wild came along and put them in the top division and won against Romania. Why are these people doing it again? Why do you elect losers to the Union?

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Re: German rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 10 Jan 2018, 12:39

datodato wrote:If the DRV can‘t qualify for the RWC and for the 7s Series who will be to blame now? What change will happen?

Do we realise that's the most probable outcome whoever plays and coaches for Germany? I mean, Germany has Romania, Russia and Spain ahead of them in the race for RWC and Ireland must be favourites in Hong Kong 7s...
REC 2018 never happened. Please respect my beliefs

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 10 Jan 2018, 14:35

Armchair Fan wrote:
datodato wrote:If the DRV can‘t qualify for the RWC and for the 7s Series who will be to blame now? What change will happen?

Do we realise that's the most probable outcome whoever plays and coaches for Germany? I mean, Germany has Romania, Russia and Spain ahead of them in the race for RWC and Ireland must be favourites in Hong Kong 7s...



This. I'm not sure, datodato, if you do realize what you are talking about. The DRV was a federation with 2,5 full-time employees until two, three years ago and close to bankruptcy.
They've already come a long way from then. If Spain wouldn't have been the better team (or we would've scored one single lucky try more) in the HK Qualifier we would be now a World Series Team. Unbelievable achievements for where we came from. The 15s success (and staying up is a success no team managed the last 8-10 years before) is fueled by a sponsor, but most of the 7s success is due to very hard DRV work including a lot of lobbying to gain state funds (which are btw. only allowed to be used for 7s.). 15s is a little bit different, as we already were in the REC before Wild - just to get relegated again.

But the RWC is out of reach without more financial help and when the biggest donor decides to quit because he doesn't accept non negiotable things (like a federation having the last word about their national team). If we manage to stay up, that's a success. If we go down, the WRA is clearly to blame from my POV. And the reason is, that I can't think about a single thing, the DRV could have handled the situation any better after the eclat in november. While the WRA hasn't done or said anything to solve the apparent problems.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby olivier » Wed, 10 Jan 2018, 15:18

datodato wrote:I obviously don‘t know as much as you do but it is really sad to see all this. Obviously things are happening now and on a short term basis but only after the strike the Union started moving it seems to me. So now all the blame will be on the Union: If Germany will lose every REC game and will not qualify for the 7s Series, will there be personal changes in the Union? Or are there just the same people doing the same things for the last decade? If the DRV can‘t qualify for the RWC and for the 7s Series who will be to blame now? What change will happen? Because to me it looks like you have the same people there now who ended up in the 2rd division before Wild came along and put them in the top division and won against Romania. Why are these people doing it again? Why do you elect losers to the Union?


Clubs are very conservative in Germany. They want to stay at amateur level.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 10 Jan 2018, 15:24

Until a billionaire appears.

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Re: German rugby

Postby datodato » Wed, 10 Jan 2018, 15:29

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:
datodato wrote:If the DRV can‘t qualify for the RWC and for the 7s Series who will be to blame now? What change will happen?

Do we realise that's the most probable outcome whoever plays and coaches for Germany? I mean, Germany has Romania, Russia and Spain ahead of them in the race for RWC and Ireland must be favourites in Hong Kong 7s...



This. I'm not sure, datodato, if you do realize what you are talking about. The DRV was a federation with 2,5 full-time employees until two, three years ago and close to bankruptcy.
They've already come a long way from then. If Spain wouldn't have been the better team (or we would've scored one single lucky try more) in the HK Qualifier we would be now a World Series Team. Unbelievable achievements for where we came from. The 15s success (and staying up is a success no team managed the last 8-10 years before) is fueled by a sponsor, but most of the 7s success is due to very hard DRV work including a lot of lobbying to gain state funds (which are btw. only allowed to be used for 7s.). 15s is a little bit different, as we already were in the REC before Wild - just to get relegated again.

But the RWC is out of reach without more financial help and when the biggest donor decides to quit because he doesn't accept non negiotable things (like a federation having the last word about their national team). If we manage to stay up, that's a success. If we go down, the WRA is clearly to blame from my POV. And the reason is, that I can't think about a single thing, the DRV could have handled the situation any better after the eclat in november. While the WRA hasn't done or said anything to solve the apparent problems.


How about giving the player a plan for the future before they went on strike? Would that have been a better idea. So if they lose it will be Wilds fault and if they stay in the division it will be the heroic DRV? Boy... I would love a strong German team but you just destroy yourself and it looks like you want to be relegated and lose and lose. Maybe it would be good for the guys who wanted to establish the 7s game to have a weak 15s. With a weak 15s team, 7s will count only.

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Re: German rugby

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 10 Jan 2018, 19:43

Could someone describe the dispute in one sentence? I don't really understand what has caused the fallout and what are the stumbling blocks to returning to last year's set up.

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