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German rugby

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Re: German rugby

Postby WolvesandEagles » Fri, 28 Jun 2019, 20:18

non
Last edited by WolvesandEagles on Thu, 04 Jul 2019, 13:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: German rugby

Postby DragonMike » Mon, 01 Jul 2019, 07:28

Not 'Bullshit', that was a first post, and it was clearly intended to stir stuff up elsewhere, but fair point that probably the letter wasn't fully intended to remain private, telling tales was an unfortunate turn of phrase so apologies for that. This forum has begun to be used for anonymous actions against specific individuals, rather than an opportunity to have critical discussions semi-anonymously.

When things get personal, people should put their names publicly behind their statements, or at least have history of posting here.

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Re: German rugby

Postby DragonMike » Mon, 01 Jul 2019, 07:35

Cool, actual proposals ahead of DRT. Progress!

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 05 Jul 2019, 18:20

Livestream for the relegation/promotion-playoff between RC Rottweil and Pforzheim saturday at 14:45 h

https://sportdeutschland.tv/rugby/1-lig ... oplay=true
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Tue, 30 Jul 2019, 21:51

So, the pools of the 1.Bundesliga and 2.Bundesliga are out.
Rugby Luxembourg seems to be gone from the German scene? And another missing club is TGS Hausen who played the final stages for promotion the last 2 seasons. I’m never going to understand these things.

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 31 Jul 2019, 07:46

Raven wrote:So, the pools of the 1.Bundesliga and 2.Bundesliga are out.
Rugby Luxembourg seems to be gone from the German scene? And another missing club is TGS Hausen who played the final stages for promotion the last 2 seasons. I’m never going to understand these things.


I read something that there were issues with one of the licences in South/West. Looks like it was RC Luxembourg. If I'm not wrong, they might still show up, if those issues are sorted. TGS Hausen had apparently a lot of players leaving for Offenbach, so maybe the retreated due too not enough players for that level.


Apart from that, the 2nd Bundesliga South has for the first time a Bavarian majority, with 5/8 clubs coming from the Freistaat. The favourites should be Rottweil and Neckarsulm though.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Werner » Wed, 31 Jul 2019, 08:37

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Raven wrote:So, the pools of the 1.Bundesliga and 2.Bundesliga are out.
Rugby Luxembourg seems to be gone from the German scene? And another missing club is TGS Hausen who played the final stages for promotion the last 2 seasons. I’m never going to understand these things.
I read something that there were issues with one of the licences in South/West. Looks like it was RC Luxembourg. If I'm not wrong, they might still show up, if those issues are sorted. TGS Hausen had apparently a lot of players leaving for Offenbach, so maybe the retreated due too not enough players for that level.
TGS Hausen is playing in the Regionalliga Hesse as part of the combined team "Black Lions" (Spielgemeinschaft Hausen/BSC2/Götzenhain).

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Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Sat, 10 Aug 2019, 12:56

I take the concern back, RC Luxembourg and their 2nd side are both included in the League system again.

What I don´t get is how (or why?) a team who fought for promotion and looked good for quite a while crumbles and merges with another 2 clubs now to play in RL (only cause theres no league below that) ...

Baden Württemberg as ever, being one of the last RLs to present the list of teams and fixtures. They better start focusing on their grassroots otherwise they will be eaten by othe provinces soon.

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Re: German rugby

Postby nick511 » Mon, 26 Aug 2019, 07:26

They just had a good segment on a NZ TV show about the German NZ Schools player Anton Segner, how he has been a standout for Nelson College this year and captioned the First XV to the UC Championship title (Crusaders region secondary schools rugby competition) on the weekend. He also got man of the match and got two tries. Nelson College travel south to play Otago Boys High School for the South Island Championship this weekend.

He also revealed on the show's segment that he's signed a two year deal to play for the Tasman Makos in next years Mitre 10 Cup. If he keeps this up he could make Super Rugby one day. I can't remember a German born player playing in the NPC in recent times!

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Re: German rugby

Postby A_FlyingMegaKiwi » Mon, 26 Aug 2019, 11:03

nick511 wrote:If he keeps this up he could make Super Rugby one day. I can't remember a German born player playing in the NPC in recent times!


I think I recall him mentioning at some point that his goal is to make the All Blacks! Not sure there's been a German-born player play for them either. :shock:

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Re: German rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 26 Aug 2019, 12:18


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Re: German rugby

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sun, 01 Sep 2019, 07:09

A_FlyingMegaKiwi wrote:
nick511 wrote:If he keeps this up he could make Super Rugby one day. I can't remember a German born player playing in the NPC in recent times!


I think I recall him mentioning at some point that his goal is to make the All Blacks! Not sure there's been a German-born player play for them either. :shock:


He's a German not an All Black. Now we will be accused of poaching Germans too! He needs to do what is right by his own country and what the Dutch guy didn't do, and that's play for and help his own country's rugby team who needs him and his talent way more. Boooo! :thumbdown: :x

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Re: German rugby

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sun, 01 Sep 2019, 07:11

nick511 wrote:They just had a good segment on a NZ TV show about the German NZ Schools player Anton Segner, how he has been a standout for Nelson College this year and captioned the First XV to the UC Championship title (Crusaders region secondary schools rugby competition) on the weekend. He also got man of the match and got two tries. Nelson College travel south to play Otago Boys High School for the South Island Championship this weekend.

He also revealed on the show's segment that he's signed a two year deal to play for the Tasman Makos in next years Mitre 10 Cup. If he keeps this up he could make Super Rugby one day. I can't remember a German born player playing in the NPC in recent times!


Very unlikely he'll make Super Rugby unless he declares to be eligible to play for ABs...which in my opinion he shouldn't be allowed to.

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Re: German rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 03 Sep 2019, 08:30

I can't blame him for chasing the All Blacks, on the other hand Germany having someone who grew up in the NZ system play for them would be monumental for the country.

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 03 Sep 2019, 09:05

YamahaKiwi wrote:
Very unlikely he'll make Super Rugby unless he declares to be eligible to play for ABs...which in my opinion he shouldn't be allowed to.


Well he is the captain of the team who are on their way to the national finals now (beat Otago last weekend, Palmerston North next up in the semis (?)), the talent and more important the will is apparently there.
He has declared he wants to play for the All Blacks. No idea how many years until he can (normally the living place of the parents counts). We will see.

thatrugbyguy wrote:I can't blame him for chasing the All Blacks, on the other hand Germany having someone who grew up in the NZ system play for them would be monumental for the country.


To be honest, we did have our share of Kiwi born players in the past :D (not as many as Saffas though). The more important question is: will he still make stories at home, if he plays for another country? But lets wait and see if he can make it to Super Rugby one day.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby rey200 » Tue, 03 Sep 2019, 09:24

well, what's the other possibility to become a professional rugby player? Maybe he will never make the ABs and then Germany, maybe, will have a much better player than if he wouldn't try. It's not poaching either in my opinion, he'll be an AB player coming through the NZ system.
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Re: German rugby

Postby YamahaKiwi » Tue, 03 Sep 2019, 11:59

Disagree, he came up first of all in the German system. He's a German. He should go and play for his own country and help them. We should have enough of our own talent. I my opinion it's fully poaching, even if the player himself is misguided in wanting to play for NZ. I fully hope he misses out and goes back and plays for Germany...or maybe he will be like the Dutch guy and just go to another T1 country until he can get picked for one in true mercenary fashion. Then we will really know he just thinks he's too good for his own country. If he does become an AB, I'm sorry but I will not support him, no matter how good he is. And I can't say that about any current or former AB player, except maybe Shayne Philpott in 1991!

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 03 Sep 2019, 12:30

YamahaKiwi wrote:Disagree, he came up first of all in the German system. He's a German. He should go and play for his own country and help them. We should have enough of our own talent. I my opinion it's fully poaching, even if the player himself is misguided in wanting to play for NZ. I fully hope he misses out and goes back and plays for Germany...or maybe he will be like the Dutch guy and just go to another T1 country until he can get picked for one in true mercenary fashion. Then we will really know he just thinks he's too good for his own country. If he does become an AB, I'm sorry but I will not support him, no matter how good he is. And I can't say that about any current or former AB player, except maybe Shayne Philpott in 1991!


This reflects more on what's wrong with rugby than what might be wrong with Segner. Everything I've seen and heard about him, is that he is a great guy off the pitch.
I mean you wrote it yourself, that he probably won't have the chance for a Super Rugby contract if he doesn't state to play for the All Blacks.

So let's think this through what options does he really have?
Due to the Apartheid system of the tier1 nations, he simply can't go anywhere else, apart from France. He won't get a contract in Ireland, Scotland or England until he is a "fully build player". What about his education there? Can he speak French good enough? I mean it definitely not as simple as English and rugby is not really a paying job like other sports, so that is a risk for someone from a rich country and definitely not from a poor family (as he went to an international private school in Frankfurt).

This is the environment created by the protectionist nations who are in charge at World Rugby. Under this circumstances I can't condemn him and I would advise my kids to go the same route if they wanted to.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby YamahaKiwi » Tue, 03 Sep 2019, 12:39

The Dutch guy went and got contracts In England and Scotland and got picked up by the latter. If he's not good enough to make the ABs he can always move and it would seem he will be good enough for a pro contract in Europe and can make himself available for their NT (Of course nowdays he would have to wait 5 years rather than just the 3...too bad in my opinion if you cannot stand to play for your own country). Otherwise other German guys got pro contracts in France and played (sometimes) for Germany. TBH I'd love it if he could get a SR contract here, and still play for Germany but as you said, with just a few exceptions, the NZRFU doesn't like to see that in our SR teams.

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 04 Sep 2019, 06:52

YamahaKiwi wrote:The Dutch guy went and got contracts In England and Scotland and got picked up by the latter. If he's not good enough to make the ABs he can always move and it would seem he will be good enough for a pro contract in Europe and can make himself available for their NT (Of course nowdays he would have to wait 5 years rather than just the 3...too bad in my opinion if you cannot stand to play for your own country). Otherwise other German guys got pro contracts in France and played (sometimes) for Germany. TBH I'd love it if he could get a SR contract here, and still play for Germany but as you said, with just a few exceptions, the NZRFU doesn't like to see that in our SR teams.


Tim Visser is actually a really interesting guy. I mean it is really strange that there are so few rugby players from smaller European nations playing within the Home Nations. The ratio of Georgians in France compared to the Home Nations is telling a lot. So what did the exception Visser do differently then all the others? There are a fews guys in France (that's why I wrote "apart from France). On the other hand, Visser moved to England in the 2000s, has something changed since then or is he the odd exception?

The situation in Ireland is like the situation in New Zealand, afaik Sebastian Fromm, traded his chances to play for a Leinster academy to play for Germany 7s.

The upside: In France the academy system apparently force their player to study or learn a trade while being under contract there. Eric Marks continued to study at the German university in Aachen while playing in La Rochelle. Not sure if he finished his studies though.

I mean there are ways, but compared to other sports, it is quite difficult and probably one of the main reasons rugby is kept back. Those players in better leagues is what makes smaller national teams better.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby sanitycheck » Wed, 04 Sep 2019, 08:19

YamahaKiwi wrote:Disagree, he came up first of all in the German system. He's a German. He should go and play for his own country and help them. We should have enough of our own talent. I my opinion it's fully poaching, even if the player himself is misguided in wanting to play for NZ. I fully hope he misses out and goes back and plays for Germany...or maybe he will be like the Dutch guy and just go to another T1 country until he can get picked for one in true mercenary fashion. Then we will really know he just thinks he's too good for his own country. If he does become an AB, I'm sorry but I will not support him, no matter how good he is. And I can't say that about any current or former AB player, except maybe Shayne Philpott in 1991!


Do you have the same view of the players that grew up in the Pacific Islands going through their systems then moved to New Zealand to become all blacks ?
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Re: German rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 04 Sep 2019, 08:23

There aren't that many...

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Re: German rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 04 Sep 2019, 08:35

We can't blame the players. It's the system itself that's broken. If it was a case where German rugby was at a T1 level, with full professionalism throughout the country and opportunities for the national team to play at the World Cup or the 6N then the player would be rightfully criticised for pursuing an All Black jersey, because then it's someone choosing the All Black brand over their national colours. The problem is the players can only go where the opportunities are.

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Re: German rugby

Postby dropkick » Wed, 04 Sep 2019, 08:55

It might be better for German rugby if Segner plays for NZ. It could get a bit of coverage in the media and some French clubs might scout more German players.

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Re: German rugby

Postby sanitycheck » Wed, 04 Sep 2019, 09:13

French clubs already do scout German players - regularly. I have no problem with Segner pursuing his dreams , hes a good kid, outstanding player and will go far regardless of where he plays.
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