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USA Rugby

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby dropkick » Fri, 09 Jun 2017, 18:30

TheStroBro wrote:Preview of the USA side:https://youtu.be/j3HSqk-HdY0

The forward pack looks the most interesting. Not sure why Taufete'e isn't starting. I expected him on the field immediately based on his performance in the premiership. Makes me think Mitchell is resigned to losing to Ireland rather than putting forth everything we got every time. I can understand that he intends to throw the kitchen sink the next three matches.



Good review!

From an Ireland point of view I'm looking forward to seeing how the new caps go. James Ryan is the one to watch. He is a super talent and the first young player since BOD to play for Ireland before he played for Leinster. Porter and Stockdale are also very highly rated here and those 3 are expected to win many caps.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby MLB3BB2 » Fri, 09 Jun 2017, 20:44

Coloradoan wrote:Not a lineup that inspires confidence. Hope I'm wrong.

Call me an optimist, but I'm only concerned with the front row - but the bench should provide good cover. Glad to see MacGinty at 10 but also glad Cima's boot will be available for long-range kicks.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Suiram » Sat, 10 Jun 2017, 17:08

People (primarily directed at StroBro's last comment but more before) need to remember that Mitchell has consistently not started guys that arent in camp the whole first week. I would say that is a key focus of his along with fitness. Every time, there are questions why someone is on the bench or not starting and unless there is a massive gap between the alternatives, he has gone with guys that have a full week training together for the most part.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 10 Jun 2017, 17:41

Suiram wrote:People (primarily directed at StroBro's last comment but more before) need to remember that Mitchell has consistently not started guys that arent in camp the whole first week. I would say that is a key focus of his along with fitness. Every time, there are questions why someone is on the bench or not starting and unless there is a massive gap between the alternatives, he has gone with guys that have a full week training together for the most part.


Peter Malcom and Clever arrived to camp at the same time. Unlike Tolkin, I don't think Clever is being punished by Mitchell. It's clearly an odometer reading. He's talented enough to be on the side and fit enough to play multiple matches. But if We NEED to beat Canada in both matches and also want to beat Georgia. I understand the lineup overall.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby 4N » Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 13:25

Not much to cheer for the Eagles but I thought big Joe T played well at prop when he was on. Would be silly to put a body like that at hooker on this team, they're not Worcester. Someone on Twitter said call up Eric Fry (world class scrummager lol) instead. No, I think they will stick with one of their brightest talents who at 24 is still very young for a front rower. He's actually not much older than Canada's Djustice Sears-Duru, someone who is/was regarded as a big prospect by some but is clearly still learning his trade.

USA desperately needs another big lock to pair with Civetta. I like Brakeley but he lacks a bit in power. I think he's probably best as utility cover on the bench. Would say Greg Peterson but he hasn't been heard from since the RWC. Jensen looked okay, but he could also stand to add some bulk if it doesn't impact his loose play too much. Manoa should play there when fit.

As for scrumhalf, Davies needs to start. Augspurger seems to be a better wing than 9, though he did have some hiccups in both positions vs Ireland. I would also like to see Campbell start at 13 with Matyas moved to Teo's wing.

Martin Iosefo was another positive. Showed top end pace I wasn't sure he had.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 17:00

I've said that Nate plays very well at Wing and could be a liability at 9 based on current talent behind him. However, I thought he had a good match at 9. Eventually he's going to be pushed off the wing I think with the development of Psalm Wooching.

I was very pleased with the play of both John Quill and Tony Lamborn. Front Row shows our definite liabilities. Big Joe is one of the top Hookers in the Premiership, playing him at Loosehead shows a lot of problems currently with our depth. It's pretty clear from yesterday that the front row going forward in this series is 1. Joe Taufete'e 2. James Hilterbrand 3. Paddy Ryan. The person who said bring up Eric Fry was Bryan Ray from ARN in conversation with myself, I agree with that assessment. Big Joe is the best hooker on this squad. But he also happens to be loosehead available and Hilterbrand is solid. Malcolm is young.

What I'd like to see is Ryan and Taufete'e maintain their current weight but significantly increase their lean muscle mass which will definitely allow us to compete at a higher level. They're both high level players, but NH professional sides don't build their packs like SH. But if you saw the Crusaders V. Lions they were much leaner than the Lions.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 17:51

Peterson has been injured quite a bit since the RWC. Maybe slide Tameilau to lock, Brakeley to 6 and Durutalo to 8? Or slide Dolan in there. Longer term I think Mahoni is going to be the answer there. He's still only 20.

Agreed with the rest of 4N's analysis, although I still think Fry could be useful as a bench option. Scrummaging isn't his strength but he's still probably the equal of Tarr in that department, with more to offer around the pitch.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 17:56

Can't say I agree on Augspurger. Davies had a noticeable impact when he came on. Augspurger is much better suited to a utility back role off the bench, when a coach wants to use a 6-2 split.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby cardiffrcm » Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 20:45

Coloradoan wrote:Can't say I agree on Augspurger. Davies had a noticeable impact when he came on. Augspurger is much better suited to a utility back role off the bench, when a coach wants to use a 6-2 split.


The USA need to find a scrum half and at least one more quality prop. Fry's omission, despite his weaknesses, is inexpicable. A new coach may give Val Lee-Lo the chance he deserves. He has the physique and the scrummaging ability to play at a higher level.

Scrum half is more difficult, other than Augspurger and Davies, there are few options. Boyer is one possibility, but otherwise it's only youngsters like Andrande and De Haas.

Taufetee should play hooker, he's an international class 2 and his scrummaging ability there is not to be underestimated. He should become a 50+ cap hooker and a US legend. I presume Purpura will play at loose head during the Canadian matches. Purpura-Taufetee-Ryan would be stringer the Taufetee-Malcolm-Ryan.

Ben Landry is another lock who could become a consistent performer at international level. Strong performances over the next three games could see him earn a contract in Europe.

The US also need to settle on a centre pairing. I presume it is going to be Brache and Campbell, but there has been little consistency in selection since the World Cup.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby cardiffrcm » Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 20:49

Is a replay of the USA Ireland match online anywhere?

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 22:48

Coloradoan wrote:Can't say I agree on Augspurger. Davies had a noticeable impact when he came on. Augspurger is much better suited to a utility back role off the bench, when a coach wants to use a 6-2 split.


I said he had a good match, but Davies is better at 9 and that was very clear when Nate moved further into the back line in the latter part of the second half.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 23:07

Long term Taufete'e is a hooker as there should be enough talent coming through at prop not to force him there unless someone comes on strong as a hooker, like Germishuys. All of Tarr, Maughan, Lee Lo, Telea, Pedersen and Wenglewski are 23 or younger. I have to imagine at least one or two of them will develop into solid international props in the next few years. Add the older MacLellan and Waldren to that too, to a lesser extent.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 23:24

TheStroBro wrote:
Coloradoan wrote:Can't say I agree on Augspurger. Davies had a noticeable impact when he came on. Augspurger is much better suited to a utility back role off the bench, when a coach wants to use a 6-2 split.


I said he had a good match, but Davies is better at 9 and that was very clear when Nate moved further into the back line in the latter part of the second half.


I'm saying he didn't have a good match. What did he do that you thought was good? I didn't see anything that he did particularly well. His biggest strength is running the ball and we didn't see him probing the fringes for weaknesses and to help take a little pressure off the rest of his side. The short in goals made exits tough so it would have been optimal to kick from the base of the ruck, but he either chose not to or doesn't have a good enough boot to do so. Service was...serviceable but not outstanding. Tempo was also a bit slow. Obviously some of this was Ireland's ability to slow the ball down at the ruck, but not all of it as Davies really increased the tempo. At least those were my impressions during the match. I haven't rewatched the game yet, so if you have some things for me to look for on second watch, I'm all ears.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 23:26

We've all seen him play some really bad matches at 9. I don't think this was one of them. I wouldn't have started him there. That's all I'm saying.

ETA: Pat Clifton Chats with David Niu: http://www.rugbytoday.com/7s/qa-super-7 ... -david-niu

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby cardiffrcm » Mon, 12 Jun 2017, 20:59

The U20 line up for the 1st leg against Canada has been selected:-

http://www.thisisamericanrugby.com/2017 ... l?spref=tw

Only surprise is Dion Meikesell's absence. I presume he's injured.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Suiram » Mon, 12 Jun 2017, 21:37

cardiffrcm wrote:The U20 has been selected:-

https://www.usarugby.org/2017/05/aig-mj ... st-canada/

Only surprise is Dion Meikesell's absence. I presume he's injured


Pretty excited about this given the broader pool available. Although not quite the squad I expected. Would be interesting if there were any considerations related to guys coming off 7s Nationals and CRC and resting them. Also curious how much they are planning changes between the two matches.

Mikesell is definitely a surprise. Was he playing well for Lindenwood in 7s? Can think of a couple theories: He has not progressed as much as hoped in terms of becoming a well rounded wing; he is injured / worn out from 7s and is expected to go the distance on the 2nd qualifier; he was not expected to start (because of 7s, competition, whatever) and is too much of a pure wing to make the bench.

Worth revisiting this write up from Alex Goff:

http://www.florugby.com/article/56804-u ... T8HAVXDGpo

Notable that Nault and Jorstad play 8 with Jorstad starting at prop and Nault at 8. Maybe surprising Jorstad is starting at prop over Telea? With Marshall and Torres at lock and a back row of Al-Jiboori, Maafu, and Nault it should be a pretty powerful pack.

In the backs, De Haas and Walsh are unsurprising at 9 & 10. Matthews and Thomas make a very exciting center pairing. Rodriguez makes sense at 15. Wings are slightly surprising albeit maybe safer choices in terms of defensively sound well rounded players.

Worth noting that Perry and Wilson who I believe captained HSAA last year dont even make the starting 23.

Edit: to add, the absence of Perry and Wilson is not surprising (look who they are competing with). Just a highlight of the quality. Second, just saw the USArugby write up. Did not realize Walsh is only 17. Continuing the American tradition of bringing in loosely American flyhalfs to lead us to victory (Hercus, MacGinty, Cima, Magie, Bird, Walsh...plus quite a few between Hercus and Macginty)

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby cardiffrcm » Mon, 12 Jun 2017, 21:54

Suiram wrote:
cardiffrcm wrote:The U20 has been selected:-

https://www.usarugby.org/2017/05/aig-mj ... st-canada/

Only surprise is Dion Meikesell's absence. I presume he's injured


Pretty excited about this given the broader pool available. Although not quite the squad I expected. Would be interesting if there were any considerations related to guys coming off 7s Nationals and CRC and resting them. Also curious how much they are planning changes between the two matches.

Mikesell is definitely a surprise. Was he playing well for Lindenwood in 7s? Can think of a couple theories: He has not progressed as much as hoped in terms of becoming a well rounded wing; he is injured / worn out from 7s and is expected to go the distance on the 2nd qualifier; he was not expected to start (because of 7s, competition, whatever) and is too much of a pure wing to make the bench.

Worth revisiting this write up from Alex Goff:

http://www.florugby.com/article/56804-u ... T8HAVXDGpo

Notable that Nault and Jorstad play 8 with Jorstad starting at prop and Nault at 8. Maybe surprising Jorstad is starting at prop over Telea? With Marshall and Torres at lock and a back row of Al-Jiboori, Maafu, and Nault it should be a pretty powerful pack.

In the backs, De Haas and Walsh are unsurprising at 9 & 10. Matthews and Thomas make a very exciting center pairing. Rodriguez makes sense at 15. Wings are slightly surprising albeit maybe safer choices in terms of defensively sound well rounded players.

Worth noting that Perry and Wilson who I believe captained HSAA last year dont even make the starting 23.


Mikesell was capped by the Eagles in the ARC so I'm assuming his progress has been pretty solid. That Williamson (normally a centre) starts ahead of him does suggest an injury.

It will be interesting to see how Jorstad goes at prop, but Wenglewski and Iscaro are both good scrunmmagers so the set piece should be OK. Both replacement props have played all season at Loose head, but both have had outstanding Freshman years.

Looking forward to see the two centres play and Al-Jiboori is a top, top talent. His ability to carry will be paramount as Maafu is more of an open field runner.

If the half backs function, this should be a very good US team.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby cardiffrcm » Mon, 12 Jun 2017, 21:55

Oh and apparently the match is being streamed on the Rugby Canada Facebook page.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Mon, 12 Jun 2017, 21:55

Mikesell wasn't playing in the CRC 7s from what I saw so I'm thinking he's injured. Rugby Canada is supposed to be streaming this. Hope it's a better stream than they put up for the Georgia match. Disappointing that 3 of the 5 U20-eligible players who have been capped in 7s or 15s aren't playing.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 13 Jun 2017, 00:57

So after watching the CAN V Georgia match. I'm putting the line at US (-3) V. GEO (+3). If anyone knows football lines, that's a push. But I don't think Georgia is going to walk over this team and I wouldn't be surprised if we win by a Try. The Home commentator was homing hardcore. They couldn't really establish what they wanted to with their pack and it was an ugly match of kicking. But talent took over, not sure the Try was in zone or not because they had no TMO.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby 4N » Tue, 13 Jun 2017, 19:12

Roster for USA Islanders posted: http://www.usaislanders.com/team/usa-islanders

Tana Afeaki
Gerson Blaise
Colton Cariaga
Paul Eteaki
Devereaux Ferris
Pago Haini
Langi Haupeakui
Pila Huihui
Olive Kilifi
Tua Laei
Patrick Latu
Val Lee-Lo
Holo Moungaloa
Matai Leuta
Shalom Suniula
Alex Taefu
Maka Tameilau
Veuki Taumoefolau
Jojo Tikoisuva
Sione Tuihalamaka
Tai Tuisamoa
Saia Uhila
Teli Veamatahau
Lole Veimau

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby VictorK » Wed, 14 Jun 2017, 06:41

It's great to see how fast rugby is progressing in the US.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby cardiffrcm » Wed, 14 Jun 2017, 09:45

So the US game plan appeared to be to sit deep in alignment and spin the ball wide as quickly as possible.
Great plan other than if:-

1) Your half backs have slow, loopy passes.
2) Your back three each weigh about 85lbs and have the physicality of a wet paper bag.
3) The strength of your backs is in your ball-carrying centres who are subsequently by-passed.

However, the game was lost up front. The gamble of playing a flanker at tight head back fired. Apart from Al-Jiboori the US had no one to compete with the weight and strength of Beukeboom, Thiel and Keith.

The difference in the performances of the two Fly Halves Kelly and Walsh was marked, although Kelly did have an armchair ride behind that pack.
The positives for the US were:-

1) Al Jiboori, who should have started at 8, and I would be very surprised wasn’t in the Eagles squad for the Autumn European tour.
2) Iscaro, who with Wenglewski was the only front 5 row forward who appeared to have a physique comparable with his opposite number. He put in a big shift, with some great tackles and the scrum appeared to improve when he moved from hooker to tight head.
3) Maafu. Still a bit lightweight, but great hands and athleticism. As he’s not at college, I wouldn’t be surprised if he went full time with the 7’s program.
4) Rodriguez; outstanding running, although his lack of size was highlighted by his defence for the 2nd Canadian try and also exaggerated by being flanked by two similarly small wingers.

Credit to Canada though, they were a big, physical team who deserved their victory. The US will do well to match them in the second game
.
The absence of players from the US team such as Branham, Mahoni , Mikesell, Andrande, Cusano, Taumoefolau , Teles and Fualaau has been a factor (and is unexplained). But this is strong Canadian team which would have taken some beating under any circumstances.

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby 4N » Wed, 14 Jun 2017, 12:39

2) Your back three each weigh about 85lbs and have the physicality of a wet paper bag.


Yeah I don't get the wings (or locks or props) they picked. Size seems to be a problem.

Also if Lorenzo Thomas and Mikesell aren't developing properly that's on their college coaches. Given that the USA U20 coach came from Lindenwood, you gotta wonder...

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Re: USA Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 14 Jun 2017, 15:44

VictorK wrote:It's great to see how fast rugby is progressing in the US.


Progressing? We've been playing this game for 150 years. We won the Olympics back to back 90 years ago. Not progressing at all.

So Scott Lawrence is the Technical Director [read:GM, chief scout], but the last time we had a consistent coaching staff was when he won the JWT and qualified for the JWC. Since then the coaching staff from MJAAs has been inconsistent. The current coach was appointed about two months ago and when I saw the job listing it was as a volunteer and received no direct compensation. The Union couldn't even fund this trip, a donor had to pay for it.

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