Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

German rugby

Posts: 2208
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 05 Mar 2018, 12:59

germanbullsfan wrote:This does not happen, therefore the breach is already to big. And its geting political . On the one hand the DRV with his romantic naive socialdemocratic approach to the thing and on the other hand the modern marketliberal professional orientated approach to the course. The reality showed that professional model delivered the right results sportswise and media commercialwise and the other part just wanted participating for free from other peoples money!


While I do agree that the separation between 15s and 7s was working and lead to really great results, it didn't work out in the end. Leading us to the mess we are now in. My theory is of the root of the dispute is, the DRV with 7s wanted 15s players and vice-versa. And I have simply no solution for this problem.

Also you make a logical mistake. The approach by Wild is not marketliberal at all. Basically taking over the national team is the equivalent of going for a straight and undisputed monopoly. That's the huge problem with it. Or do you think somebody else could set up another "German national team" and they fight to be the true one? Not possible in the world of sports. That's why national teams are in every sport run by independent and democratic institutions aka federations.

Why wasn't just a little bit more effort put in to become the decision makers in the DRV in a democratic way? Why didn't somebody from the WRA seriously run for president? The presidency is now up for grabs now again. So I hope for the good of rugby in Germany they put forward a good plan how they like to handle things. And I have money, let me just handle it, won't be enough as we need a clear concept to reunite again. If it is behind the WRA, fair enough. But after this boycott, I doubt the WRA can get a majority of the clubs behind them (or they need an extremely good plan).

Because as Olivier wrote, and I have to agree with him, after the last hope went down with the game in Belgium, as things are, we will have a hard time in the RET.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 2657
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: German rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 05 Mar 2018, 13:08

RugbyLiebe wrote:Because as Olivier wrote, and I have to agree with him, after the last hope went down with the game in Belgium, as things are, we will have a hard time in the RET.

DRV is still in time to pay Wild's ransom for the play-off against Portugal.

User avatar
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue, 22 Apr 2014, 05:29
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: German rugby

Postby germanbullsfan » Mon, 05 Mar 2018, 13:26

Armchair Fan wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:Because as Olivier wrote, and I have to agree with him, after the last hope went down with the game in Belgium, as things are, we will have a hard time in the RET.

DRV is still in time to pay Wild's ransom for the play-off against Portugal.


And when they use whats left of there brains , they will excatly do that pay the money and get out the jail!

Posts: 4
Joined: Sat, 03 Mar 2018, 17:13
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: German rugby

Postby sportgehtimmer » Mon, 05 Mar 2018, 18:27

Did the DRV has the money to support two teams? As you write, the money for the 7s team is only for the 7s team. This money can't be user for 15s. So were should the money come?
From sponsors. But how is it with DHL, do they support any team in the RET? Do you know one?
I don't think that macron pays to be the supplier for the DRV.

Is there another sponsor?

I thought all before the strike it was a good system. The DRV gets money from Germany für 7s and build up a good team für the olympics. Also they manage the league system in Germany. An the other site is WRA, they build up the XV. So the DRV didn't have to invest in this, but get the reputation for the wins, also it helps the league.
So there were two sides, paying both teams.

Now, there is one side, with no money and so which no employees. They can't pay the coaching staff the whole year, do they? They only can pay the 7s coaching und trainings because of the money from DOSB (german olympic organization).

User avatar
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue, 22 Apr 2014, 05:29
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: German rugby

Postby germanbullsfan » Mon, 05 Mar 2018, 19:26

sportgehtimmer wrote:Did the DRV has the money to support two teams? As you write, the money for the 7s team is only for the 7s team. This money can't be user for 15s. So were should the money come?
From sponsors. But how is it with DHL, do they support any team in the RET? Do you know one?
I don't think that macron pays to be the supplier for the DRV.

Is there another sponsor?

I thought all before the strike it was a good system. The DRV gets money from Germany für 7s and build up a good team für the olympics. Also they manage the league system in Germany. An the other site is WRA, they build up the XV. So the DRV didn't have to invest in this, but get the reputation for the wins, also it helps the league.
So there were two sides, paying both teams.

Now, there is one side, with no money and so which no employees. They can't pay the coaching staff the whole year, do they? They only can pay the 7s coaching und trainings because of the money from DOSB (german olympic organization).


You got the point , they cant support the two teams . And they will lose both teams , the XV side is already doomed and the 7s team missed the golden oppertunity last year , the will not qualify for the WS because there are always 1 and this year two teams better in HK and europe , they cant even win there preperation tournaments against 2nd class opponents . So at the end of this year german rugby will lose everything , relegation lost , no qualifiing , and HRK dont make it to the Challenge Cup

Posts: 1227
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: German rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 05 Mar 2018, 19:45

The easiest way to lose WR Grants is to become worse in XVs. At some point that money will dry up. It's the DRV's responsibility to grow the game, to field national teams. If they choose to field the National Team, like they did with the Wild Rugby Academy taking up the bulk of the weight that is their choice. However, it is not the National team's job to grow the game through evangelization. They grow the game by performing.

Posts: 376
Joined: Fri, 15 Aug 2014, 13:57

Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Fri, 09 Mar 2018, 15:10

Hope Germany gets their act together for the Relegation battle with Portugal. To think that a year ago some placed them as contenders to be Europe 2 (maybe not 100% RWC Qualifier potential, but maybe repechage participants) and are now Nr28 in the world behind Brazil or Netherlands -2 sides well beaten by the Germans in not so distant past- is a pity.

User avatar
Posts: 990
Joined: Thu, 16 Jul 2015, 17:26
National Flag:
GeorgiaGeorgia

Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Fri, 09 Mar 2018, 15:15

Thats why Rugby Union must be centralize system. and controll all thr clubs and academies in the country.

Heidelberg is not Montpellier or Saracens to have such a huge power.
German national team is destroyed by Heidelberg.

Posts: 376
Joined: Fri, 15 Aug 2014, 13:57

Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Fri, 09 Mar 2018, 15:31

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:Thats why Rugby Union must be centralize system. and controll all thr clubs and academies in the country.

Heidelberg is not Montpellier or Saracens to have such a huge power.
German national team is destroyed by Heidelberg.


I think the last 10 pages of this thread are dedicated to through darts between Heidelberg / Wild / DRV lovers and haters. I read it, I have my opinion, and really don´t want to stir things up again on that front.

I genuinely hope things get better, the Rugby World needs to have more competitive teams.

Posts: 1227
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: German rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 09 Mar 2018, 17:46

Word on the street is funds have been cut for the Women's program. Considering how WR plans to start aligning additional HP funds for women that is a significant problem.

Posts: 2208
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 09 Mar 2018, 21:19

TheStroBro wrote:Word on the street is funds have been cut for the Women's program. Considering how WR plans to start aligning additional HP funds for women that is a significant problem.


My first thought is, that this would be surprising as there was not even a 15s national team until 1-2 years ago.
Nothing there to be cut.
Women's 7s lost their Olympic program funding some years ago when they got relegated to 2nd European 7s Series.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 2657
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: German rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 09 Mar 2018, 22:21

I thought the same and I didn't want to post it... I believe they even had to crowdfund their way to European Championship. If they need to cut something, there's not much to win by killing women's rugby.

From a totally ignorant POV, since I don't know who pays for it, I would first stop sending U18 7s to Namibia.

Posts: 4
Joined: Sat, 03 Mar 2018, 17:13
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: German rugby

Postby sportgehtimmer » Sat, 10 Mar 2018, 19:45

As written before, the 7s team and also I think the youth teams are paid by german olympic organization, also the state.

Posts: 198
Joined: Sat, 31 May 2014, 21:12
National Flag:
FranceFrance

Re: German rugby

Postby vino_93 » Wed, 28 Mar 2018, 10:58

Wild interviewed in Rugbyrama : https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2 ... tory.shtml

For the first time in France he presents himself as Swiss, not German. Only last question is about Germany. It looks like he is ready to stop all his investments there. But their will be a meeting soon.

Posts: 2250
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 09:18
Location: Bucharest
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: German rugby

Postby amz » Wed, 28 Mar 2018, 11:09

Heidelberger RK: Kehoma Brenner

How is he in the team? Not contracted as coach by HRK and only an amateur?

http://www.rugby-verband.de/regelversto ... ft-weiter/

Posts: 175
Joined: Sun, 21 May 2017, 09:02
National Flag:
PolandPoland

Re: German rugby

Postby rey200 » Wed, 28 Mar 2018, 12:29

wild guesses from my side.

1. he could been released from Wild Academy
2. Maybe DRV decided to recompensate WRA somehow

User avatar
Posts: 2117
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: German rugby

Postby 4N » Wed, 28 Mar 2018, 12:34

vino_93 wrote:Wild interviewed in Rugbyrama : https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2 ... tory.shtml

For the first time in France he presents himself as Swiss, not German. Only last question is about Germany. It looks like he is ready to stop all his investments there. But their will be a meeting soon.


Since a club in the French system is what he wanted, maybe he should start working with Sevette Geneva.

Posts: 1227
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: German rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 28 Mar 2018, 15:30

vino_93 wrote:Wild interviewed in Rugbyrama : https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2 ... tory.shtml

For the first time in France he presents himself as Swiss, not German. Only last question is about Germany. It looks like he is ready to stop all his investments there. But their will be a meeting soon.


Well, the Swiss don't seem to extradite any of their own citizens. I remember seeing that somewhere before now. He does maintain a residence in Zug.

Posts: 351
Joined: Thu, 04 Jun 2015, 12:34
National Flag:
RussiaRussia

Re: German rugby

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 11:53

On this day 60 years ago, Germany drew 6-6 away against France.

Posts: 376
Joined: Fri, 15 Aug 2014, 13:57

Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 10:39

amz wrote:Heidelberger RK: Kehoma Brenner

How is he in the team? Not contracted as coach by HRK and only an amateur?

http://www.rugby-verband.de/regelversto ... ft-weiter/


It may be possible that he isn´t part of the Pros anymore and just part of a HRK extended squad... I re-checked the list that traveled to Romania for the Continental Shield I see there´s 5 100% back rowers already in the likes of Ferreira, Otto, Schramm, Els and Ball (not counting players that have played there occasionally like ie: Vollenkemper)... all pretty solid players and contracted by Wild, so limited chances there.

Something I hadn´t noticed as I may have initially read the list very superficially, is that for these games (at least until now) Wynston Cameron Dow isn´t part of the "local" squad. I don´t want to add more wood to the fire as I don´t know the first thing of it, but would I be right in assuming it is due to HRK´s involvement in the Shield?

One has to wonder what is more important... Germany keeping an European spot (in what now seems to be a comedy tournament, yes) or HRK making it to the Challenge Cup...

Posts: 182
Joined: Wed, 19 Nov 2014, 10:11
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: German rugby

Postby CM » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 11:20

How many visitors does HRK have at most? 500?
So 500 people will see HRK play against TOP14, PRO14 and premiership teams?

Posts: 376
Joined: Fri, 15 Aug 2014, 13:57

Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 11:42

CM wrote:How many visitors does HRK have at most? 500?
So 500 people will see HRK play against TOP14, PRO14 and premiership teams?


Are these questions meant for me ?

If so, i´d say 1stly, HRK has to make it to the Challenge Cup for us to ask ourselves that question! ;)

IF (very BIG IF) HRK make it to the European stage, you think that their Bundesliga numbers are transferable to an Elite Competition?... I even think that despite being a very nice venue the games can´t even happen at HRK, they would have to be played elsewhere...

Posts: 182
Joined: Wed, 19 Nov 2014, 10:11
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: German rugby

Postby CM » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 11:58

Rhetorical questions.

And I just don't think that HRK will be the draw for fans that the national team can be.

And the national team sometimes made it out of the "rugby bubble". HRK won't.
I can't be sure of it, but I just don't see it happening.

Posts: 376
Joined: Fri, 15 Aug 2014, 13:57

Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 12:17

I would say, for any Rugby fan in Germany any Challenge Cup fixture will attract more interest than a Bundesliga game where you kind of expect HRK to thrash their opponent...

Depending on the team and their traveling roster I would venture to say there would be some attraction from bordering countries too... a ca. 2hr drive to see some T1 international players.... why not?

Then there´s the marketing round it...

But again, first they would have to make it to the Cup before jumping into anything! & both Russians and Romanians aren´t easy.

Posts: 182
Joined: Wed, 19 Nov 2014, 10:11
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: German rugby

Postby CM » Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 13:45

I am sceptical. Not out of malice, but the club doesn't have a BIG following after winning everything for the last years. I wouldn't trust their marketing.

And which top club actually takes the challenge cup serious? More and more teams seem to rest their top players to fight their league, especially the English and French clubs.

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], fridge46, Google [Bot] and 18 guests