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German rugby

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Re: German rugby

Postby sanitycheck » Sat, 15 Jul 2017, 09:57

Germany to play USA in November tests -this is one match i cant wait to see.

Korea and Brazil on the schedule too.
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Re: German rugby

Postby CM » Thu, 27 Jul 2017, 10:03

Germany has a new 7s coach. Vuyolwetu Zangqa will take over from Chad Shepherd. Von Grumbkow will also be coaching the team.
Zangqa was already a guest coach last year.
Edit: or not? It is not on totalrugby.de anymore.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Neptune » Thu, 27 Jul 2017, 14:41

CM wrote:Germany has a new 7s coach. Vuyolwetu Zangqa will take over from Chad Shepherd. Von Grumbkow will also be coaching the team.
Zangqa was already a guest coach last year.
Edit: or not? It is not on totalrugby.de anymore.


Aaaah, its Vuyo. He was with Kenya 7s for 2 seasons. Fantastic chap that man. All the best to Vuyo and Germany. :)

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 04 Aug 2017, 11:43

So Vuyolwetu Zangqa was now officiall confirmed as new 7s head coach. Ex-captain Clemens von Grumbkow will be his assistant coach.

Problem was that Chad Shepard wasn't eligibile under German law as he didn't have the licences to be officially employed as a national coach (and be paid by the German state). He was paid until shortly directly by the Wild Rugby Academy. Vuyo has the licences.

Also Chris Lane is newly employed as headcoach technique and development. He's job is to set up Berlin as the third hub after Heidelberg and Hanover. This makes totally sense as there are many clubs in Berlin as well as in the surrounding Brandenburg-area. Lane was already involved in the German 7s set-up. Previously he was the head coach of both the Autralian 7s and the Netherland 7s female programs.

Long interview with Chad Shepard (no bad blood involved)
http://www.totalrugby.de/content/view/9049/38/

Vuyolwetu Zangqa confirmation
http://www.totalrugby.de/content/view/9041/38/

Chris Lane employed
http://www.totalrugby.de/content/view/9050/169/
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Sat, 05 Aug 2017, 13:38, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby sanitycheck » Fri, 04 Aug 2017, 22:16

*Chad Shepherd
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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Sat, 05 Aug 2017, 13:38

sanitycheck wrote:*Chad Shepherd


Thanks. Edited it
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Mon, 07 Aug 2017, 09:25

A nice detailed look at the German national side.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/analysis-germany/

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Re: German rugby

Postby BLASICO » Mon, 07 Aug 2017, 10:14

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:A nice detailed look at the German national side.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/analysis-germany/



Great marketing campaign!
When will Spain have this kind of media support?

Money is money.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 07 Aug 2017, 10:52

When our FER enters 21st century.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Horsehead » Wed, 09 Aug 2017, 12:20

Has there been any announcements for the venues for Germany's Nov internationals yet?

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 09 Aug 2017, 13:09

Horsehead wrote:Has there been any announcements for the venues for Germany's Nov internationals yet?


Apart from the USA declaring that they play in Frankfurt, I haven't read anything yet. Frankfurt could mean either Volksbank Stadion or Bieberer Berg in Offenbach. Both stadiums are great and actually just 20km away from Frankfurt airport.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby myth » Wed, 09 Aug 2017, 18:59

Horsehead wrote:Has there been any announcements for the venues for Germany's Nov internationals yet?
- 11/11/2017 against South Korea will most likely be played in Leipzig
- 18/11/2017 against USA will be played in Wiesbaden (official DRV information, 27/07/2017)

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Re: German rugby

Postby mulu » Wed, 09 Aug 2017, 19:03

myth wrote:
Horsehead wrote:Has there been any announcements for the venues for Germany's Nov internationals yet?
- 11/11/2017 against South Korea will most likely be played in Leipzig
- 18/11/2017 against USA will be played in Wiesbaden (official DRV information, 27/07/2017)


these informations are wrong!

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Re: German rugby

Postby DragonMike » Thu, 10 Aug 2017, 07:48

RugbyLiebe wrote:
mulu wrote:- The final of the 1st division was always to played in late October to give the 15s national team perfect preparation for the November tests.
- Soccer is so dominante in Germany that for now I'd rather be looking at times where soccer is not being played, for us to gain some attention then to follow soccers lead. American football is doing an alright (far from perfect job) with hosting the German Bowl in October. The winter sports are also only successful because they are lucky to happen in a time where soccer is in it's winter break (in regards of members some of them are even smaller then the DRV).
- Of course it doesn't make sense to synchronize the amateur levels (2nd Bundesliga and below, women and kids) with high performance.
- also nobody ever mentioned a 3,5 month summer break.

The whole thing was poorly prepared and is not suitable for every division, but I personally believe it is the best way moving forward if we were ever serious in making our 1st division more attractive and a pathway into our national teams. But that's just my 2 cents.


I often agree with you, but this time, after making up my mind, not.

- okay, that's possible, but would lead to a really close schedule in September/ October including one blocked weekend for the Oktoberfest 7s (which should be financed for more than just one year).

- After years of thoughts about this, in my opinion it makes no difference if soccer is on or not. Soccer is also on in October. The German bowl attendance has nothing to do wether there is soccer or not. Because there is always soccer on when the final is played. They are just good at bringing the AF community together for it. Playing in a "real" stadium might help. A smaller step in American Football where they already play in stadiums in the regular league.
Hotspots Heidelberg had no Bundesliga soccer in its region from 1990-2008 and hotspot Hanover from 1989-2002 and both failed to establish huge crowds for club games. Don't see that changing just because of a shift to a final in autumn.

I think you are right about winter sport, but it is also a quite cheap way to fill the program (and the public funded medias need a fig leave to show they show diversity in sport). Also the small federation you mentioned are winners. They are the ones bringing in the Olympic gold medals (luge, bobsleigh etc.) for Germany.

- Well if you just change the season halfs, we do have a 3,5 summer break. May till September.

But yeah lets see, now it stays the same for at least one year, maybe next year we have to look again if there might be a true benefit. Atm I personally don't see enough arguments for it.



And what do we have...... 2 of the 3 münich clubs (your city, right?) have a break from 21.10 to 7.4.17 - 24 WEEKS!!!! You can blame it on the cup or whatever, but every new system in the last 5 years has been screwed by fixture planning. That also affects SC 1880, where some potential future national players may be getting their first taste of adult rugby. Also, now that the first leaguers will be entering, prob. 3/4+ of 2nd division teams will about by the 2nd round start of November, meaning a minimum 22 week break, and almost half will be out in August.

The last regular game of the season is 2.6.18 followed by 5 weeks of cup and league playoffs. If the season then starts again last week of August the summer break from 15s is just 3-8 weeks depending on how you measure it.

The clubs are voting with their feet..... Just 5 teams in Bl2 North, and 6 in Bl2 south. Paderborn, Darmstadt, Nuremburg, Bielefeld, Lübeck and Wiedenbrück, Kaiserslautern all rejected playing in the Bundesliga. RGH 2 and HRK 2 for cost reasons too. The regional leagues are the fullest they have ever been.

This year just one team that automatically qualified for the Bundesliga actually promoted, Berliner SV.

Once again, a new system, and it is f***e*.

Thanks god some sensible people are in charge of the national teams and not the clubs. Oh, wait.....

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Re: German rugby

Postby mulu » Thu, 10 Aug 2017, 08:25

DragonMike wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
mulu wrote:- The final of the 1st division was always to played in late October to give the 15s national team perfect preparation for the November tests.
- Soccer is so dominante in Germany that for now I'd rather be looking at times where soccer is not being played, for us to gain some attention then to follow soccers lead. American football is doing an alright (far from perfect job) with hosting the German Bowl in October. The winter sports are also only successful because they are lucky to happen in a time where soccer is in it's winter break (in regards of members some of them are even smaller then the DRV).
- Of course it doesn't make sense to synchronize the amateur levels (2nd Bundesliga and below, women and kids) with high performance.
- also nobody ever mentioned a 3,5 month summer break.

The whole thing was poorly prepared and is not suitable for every division, but I personally believe it is the best way moving forward if we were ever serious in making our 1st division more attractive and a pathway into our national teams. But that's just my 2 cents.


I often agree with you, but this time, after making up my mind, not.

- okay, that's possible, but would lead to a really close schedule in September/ October including one blocked weekend for the Oktoberfest 7s (which should be financed for more than just one year).

- After years of thoughts about this, in my opinion it makes no difference if soccer is on or not. Soccer is also on in October. The German bowl attendance has nothing to do wether there is soccer or not. Because there is always soccer on when the final is played. They are just good at bringing the AF community together for it. Playing in a "real" stadium might help. A smaller step in American Football where they already play in stadiums in the regular league.
Hotspots Heidelberg had no Bundesliga soccer in its region from 1990-2008 and hotspot Hanover from 1989-2002 and both failed to establish huge crowds for club games. Don't see that changing just because of a shift to a final in autumn.

I think you are right about winter sport, but it is also a quite cheap way to fill the program (and the public funded medias need a fig leave to show they show diversity in sport). Also the small federation you mentioned are winners. They are the ones bringing in the Olympic gold medals (luge, bobsleigh etc.) for Germany.

- Well if you just change the season halfs, we do have a 3,5 summer break. May till September.

But yeah lets see, now it stays the same for at least one year, maybe next year we have to look again if there might be a true benefit. Atm I personally don't see enough arguments for it.



And what do we have...... 2 of the 3 münich clubs (your city, right?) have a break from 21.10 to 7.4.17 - 24 WEEKS!!!! You can blame it on the cup or whatever, but every new system in the last 5 years has been screwed by fixture planning. That also affects SC 1880, where some potential future national players may be getting their first taste of adult rugby. Also, now that the first leaguers will be entering, prob. 3/4+ of 2nd division teams will about by the 2nd round start of November, meaning a minimum 22 week break, and almost half will be out in August.

The last regular game of the season is 2.6.18 followed by 5 weeks of cup and league playoffs. If the season then starts again last week of August the summer break from 15s is just 3-8 weeks depending on how you measure it.

The clubs are voting with their feet..... Just 5 teams in Bl2 North, and 6 in Bl2 south. Paderborn, Darmstadt, Nuremburg, Bielefeld, Lübeck and Wiedenbrück, Kaiserslautern all rejected playing in the Bundesliga. RGH 2 and HRK 2 for cost reasons too. The regional leagues are the fullest they have ever been.

This year just one team that automatically qualified for the Bundesliga actually promoted, Berliner SV.

Once again, a new system, and it is f***e*.

Thanks god some sensible people are in charge of the national teams and not the clubs. Oh, wait.....


it's an absolute desaster...again!

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 10 Aug 2017, 13:13

DragonMike wrote:And what do we have...... 2 of the 3 münich clubs (your city, right?) have a break from 21.10 to 7.4.17 - 24 WEEKS!!!! You can blame it on the cup or whatever, but every new system in the last 5 years has been screwed by fixture planning. That also affects SC 1880, where some potential future national players may be getting their first taste of adult rugby. Also, now that the first leaguers will be entering, prob. 3/4+ of 2nd division teams will about by the 2nd round start of November, meaning a minimum 22 week break, and almost half will be out in August.


The fixture planning has again some strange decisions in it. Look at the soccer players. Clubs playing in the 4th division also have a three month break from December 2nd to March 3rd and they play 36-38 games plus potential playoffs per season.
So why isn't the league played in November? Answer: November tests. I have problems to understand it, why we can play a cup round but not a regular league game during that time-frame
Also I don't understand why we couldn't at least play a full round in 2017. BUT: In Munich you can't play game from December until Mid/End March. Its called winter with snow and stuff.


DragonMike wrote:The clubs are voting with their feet..... Just 5 teams in Bl2 North, and 6 in Bl2 south. Paderborn, Darmstadt, Nuremburg, Bielefeld, Lübeck and Wiedenbrück, Kaiserslautern all rejected playing in the Bundesliga. RGH 2 and HRK 2 for cost reasons too. The regional leagues are the fullest they have ever been.

This year just one team that automatically qualified for the Bundesliga actually promoted, Berliner SV.

Once again, a new system, and it is f***e*.

Thanks god some sensible people are in charge of the national teams and not the clubs. Oh, wait.....


This has absolutely nothing to do when we play. If it really would soccer wouldn't simply also play that way.

The next problem is that North and East simply don't seem to have the depth to have their own 2nd Bundesliga. If Bavaria wouldn't have grown (not talking about the playing level) we would have the same problem in South. There are the full 8 teams in 2BL South btw. And have been in every single season since the league reform. West was not understandable, but they got their act together and have full 8 teams again for this season. About RGH2 and HRK2 don't they most likely stay in the regional league because there their 17 years old can already play? Also you need all the licences twice?

Problem is overall the licences and that too many rugby clubs in Germany don't care enough about youth and about growing and about making rugby more popular. Some are really comfortable with playing in a beer team. But we also have an administrative problem. This means the clubs are not long enough administered by the same people and a lot of knowledge how to do the organisational things gets lost every year in the younger clubs.
Also there are many new clubs and older clubs are simply not consistent enough to play on that level for years, because they most likely don't have a (full) youth system to feed from. If you rely mostly on uni-students which many clubs do, you have problems, when some guys finish their studies at once (all what I wrote could be applied to Nuremberg i.e.).

Those are all problems, but none has anything to do if we play with a winter-break or with the calendar. When I first heard about it, I was really open towards it, but I don't see this solving any problems at all. I wish it would.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby mulu » Thu, 10 Aug 2017, 13:21

RugbyLiebe wrote:
DragonMike wrote:And what do we have...... 2 of the 3 münich clubs (your city, right?) have a break from 21.10 to 7.4.17 - 24 WEEKS!!!! You can blame it on the cup or whatever, but every new system in the last 5 years has been screwed by fixture planning. That also affects SC 1880, where some potential future national players may be getting their first taste of adult rugby. Also, now that the first leaguers will be entering, prob. 3/4+ of 2nd division teams will about by the 2nd round start of November, meaning a minimum 22 week break, and almost half will be out in August.


The fixture planning has again some strange decisions in it. Look at the soccer players. Clubs playing in the 4th division also have a three month break from December 2nd to March 3rd and they play 36-38 games plus potential playoffs per season.
So why isn't the league played in November? Answer: November tests. I have problems to understand it, why we can play a cup round but not a regular league game during that time-frame
Also I don't understand why we couldn't at least play a full round in 2017. BUT: In Munich you can't play game from December until Mid/End March. Its called winter with snow and stuff.


DragonMike wrote:The clubs are voting with their feet..... Just 5 teams in Bl2 North, and 6 in Bl2 south. Paderborn, Darmstadt, Nuremburg, Bielefeld, Lübeck and Wiedenbrück, Kaiserslautern all rejected playing in the Bundesliga. RGH 2 and HRK 2 for cost reasons too. The regional leagues are the fullest they have ever been.

This year just one team that automatically qualified for the Bundesliga actually promoted, Berliner SV.

Once again, a new system, and it is f***e*.

Thanks god some sensible people are in charge of the national teams and not the clubs. Oh, wait.....


This has absolutely nothing to do when we play. If it really would soccer wouldn't simply also play that way.

The next problem is that North and East simply don't seem to have the depth to have their own 2nd Bundesliga. If Bavaria wouldn't have grown (not talking about the playing level) we would have the same problem in South. There are the full 8 teams in 2BL South btw. And have been in every single season since the league reform. West was not understandable, but they got their act together and have full 8 teams again for this season. About RGH2 and HRK2 don't they most likely stay in the regional league because there their 17 years old can already play? Also you need all the licences twice?

Problem is overall the licences and that too many rugby clubs in Germany don't care enough about youth and about growing and about making rugby more popular. Some are really comfortable with playing in a beer team. But we also have an administrative problem. This means the clubs are not long enough administered by the same people and a lot of knowledge how to do the organisational things gets lost every year in the younger clubs.
Also there are many new clubs and older clubs are simply not consistent enough to play on that level for years, because they most likely don't have a (full) youth system to feed from. If you rely mostly on uni-students which many clubs do, you have problems, when some guys finish their studies at once (all what I wrote could be applied to Nuremberg i.e.).

Those are all problems, but none has anything to do if we play with a winter-break or with the calendar. When I first heard about it, I was really open towards it, but I don't see this solving any problems at all. I wish it would.


It solves one very important problem, the league finals colliding with the GPS (and in the new season this will be even worse than in the years before, as the final will even later then it was in 2017; btw: we were the only union participating in the gps still playing league games mid of june and now we will play on till July, absolute madness).

The cup will be played without national team players and for that matter can be played in November (I'm not saying this is an legitimate argument, though). This is the worst schedule ever and will lead to an absolute disaster; unfortunately not a single rugby player (or former rugby player) with half a brain has ever agreed to take charge of the scheduling and that is what you get if you have the same old volunteers in charge for 20+ years, who even agreed for new first division club Neckarslum to postpone there FIRST EVER 1st division game for a street carnival they want to be part of...

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Re: German rugby

Postby sanitycheck » Thu, 10 Aug 2017, 13:48

My oh my :( :(

Thats even worse...
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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 10 Aug 2017, 14:15

mulu wrote:It solves one very important problem, the league finals colliding with the GPS (and in the new season this will be even worse than in the years before, as the final will even later then it was in 2017; btw: we were the only union participating in the gps still playing league games mid of june and now we will play on till July, absolute madness).


Okay this is madness. Wasn't aware as those dates weren't part of the plan sent out to clubs yet. But it has everything to do with the November break. There we lose 3-4 weekends. Use just two of them (i.e. if a national team game is in South/West just play in North/East and vice versa. But still we are talking about 14 bloody games per season + 2 playoff-games. If we can't fit that in some kind of schedule maybe we are simply not competent enough.

mulu wrote:The cup will be played without national team players and for that matter can be played in November (I'm not saying this is an legitimate argument, though). This is the worst schedule ever and will lead to an absolute disaster; unfortunately not a single rugby player (or former rugby player) with half a brain has ever agreed to take charge of the scheduling and that is what you get if you have the same old volunteers in charge for 20+ years, who even agreed for new first division club Neckarslum to postpone there FIRST EVER 1st division game for a street carnival they want to be part of...


I disagree about Neckarsulm. This is about growing our game. This is indeed an important reason to make sure we don't play outside of public interest for ever.
Also you might think that they probably planned that more than the 4 weeks in advance the game schedule was planned. I don't know the details, but as ridiculous as it sounds at first this might be something which absolutely makes sense i.e. for them to promote their home games.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby DragonMike » Thu, 10 Aug 2017, 14:56

I know the leadership of Darmstadt, Paderborn and Wiedenbrück, and this is the main reason. They are all good enough to play Bundesliga. Wiedenbrück have an excellent youth system for a tiny town, Paderborn and Bielefeld are 50% soldiers, and Darmstadt have good young players studying but from Heidelberg.

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Re: German rugby

Postby DragonMike » Thu, 10 Aug 2017, 15:09

RugbyLiebe wrote:But still we are talking about 14 bloody games per season + 2 playoff-games. If we can't fit that in some kind of schedule maybe we are simply not competent enough.


This.........

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 10 Aug 2017, 19:35

DragonMike wrote:I know the leadership of Darmstadt, Paderborn and Wiedenbrück, and this is the main reason. They are all good enough to play Bundesliga. Wiedenbrück have an excellent youth system for a tiny town, Paderborn and Bielefeld are 50% soldiers, and Darmstadt have good young players studying but from Heidelberg.


To be sure what do you mean with "this is the reason".
Travel costs? From a Bavarian perspective there I always feel the need to tell them to man up. The biggest distance last year was 412km one-way from Würzburg to Bad Reichenhall in the Regionalliga.
It for sure is not because we play with a winter break. Because if this would be a real problem there would be no sports in Germany. If you are a real club with a solid administration you simply don't opt out to play in a higher league because there is a winter break. This would be really ridiculous.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby myth » Thu, 10 Aug 2017, 20:18

RugbyLiebe wrote:
DragonMike wrote:I know the leadership of Darmstadt, Paderborn and Wiedenbrück, and this is the main reason. They are all good enough to play Bundesliga. Wiedenbrück have an excellent youth system for a tiny town, Paderborn and Bielefeld are 50% soldiers, and Darmstadt have good young players studying but from Heidelberg.


To be sure what do you mean with "this is the reason".
Travel costs? From a Bavarian perspective there I always feel the need to tell them to man up. The biggest distance last year was 412km one-way from Würzburg to Bad Reichenhall in the Regionalliga.
It for sure is not because we play with a winter break. Because if this would be a real problem there would be no sports in Germany. If you are a real club with a solid administration you simply don't opt out to play in a higher league because there is a winter break. This would be really ridiculous.

"these informations are wrong!"

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 11 Aug 2017, 07:20

myth wrote:"these informations are wrong!"


:?:
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby CM » Fri, 11 Aug 2017, 16:49

mulu wrote:
myth wrote:
Horsehead wrote:Has there been any announcements for the venues for Germany's Nov internationals yet?
- 11/11/2017 against South Korea will most likely be played in Leipzig
- 18/11/2017 against USA will be played in Wiesbaden (official DRV information, 27/07/2017)


these informations are wrong!


Could you tell us when those informations will be available? It was supposed to be "zeitnah", and otherwise rumors will be everything to go on.

Regarding the Winterbreak: I have no clue why the first half of november and the second half of march aren't used. This doesn't make sense. But I like the fact that the regional divisions are getting fuller and fewer clubs have to play on a level which they are not yet ready for. Because what we need more than most things in German rugby is, in my opinion, clubs spread along the country. The top is getting better and Get into rugby works, but the level between is even more important.

By the way Rugby is going to be a "Focus Sport" in two other states soon (Baden-Württemberg should be joined by Hesse and Lower Saxony) and Performance centers are supposed to be built up in Berlin and Frankfurt. Together with the old centers in Heidelberg and Hanover this would be a great thing. Stade Francais just trained with the German XV the Oktoberfest 7s are coming, whats not to like.

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