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USA Rugby

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sat, 15 Apr 2017, 12:58

Most importantly will the new stadium have more rugby sized dimensions?

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 16 Apr 2017, 06:00

If you're a member of USAR, the February Semi-Annual Congress meeting minutes are live.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Deadtigers » Sun, 16 Apr 2017, 23:06

I think a stadium able to draw more fans will be better for WRSS stop, the LVI is a distant thought. They roll some turf over the parking lot for practice and warm-up of teams.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 17 Apr 2017, 13:17

YamahaKiwi wrote:Most importantly will the new stadium have more rugby sized dimensions?


Most new NFL stadiums in the last 10 years have been FIFA compliant, so it should be suitable for rugby also. With a probable World Cup coming in 2026 it would be highly unlikely the new LV stadium wouldn't also meet FIFA requirements.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Mon, 17 Apr 2017, 23:16


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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 18 Apr 2017, 02:25

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure France only has passport holders on the XVs side which you could say has limited their performance.

I'm actually quite a fan of the 5-year residency rule, hell I wish National Team players of all sports had to meet Olympic standards which is that of a Passport holder. In regards to AJ, time to become a citizen at this point if it's such a big deal.

However, from what I understand, the RFU is the only Union really pushing this. Even though the Home Nations and the Commonwealth have the most votes I read this thing as dead.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby carbonero » Tue, 18 Apr 2017, 03:14

TheStroBro wrote:However, from what I understand, the RFU is the only Union really pushing this. Even though the Home Nations and the Commonwealth have the most votes I read this thing as dead.


It is not dead. The vote is due next month in the World Rugby Council.

Argentina (2), England (2), France (2), New Zealand (2), South Africa (2) and Georgia (1) are most certainly voting in favor of the 5-year residency rule. CONSUR, Oceania Rugby and Bill Beaumont look also as locks. Thus, they need only three more votes to pass the reform.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby ihateblazers » Tue, 18 Apr 2017, 03:27

I think all the t1 nations apart from the Scots, Irish and Italians have publicly backed it. Even the Aussies who were against it last year have seemed to change their minds. It should pass unless there are some real change of hearts.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Tue, 18 Apr 2017, 03:58

ihateblazers wrote:I think all the t1 nations apart from the Scots, Irish and Italians have publicly backed it. Even the Aussies who were against it last year have seemed to change their minds. It should pass unless there are some real change of hearts.


As it should. Clifton's aspersions about racism and xenophobia are misplaced at best and many of his other rants in the article are incoherent and make no sense.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 18 Apr 2017, 05:21

Coloradoan wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:I think all the t1 nations apart from the Scots, Irish and Italians have publicly backed it. Even the Aussies who were against it last year have seemed to change their minds. It should pass unless there are some real change of hearts.


As it should. Clifton's aspersions about racism and xenophobia are misplaced at best and many of his other rants in the article are incoherent and make no sense.


I really didn't know what was going on in that column. He's written a lot of good stuff, but last week he swiped at Mitchell and I was like wtf. He thinks we'll never get out of pool play with the current set of players. It would be difficult, but he would rather have kept Tolkin a guy who kicked his captain off the side and sent him home. Which tells me he wasn't the skipper we'd want on the ship.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Tue, 18 Apr 2017, 05:40

TheStroBro wrote:
Coloradoan wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:I think all the t1 nations apart from the Scots, Irish and Italians have publicly backed it. Even the Aussies who were against it last year have seemed to change their minds. It should pass unless there are some real change of hearts.


As it should. Clifton's aspersions about racism and xenophobia are misplaced at best and many of his other rants in the article are incoherent and make no sense.


I really didn't know what was going on in that column. He's written a lot of good stuff, but last week he swiped at Mitchell and I was like wtf. He thinks we'll never get out of pool play with the current set of players. It would be difficult, but he would rather have kept Tolkin a guy who kicked his captain off the side and sent him home. Which tells me he wasn't the skipper we'd want on the ship.


Clifton and RugbyMag in general take their cues from Bruce McLane and that whole NYAC crew. Not all that surprising since RugbyMag/United World Sports is based in a suburb of NYC (obviously Clifton isn't based there since he coaches Lindenwood-Belleville). That's probably why that swipe at Mitchell happened and it's also why they've written so many articles praising NYAC or NYAC-connected players over the years.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby cardiffrcm » Tue, 18 Apr 2017, 16:29

Reddit is suggesting that the 10th MLR Club is Metropolis. Makes sense really.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby 4N » Tue, 18 Apr 2017, 16:46

Also from reddit, it sounds like there may be trademark issues with the name Major League Rugby. This guy Clinton Courtney is not affiliated with the new MLR, rather the old page that was floating around.

https://trademarks.justia.com/868/15/ma ... 15998.html

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Tue, 18 Apr 2017, 16:51

cardiffrcm wrote:Reddit is suggesting that the 10th MLR Club is Metropolis. Makes sense really.


If the league is hoping to attract all of the best talent in the US, they really need at least one team in California and one team in the Northeast, but especially California. While many will move around, not everyone will. And even as California fills out a plurality if not a majority of Eagle sides, there is still lots of raw talent that flies under the radar in the region as we saw with Langilangi last year and even previously with Manoa.

But at the same time, they also need to be careful about spreading the talent too thin across too many teams.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 18 Apr 2017, 19:43

California is a must, and to be honest you could put three teams there with the size of the Rugby Community, maybe four eventually if you wanted to ball like that.

SF Bay, Sacramento, SD, LA/North OC.

Also...Doug is just the gift that keeps on giving!

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spo ... story.html

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Neptune » Wed, 19 Apr 2017, 10:38

TheStroBro wrote:California is a must, and to be honest you could put three teams there with the size of the Rugby Community, maybe four eventually if you wanted to ball like that.

SF Bay, Sacramento, SD, LA/North OC.

Also...Doug is just the gift that keeps on giving!

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spo ... story.html


Currently, which are the rugby concentration zones in the U.S?

Talents such as Perry Baker and Carlin Isles should be nurtured for sustainable rugby growth in the region.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 19 Apr 2017, 15:03

Neptune wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:California is a must, and to be honest you could put three teams there with the size of the Rugby Community, maybe four eventually if you wanted to ball like that.

SF Bay, Sacramento, SD, LA/North OC.

Also...Doug is just the gift that keeps on giving!

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spo ... story.html


Currently, which are the rugby concentration zones in the U.S?

Talents such as Perry Baker and Carlin Isles should be nurtured for sustainable rugby growth in the region.


The Rugby Concentration zones for regional development as defined by the strategic plan is Northern California, Southern California, Central Texas, Central Colorado (Denver Metro), DC Metro, and Northeast with a sub-development region based in Chicago/Great Lakes.

Perry Baker, Carlin Isles, Spike Davis all came through the Tiger Academy in Ohio which is one of eight designated National Development Academies.

Carlin is probably done, his knee was torn up pretty bad. Perry is on the high side of his prime. But we need to do a better job of recruiting cross-over athletes because we have some of the best in the world. Those opportunities will grow if/when MLR gets off the ground.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby 4N » Wed, 19 Apr 2017, 15:48

Areas of greatest concentration are probably Northern California and Utah. Then you have some others like San Diego, Seattle, Colorado, Hawaii. The growth of youth rugby is pretty scattered, though. Lots of places with expanding youth participation.

Baker is from Florida and Isles is from Ohio, both areas noted for producing American football talent.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Neptune » Thu, 20 Apr 2017, 10:43

TheStroBro wrote:
Neptune wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:California is a must, and to be honest you could put three teams there with the size of the Rugby Community, maybe four eventually if you wanted to ball like that.

SF Bay, Sacramento, SD, LA/North OC.

Also...Doug is just the gift that keeps on giving!

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spo ... story.html


Currently, which are the rugby concentration zones in the U.S?

Talents such as Perry Baker and Carlin Isles should be nurtured for sustainable rugby growth in the region.


The Rugby Concentration zones for regional development as defined by the strategic plan is Northern California, Southern California, Central Texas, Central Colorado (Denver Metro), DC Metro, and Northeast with a sub-development region based in Chicago/Great Lakes.

Perry Baker, Carlin Isles, Spike Davis all came through the Tiger Academy in Ohio which is one of eight designated National Development Academies.

Carlin is probably done, his knee was torn up pretty bad. Perry is on the high side of his prime. But we need to do a better job of recruiting cross-over athletes because we have some of the best in the world. Those opportunities will grow if/when MLR gets off the ground.


Getting cross-over athletes from the NFL like Nate Ebner and from other sports is a temporary measure. The best idea is to grow the game from school to school throughout the 50 states starting with the u-10 kids.
This shouldn't be a problem with the U.S.A especially considering the great amount of financial capacity the U.S has.
In Africa, we work on virtually zero budgets, donated balls, cons, tackle bags plus volunteers and we pull it off.
Shouldn't be hard considering the U.S has good financial backing for almost all sports.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 20 Apr 2017, 11:20

Neptune wrote:Getting cross-over athletes from the NFL like Nate Ebner and from other sports is a temporary measure. The best idea is to grow the game from school to school throughout the 50 states starting with the u-10 kids.
This shouldn't be a problem with the U.S.A especially considering the great amount of financial capacity the U.S has.
In Africa, we work on virtually zero budgets, donated balls, cons, tackle bags plus volunteers and we pull it off.
Shouldn't be hard considering the U.S has good financial backing for almost all sports.


While you are in theory right, in practice more money does not lead to an easier path to grow the game. I reckon most kids you teach rugby in Kenya are really enthusiastic about joining a sport and might not have many different chances to do that.
In the USA or Europe kids, especially in this generation, are little kings and queens. They can chose from every sport they like, video games, and and and. In the place I live, there are at least 15 different sports on offer and these sports are fighting over 150-200 kids per birthyear in the nearest area.
This is probably even tougher in the US with a school-centric-sports-system, but maybe some US ruggers know better.

More money does help sometimes, but I think you can do a lot more with just a little money in a country like Kenya.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Neptune » Thu, 20 Apr 2017, 12:04

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Neptune wrote:Getting cross-over athletes from the NFL like Nate Ebner and from other sports is a temporary measure. The best idea is to grow the game from school to school throughout the 50 states starting with the u-10 kids.
This shouldn't be a problem with the U.S.A especially considering the great amount of financial capacity the U.S has.
In Africa, we work on virtually zero budgets, donated balls, cons, tackle bags plus volunteers and we pull it off.
Shouldn't be hard considering the U.S has good financial backing for almost all sports.


While you are in theory right, in practice more money does not lead to an easier path to grow the game. I reckon most kids you teach rugby in Kenya are really enthusiastic about joining a sport and might not have many different chances to do that.
In the USA or Europe kids, especially in this generation, are little kings and queens. They can chose from every sport they like, video games, and and and. In the place I live, there are at least 15 different sports on offer and these sports are fighting over 150-200 kids per birthyear in the nearest area.
This is probably even tougher in the US with a school-centric-sports-system, but maybe some US ruggers know better.

More money does help sometimes, but I think you can do a lot more with just a little money in a country like Kenya.


Yep, you are right, Kenya's case has particular bearing to Fiji.
Playing bare foot with torn balls, sometimes you actually make a ball from recycled papers, just innovating with the little you have.
Tackle bags can be filled with carbon paper and stitched to make them soft.
Then, the pitch is made from wooden posts. Anyway, i guess if you work with the little you have, it can go a long way.
People play rugby with heart rather than looking at the monetary aspect.
I guess rugby is the fastest growing sport in the country, mostly due to the fact that there are a few sports to choose from, and rugby being popular on the WR 7's series.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 20 Apr 2017, 14:53

Neptune wrote:
Getting cross-over athletes from the NFL like Nate Ebner and from other sports is a temporary measure. The best idea is to grow the game from school to school throughout the 50 states starting with the u-10 kids.
This shouldn't be a problem with the U.S.A especially considering the great amount of financial capacity the U.S has.
In Africa, we work on virtually zero budgets, donated balls, cons, tackle bags plus volunteers and we pull it off.
Shouldn't be hard considering the U.S has good financial backing for almost all sports.


Starting at age grade is very important for sure. But in the states the most successful athletes are multi-sport athletes for most of their youth. The skillsets of being Rugby Players translates extremely well to the Football field.

The best athletes in US play Football and Baseball on the aggregate. Basketball just has a much more limited opportunity and their skill sets don't really lend to an easy move. This is why when everyone talks about a unified season in the states I'm pretty clear that we need to work in concert with football because that's where most of the Rugby like athlete pool is. Most coaches do not have the luxury of keeping youth-athletes in just their sport but know they have only so much of that young athlete's time.

Age grade yes, single sport no.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Thu, 20 Apr 2017, 15:20

Neptune wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
Neptune wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:California is a must, and to be honest you could put three teams there with the size of the Rugby Community, maybe four eventually if you wanted to ball like that.

SF Bay, Sacramento, SD, LA/North OC.

Also...Doug is just the gift that keeps on giving!

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spo ... story.html


Currently, which are the rugby concentration zones in the U.S?

Talents such as Perry Baker and Carlin Isles should be nurtured for sustainable rugby growth in the region.


The Rugby Concentration zones for regional development as defined by the strategic plan is Northern California, Southern California, Central Texas, Central Colorado (Denver Metro), DC Metro, and Northeast with a sub-development region based in Chicago/Great Lakes.

Perry Baker, Carlin Isles, Spike Davis all came through the Tiger Academy in Ohio which is one of eight designated National Development Academies.

Carlin is probably done, his knee was torn up pretty bad. Perry is on the high side of his prime. But we need to do a better job of recruiting cross-over athletes because we have some of the best in the world. Those opportunities will grow if/when MLR gets off the ground.


Getting cross-over athletes from the NFL like Nate Ebner and from other sports is a temporary measure. The best idea is to grow the game from school to school throughout the 50 states starting with the u-10 kids.
This shouldn't be a problem with the U.S.A especially considering the great amount of financial capacity the U.S has.
In Africa, we work on virtually zero budgets, donated balls, cons, tackle bags plus volunteers and we pull it off.
Shouldn't be hard considering the U.S has good financial backing for almost all sports.


Ebner is actually a reverse crossover. Rugby was his sport first and foremost. But yes, youth development has finally started happening in the last decade or so. It takes time for that effort to bare results though.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Thu, 20 Apr 2017, 15:44

TheStroBro wrote:
Neptune wrote:
Getting cross-over athletes from the NFL like Nate Ebner and from other sports is a temporary measure. The best idea is to grow the game from school to school throughout the 50 states starting with the u-10 kids.
This shouldn't be a problem with the U.S.A especially considering the great amount of financial capacity the U.S has.
In Africa, we work on virtually zero budgets, donated balls, cons, tackle bags plus volunteers and we pull it off.
Shouldn't be hard considering the U.S has good financial backing for almost all sports.


Starting at age grade is very important for sure. But in the states the most successful athletes are multi-sport athletes for most of their youth. The skillsets of being Rugby Players translates extremely well to the Football field.

The best athletes in US play Football and Baseball on the aggregate. Basketball just has a much more limited opportunity and their skill sets don't really lend to an easy move. This is why when everyone talks about a unified season in the states I'm pretty clear that we need to work in concert with football because that's where most of the Rugby like athlete pool is. Most coaches do not have the luxury of keeping youth-athletes in just their sport but know they have only so much of that young athlete's time.

Age grade yes, single sport no.


Disagree about basketball. Basketball not only attracts elite athletes on par with or above baseball (definitely above baseball in the northern states), but it also definitely has skills that translate to rugby, probably more than any major sport in this country. Basketball players have great hands/ball handling ability (the drills for solo ball handling are basically the same other than dribbling), are used to manipulating defenses to create space and opportunities for teammates and have to do much more reading of the game and adjusting on the fly than football players do. These things all translate very well to rugby. We've had success with basketball crossovers in the US. Luke Gross is one who is an all time great Eagle. Hayden Smith is another more recently. There's no reason we couldn't and shouldn't go after more basketball crossovers, in both 15s and in 7s, particularly with how important restarts are in 7s these days. It's also worth pointing out that with 340 D1 basketball teams and who knows how many other D2 basketball teams, there are a ton of potential crossovers graduating college every year.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 20 Apr 2017, 16:18

Coloradoan wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
Neptune wrote:
Getting cross-over athletes from the NFL like Nate Ebner and from other sports is a temporary measure. The best idea is to grow the game from school to school throughout the 50 states starting with the u-10 kids.
This shouldn't be a problem with the U.S.A especially considering the great amount of financial capacity the U.S has.
In Africa, we work on virtually zero budgets, donated balls, cons, tackle bags plus volunteers and we pull it off.
Shouldn't be hard considering the U.S has good financial backing for almost all sports.


Starting at age grade is very important for sure. But in the states the most successful athletes are multi-sport athletes for most of their youth. The skillsets of being Rugby Players translates extremely well to the Football field.

The best athletes in US play Football and Baseball on the aggregate. Basketball just has a much more limited opportunity and their skill sets don't really lend to an easy move. This is why when everyone talks about a unified season in the states I'm pretty clear that we need to work in concert with football because that's where most of the Rugby like athlete pool is. Most coaches do not have the luxury of keeping youth-athletes in just their sport but know they have only so much of that young athlete's time.

Age grade yes, single sport no.


Disagree about basketball. Basketball not only attracts elite athletes on par with or above baseball (definitely above baseball in the northern states), but it also definitely has skills that translate to rugby, probably more than any major sport in this country. Basketball players have great hands/ball handling ability (the drills for solo ball handling are basically the same other than dribbling), are used to manipulating defenses to create space and opportunities for teammates and have to do much more reading of the game and adjusting on the fly than football players do. These things all translate very well to rugby. We've had success with basketball crossovers in the US. Luke Gross is one who is an all time great Eagle. Hayden Smith is another more recently. There's no reason we couldn't and shouldn't go after more basketball crossovers, in both 15s and in 7s, particularly with how important restarts are in 7s these days. It's also worth pointing out that with 340 D1 basketball teams and who knows how many other D2 basketball teams, there are a ton of potential crossovers graduating college every year.


I'm not saying we shouldn't, Basketball players are elite athletes. My point is that at the Division 1 collegiate level there's only 15 guys. Whereas Football has 100 on a roster and Baseball 35. It's just different. Basketball crossover...listening to RWBE this morning. Thretton Palamo was on the U16 USA team.

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