Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

German rugby

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Re: German rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 01 Aug 2018, 18:52

So what would a pre-season top 10 in the Bundesliga look like now?

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 02 Aug 2018, 07:32

TheStroBro wrote:So what would a pre-season top 10 in the Bundesliga look like now?


Top10 is not really possible to predict, as the top2 teams from each division (South/West and North/East) make the semi-finals.

My guesses for those 4 semi-finalists are
1. 1880 Frankfurt
2. RG Heidelberg
3. Hannover 78
4. Germania List/RK 03 Berlin
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Tue, 07 Aug 2018, 08:35

Gorbeh wrote:@RugyLiebe: Do you have more information on the status of Stahl Henningsdorf and Berlin Grizzlies? Will they appeal the decisison to deny them the license for the second and first Bundesliga respectively?


SG Stahl Henningsdorf has been granted the 2.Bundesliga license (https://www.rugby-verband.de/lizenzverg ... undesliga/) No news on the Grizzlies yet, but they seem to have formed a 2nd team in the new RL NordOst format.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Gorbeh » Tue, 07 Aug 2018, 09:21

Raven wrote:SG Stahl Henningsdorf has been granted the 2.Bundesliga license (https://www.rugby-verband.de/lizenzverg ... undesliga/) No news on the Grizzlies yet, but they seem to have formed a 2nd team in the new RL NordOst format.



Thanks for the update. The second team of the Grizzlies, though, was already part of the RL East during last season. My last information was, that the Grizzlies' first team must start in the RL East if their appeal is denied. Hence they would start in place of the second team.

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 07 Aug 2018, 09:31

Gorbeh wrote:
Raven wrote:SG Stahl Henningsdorf has been granted the 2.Bundesliga license (https://www.rugby-verband.de/lizenzverg ... undesliga/) No news on the Grizzlies yet, but they seem to have formed a 2nd team in the new RL NordOst format.



Thanks for the update. The second team of the Grizzlies, though, was already part of the RL East during last season. My last information was, that the Grizzlies' first team must start in the RL East if their appeal is denied. Hence they would start in place of the second team.


What exactly is the issue with the Grizzlies?
I've read they are lacking a ref licence (not sure if one or more) and they are lacking those, because they had a youth team registered for the licence. If they wouldn't have registered a youth team they would have been granted the licence (but maybe with some points deducted). Is that correct? If so, that's kafkaesque.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Tue, 07 Aug 2018, 09:38

Gorbeh wrote:
Raven wrote:SG Stahl Henningsdorf has been granted the 2.Bundesliga license (https://www.rugby-verband.de/lizenzverg ... undesliga/) No news on the Grizzlies yet, but they seem to have formed a 2nd team in the new RL NordOst format.


Thanks for the update. The second team of the Grizzlies, though, was already part of the RL East during last season. My last information was, that the Grizzlies' first team must start in the RL East if their appeal is denied. Hence they would start in place of the second team.


I didn´t see their second team on any table before, that´s why I thought it was a new side.

It would be a pity for the whole North / East set up if they finally bring them down...

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Re: German rugby

Postby Gorbeh » Tue, 07 Aug 2018, 09:41

Jup it is @RugbyLiebe. Does anyone know why USV Potsdam is neither part of the 2. Bundesliga East anymore, nor in any of the RL East Groups, though they finished second inside the 2. East last season?

Raven wrote:I didn´t see their second team on any table before, that´s why I thought it was a new side.


Yes, you are right. I was under the false impression they were. My mistake.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Werner » Tue, 07 Aug 2018, 09:55

Gorbeh wrote:Does anyone know why USV Potsdam is neither part of the 2. Bundesliga East anymore, nor in any of the RL East Groups, though they finished second inside the 2. East last season?
They withdraw the team due to shortage of players. Expect them to play 7s only.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Blurandski » Wed, 08 Aug 2018, 16:43

So the Luxembourg club is offering 2,000 euros a month + flights for props and a centre. Pretty decent salary level.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Gorbeh » Wed, 08 Aug 2018, 19:33

Blurandski wrote:So the Luxembourg club is offering 2,000 euros a month + flights for props and a centre. Pretty decent salary level.


Which one? RC Luxembourg? They play in the Bundesliga, hence first tier. Luxembourg II and Walferdange play in the third tier. Nevertheless EUR 2,000 are not that much, considering purchasing power parity and the standard of living in Luxembourg.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Blurandski » Wed, 08 Aug 2018, 19:46

Gorbeh wrote:
Blurandski wrote:So the Luxembourg club is offering 2,000 euros a month + flights for props and a centre. Pretty decent salary level.


Which one? RC Luxembourg? They play in the Bundesliga, hence first tier. Luxembourg II and Walferdange play in the third tier. Nevertheless EUR 2,000 are not that much, considering purchasing power parity and the standard of living in Luxembourg.


It didn't name a club, but was Luxembourg team in the Bundesliga, so is likely RC Lux.

It's pretty decent compared to lower league salaries over here, I could definitely see some academy release-es taking up the offer.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Gorbeh » Wed, 08 Aug 2018, 19:56

Yes, it is decent, but have you accounted for the difference in purchasing power? Luxembourg is just very expensive. The PPP GDP per capita of Luxembourg is 109,192 USD compared to 61,360 USD Switzerland, 59,495 USD USA, 50,206 USD Germany, 43,550 USD France and 10,644 USD Georgia in 2017 according to the IMF.

Hence 2,000 EUR are way below the poverty line in Luxembourg.

Edit: And 43,620 USD for the UK in 2017.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Rich13 » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 10:09

My club Rotherham in National One, the English 3rd tier, have announced the signings of Antony Dickinson, Mark Fairhurst and Luis Ball, all recent German national team squad call-ups. Judging by names, I would guess they are also English qualified and from a quick google, I can see that they are all Wild Rugby Academy graduates.

I know next to nothing about German rugby.....but I did see that the national team was competitive (at home at least) with Samoa, so I am hopeful that these players will make an impact at N1 level. Does anybody have any views on the standard of these players & how previous German squad players who have moved to Britain/France have performed?

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 11:43

Rich13 wrote:My club Rotherham in National One, the English 3rd tier, have announced the signings of Antony Dickinson, Mark Fairhurst and Luis Ball, all recent German national team squad call-ups. Judging by names, I would guess they are also English qualified and from a quick google, I can see that they are all Wild Rugby Academy graduates.

I know next to nothing about German rugby.....but I did see that the national team was competitive (at home at least) with Samoa, so I am hopeful that these players will make an impact at N1 level. Does anybody have any views on the standard of these players & how previous German squad players who have moved to Britain/France have performed?


Ball is a German born and raised player. Should be quite a talent, but hasn't made a big impact in the national team yet.
Fairhurst is a 20-year-old born South African, who I actually was unaware that is only 20. He was paid by the WRA, but played with Neckarsulm last season. He started against Samoa as a hooker in the home game and he was up to it.
Anthony Dickinson is a prop who played the last 3 seasons for RG Heidelberg and also was employed by the WRA. Not sure where he played before. I think he was born in England.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 14:09

Gorbeh wrote:Yes, it is decent, but have you accounted for the difference in purchasing power? Luxembourg is just very expensive. The PPP GDP per capita of Luxembourg is 109,192 USD compared to 61,360 USD Switzerland, 59,495 USD USA, 50,206 USD Germany, 43,550 USD France and 10,644 USD Georgia in 2017 according to the IMF.

Hence 2,000 EUR are way below the poverty line in Luxembourg.

Edit: And 43,620 USD for the UK in 2017.


Yeah, but they're earning a wage in what is essentially an amateur competition...so 2k Euro when it's supposed to be a zero...

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Re: German rugby

Postby Blurandski » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 14:42

TheStroBro wrote:
Gorbeh wrote:Yes, it is decent, but have you accounted for the difference in purchasing power? Luxembourg is just very expensive. The PPP GDP per capita of Luxembourg is 109,192 USD compared to 61,360 USD Switzerland, 59,495 USD USA, 50,206 USD Germany, 43,550 USD France and 10,644 USD Georgia in 2017 according to the IMF.

Hence 2,000 EUR are way below the poverty line in Luxembourg.

Edit: And 43,620 USD for the UK in 2017.


Yeah, but they're earning a wage in what is essentially an amateur competition...so 2k Euro when it's supposed to be a zero...


The bundesliga isn’t amateur though, player payments are allowed.

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Re: German rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 15:55

Blurandski wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
Gorbeh wrote:Yes, it is decent, but have you accounted for the difference in purchasing power? Luxembourg is just very expensive. The PPP GDP per capita of Luxembourg is 109,192 USD compared to 61,360 USD Switzerland, 59,495 USD USA, 50,206 USD Germany, 43,550 USD France and 10,644 USD Georgia in 2017 according to the IMF.

Hence 2,000 EUR are way below the poverty line in Luxembourg.

Edit: And 43,620 USD for the UK in 2017.


Yeah, but they're earning a wage in what is essentially an amateur competition...so 2k Euro when it's supposed to be a zero...


The bundesliga isn’t amateur though, player payments are allowed.


Pretty much every player in the Bundesliga is contracted as a coach.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Tobar » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 20:29

Rich13 wrote:My club Rotherham in National One, the English 3rd tier, have announced the signings of Antony Dickinson, Mark Fairhurst and Luis Ball, all recent German national team squad call-ups. Judging by names, I would guess they are also English qualified and from a quick google, I can see that they are all Wild Rugby Academy graduates.

I know next to nothing about German rugby.....but I did see that the national team was competitive (at home at least) with Samoa, so I am hopeful that these players will make an impact at N1 level. Does anybody have any views on the standard of these players & how previous German squad players who have moved to Britain/France have performed?


How can they be EQP is they are capped by Germany?

As for talent level I would assume that if they are good enough for the national team they are good enough for National League 1. Looks like Rotherham really wants to get back into the championship.

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Re: German rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 23:00

Tobar wrote:
Rich13 wrote:My club Rotherham in National One, the English 3rd tier, have announced the signings of Antony Dickinson, Mark Fairhurst and Luis Ball, all recent German national team squad call-ups. Judging by names, I would guess they are also English qualified and from a quick google, I can see that they are all Wild Rugby Academy graduates.

I know next to nothing about German rugby.....but I did see that the national team was competitive (at home at least) with Samoa, so I am hopeful that these players will make an impact at N1 level. Does anybody have any views on the standard of these players & how previous German squad players who have moved to Britain/France have performed?


How can they be EQP is they are capped by Germany?

As for talent level I would assume that if they are good enough for the national team they are good enough for National League 1. Looks like Rotherham really wants to get back into the championship.

EQPs only matter in the Premiership, not sure why he thinks that's valid. There is no EQP payment to Championship teams.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Rich13 » Sat, 11 Aug 2018, 07:01

Good point, having been in the Championship for a long time, I was still thinking in those terms.

I guess signing players who have a U.K. passport might be useful given who knows what the status of EU passport holders will be shortly, but that’s a different issue.

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Re: German rugby

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 11 Aug 2018, 12:17

TheStroBro wrote:
Tobar wrote:
Rich13 wrote:My club Rotherham in National One, the English 3rd tier, have announced the signings of Antony Dickinson, Mark Fairhurst and Luis Ball, all recent German national team squad call-ups. Judging by names, I would guess they are also English qualified and from a quick google, I can see that they are all Wild Rugby Academy graduates.

I know next to nothing about German rugby.....but I did see that the national team was competitive (at home at least) with Samoa, so I am hopeful that these players will make an impact at N1 level. Does anybody have any views on the standard of these players & how previous German squad players who have moved to Britain/France have performed?


How can they be EQP is they are capped by Germany?

As for talent level I would assume that if they are good enough for the national team they are good enough for National League 1. Looks like Rotherham really wants to get back into the championship.

EQPs only matter in the Premiership, not sure why he thinks that's valid. There is no EQP payment to Championship teams.


That is wrong, in fact it is almost the opposite as the Championship has higher EQP targets than the Prem and a much greater proportion of their funding comes from EQP payments too.

Also Rotherham are not in the Championship in any case.

These guys will need European working rights to be allowed to be professionals in the third tier as third tier clubs cannot sponsor visas for professional players. Given they are capped for Germany I think it is almost certain they will qualify for German passports at least.

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Re: German rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 11 Aug 2018, 14:15

Show me on paper where the RFU pays the Championship sides money. The deal is with Premiership Limited.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Blurandski » Sat, 11 Aug 2018, 14:29

The RFU centrally funds almost all clubs in the league pyramid to varying degrees.

TheStroBro wrote:Show me on paper where the RFU pays the Championship sides money. The deal is with Premiership Limited.


https://www.drfc.co.uk/news/article/rfu ... artnership

'the Greene King IPA Championship continues to play a vital role in the development of English talent through the English Qualified Player (EQP) scheme, which financially rewards clubs for fielding home grown talent. The scheme – introduced into the league in 2011/12- forms an integral part of the funding structure and continues to do so throughout the new agreement.'

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Re: German rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 11 Aug 2018, 15:28

Blurandski wrote:The RFU centrally funds almost all clubs in the league pyramid to varying degrees.

TheStroBro wrote:Show me on paper where the RFU pays the Championship sides money. The deal is with Premiership Limited.


https://www.drfc.co.uk/news/article/rfu ... artnership

'the Greene King IPA Championship continues to play a vital role in the development of English talent through the English Qualified Player (EQP) scheme, which financially rewards clubs for fielding home grown talent. The scheme – introduced into the league in 2011/12- forms an integral part of the funding structure and continues to do so throughout the new agreement.'


Thanks, google wasn't helpful. I did learn that the RFU's subsidization of the Tyrell's Premier XVs is through EQP fees though.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Gnadental » Mon, 13 Aug 2018, 10:41

Hi,

Anybody know the actual playing sequence for the Repechage yet and where/ when tickets can be bought?

G

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