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2023 Rugby World Cup Host

2023 Rugby World Cup host

South Africa
16
23%
Ireland
15
21%
Italy
32
45%
France
8
11%
 
Total votes : 71
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby Sables4EVA » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 17:58

I am pretty certain Rugby Africa voted for France. The North Africans once again stabbing the rest of the continent in the back.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 18:14

NaBUru38 wrote:
sk 88 wrote:My new maths on this:

SA (13): NZL(3),AUS(3) Rugby Arfique (2) ARG (3) Rugby Sudamerica (2)

IRE (8): ENG(3), SCO(3), Rugby America North (2)

FRA (18): WAL (3), ITA (3), RE (2), GEO (1), Rom (1), Can (1), USA (1), JPN (2), Oceania (2), Asia (2)

Looks like the T2 nations swung it for France. Great to see the power dynamic in the game change if true

BTW: England announced before the vote they were going with Ireland in the 1st round and France if Ireland were eliminated, it was in our papers today.


Why would Rugby North America vote differently as USA and Canada?

Also, it would be strange that Oceania would vote for France, don't you think?


Because I'm trying to get the maths to work!

Do we think any countries might have split their votes?

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby carbonero » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 18:43

L’Equipe reports that Japan, Georgia, Romania, South America, Africa, Asia and Europe all voted for France: https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites ... gby/851008

I’m glad that Sudamerica Rugby didn’t follow the UAR blindly. It was kind of shocker because their board is full of Argentines. They probably had some sort of vote between the unions. Also, Costa Rica was granted full World Rugby membership at the council.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 19:03

Journalist on twitter responded to my question by saying that he thinks England split their vote 2 to IRFU & 1 to SA, then the 2 went to France.

The French votes from L'Equipe add up to 20(??). According to the BBC Wales voted for South Africa & Scotland for France, apparently England split their vote(???)

Based on that I someone is lying somewhere as it no longer adds up. Best guess:

Ire (8): USA (1), Can (1), RAN (2), ENG (2), + two mystery votes

SA (13): WAL (3), NZL (3), Aus (3), Arg (3), ENG (1)

FRA (18): SCO (3), Italy (3), Japan (2), Georgia (1), Romania (1), Asia (2), Oceania (2), South America (2), Europe (2) and Africa (2) - two as someone is lying ...

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby victorsra » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 20:29

Interesting
Last edited by victorsra on Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 20:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby victorsra » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 20:31

carbonero wrote:
victorsra wrote:Argentina will bid for 2027.

Not true. Pichot said recently that we are already out of it.

Really? I missed that. Source?
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby carbonero » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 20:55

victorsra wrote:
carbonero wrote:
victorsra wrote:Argentina will bid for 2027.

Not true. Pichot said recently that we are already out of it.

Really? I missed that. Source?

It is an interview with a journalism student. He seems very pessimistic about it: https://www.facebook.com/SantiAngel1996 ... 6067958368

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 21:30

Then look for a USA bid for 2027 to gather steam. If Argentina and USA both bid in 2027 I think Argentina would have won.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby vino_93 » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 21:36

Lot of work has to be done in the us in this case... I mean the sport is quite small there for the moment. That's a Big risk tout have small attendences to second rank games...

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby BertSolomon » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 22:13

BigG wrote:Ireland made a mistake not to make a joint bid with Scotland (maybe Wales as well). Small nations have a chance when they act together.


When the first RWC was announced in 1987, it was expected that the tournament hosting would rotate as follows:
1987 - Aus & NZ; 1991 - Eng, Sco, Wal & Ire; 1995 - SA (assuming apartheid had ended, as it did); 1999 - Fra; 2003 - back to Aus & NZ again, unless another country from outside the traditional powers came forward.

This was pretty logical, and meant that the smaller countries - Ire, Wal, Sco, NZ - could get to co-host the RWC by teaming up with a bigger neighbour.

But rugby being full of silly horse-trading, this never happened. France demanded a co-host role in 1991 and again in 1999. NZ messed up its stadium advertising and was stripped of co-hosting 2003. Wales did a deal with other European countries to ensure they co-hosted any future European RWCs after 1999, so they got to host some games in 2007 and 2015. And NZ, which was far too small to be sole host, got the 2011 tournament after bribing countries like Ireland with the promise of more fixtures.

So we've basically ended up with a series of compromises and trade offs, and as a result, only 1987 and 1995 have been satisfactorily hosted IMO. That will change with 2019 and (I hope) 2023.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby vino_93 » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 22:19

Osmanperalta wrote:good for France....now I hope that some of the host cities are bastions of rugby (clermont, toulon, perpignan better than st ettiene, lens)

Games will be spread all around the country.
Perpignan and Toulon have small stadiums, stop that joke. I would have bring Clermont instead of saint Etienne, but saint Etienne has a two time bugger stadium than Clermont...

Games will be in saint Denis (Paris), Lille, Nantes, Lyon, saint Etienne, Bordeaux, Marseille, Toulouse, Nice. All are renovated stadiums during the last football euro.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby Osmanperalta » Wed, 15 Nov 2017, 23:08

vino_93 wrote:
Osmanperalta wrote:good for France....now I hope that some of the host cities are bastions of rugby (clermont, toulon, perpignan better than st ettiene, lens)

Games will be spread all around the country.
Perpignan and Toulon have small stadiums, stop that joke. I would have bring Clermont instead of saint Etienne, but saint Etienne has a two time bugger stadium than Clermont...

Games will be in saint Denis (Paris), Lille, Nantes, Lyon, saint Etienne, Bordeaux, Marseille, Toulouse, Nice. All are renovated stadiums during the last football euro.

why its a joke! of course you need the biggest cities like lille and marseille... but in fact the mayol stadium has been renovated and I read that the final project is to host 22,000 people which is not bad for some group matches and clermont could expand its stadium to 25,000 i have been watching his games for more than 4 years and michelin always looks full..well maybe perpignan dont need a bigger stadium right now, and boy i have no idea that france host the euro last year you really rock my world :shock: :shock:

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby gambass » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 00:13

Osmanperalta wrote:why its a joke! of course you need the biggest cities like lille and marseille... but in fact the mayol stadium has been renovated and I read that the final project is to host 22,000 people which is not bad for some group matches and clermont could expand its stadium to 25,000* i have been watching his games for more than 4 years and michelin always looks full..well maybe perpignan dont need a bigger stadium right now, and boy i have no idea that france host the euro last year you really rock my world :shock: :shock:


Well, at the end of the day; 35,000 or 40,000 are still quite bigger thant 22 or 25,000. Which means more tickets and thus more revenues which was basically the sole argumement of the french bid.

Maybe, one day, we could see a "pyrenean bid" spreading between southern France and northen Spain using some of these 20-25K rugby stadiums. That would be neat.

*It's likely impossible for ASM to expand Marcel Michelin beyond its current capacity (too much of a cost), there is currently a plan to push the municipal stadium (host of the local soccer team) to 30,000 seats though.

Edit: while I'm at it. Iconic Beaujoire stadium (one of my favorite stadium ww) might not held any game as the new FC Nantes private stadium is schedule for 2022.

Edit2: Looking back at things, it seems this race was really Itaian 's one to loose. They very much missed their chance here.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby Neptune » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 03:28

South Africa have been dealt a low blow there. Poor muppets. Complete bullocks by WR.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby AXLstockholm » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 04:43

gambass wrote:
Osmanperalta wrote:why its a joke! of course you need the biggest cities like lille and marseille... but in fact the mayol stadium has been renovated and I read that the final project is to host 22,000 people which is not bad for some group matches and clermont could expand its stadium to 25,000* i have been watching his games for more than 4 years and michelin always looks full..well maybe perpignan dont need a bigger stadium right now, and boy i have no idea that france host the euro last year you really rock my world :shock: :shock:


Well, at the end of the day; 35,000 or 40,000 are still quite bigger thant 22 or 25,000. Which means more tickets and thus more revenues which was basically the sole argumement of the french bid.

Maybe, one day, we could see a "pyrenean bid" spreading between southern France and northen Spain using some of these 20-25K rugby stadiums. That would be neat.

*It's likely impossible for ASM to expand Marcel Michelin beyond its current capacity (too much of a cost), there is currently a plan to push the municipal stadium (host of the local soccer team) to 30,000 seats though.

Edit: while I'm at it. Iconic Beaujoire stadium (one of my favorite stadium ww) might not held any game as the new FC Nantes private stadium is schedule for 2022.

Edit2: Looking back at things, it seems this race was really Itaian 's one to loose. They very much missed their chance here.


Agree. It would be nice to see Barcelona and Bilbao receive some pool matches.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 07:40

Sables4EVA wrote:I am pretty certain Rugby Africa voted for France. The North Africans once again stabbing the rest of the continent in the back.


To be fair, they just happen to be on the same continent but have 3-5 thousand years of history together with Europe and especially to France. Why should North Africans vote for a country they have nothing in common with and which does nothing for them. I mean they have no advantage whatsoever in it being in South Africa, but will gain a lot of momentum if a RWC leads to more kids with North African roots take up rugby in France.
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby Figaro » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 08:06

BertSolomon wrote:
BigG wrote:Ireland made a mistake not to make a joint bid with Scotland (maybe Wales as well). Small nations have a chance when they act together.


When the first RWC was announced in 1987, it was expected that the tournament hosting would rotate as follows:
1987 - Aus & NZ; 1991 - Eng, Sco, Wal & Ire; 1995 - SA (assuming apartheid had ended, as it did); 1999 - Fra; 2003 - back to Aus & NZ again, unless another country from outside the traditional powers came forward.

This was pretty logical, and meant that the smaller countries - Ire, Wal, Sco, NZ - could get to co-host the RWC by teaming up with a bigger neighbour.

But rugby being full of silly horse-trading, this never happened. France demanded a co-host role in 1991 and again in 1999. NZ messed up its stadium advertising and was stripped of co-hosting 2003. Wales did a deal with other European countries to ensure they co-hosted any future European RWCs after 1999, so they got to host some games in 2007 and 2015. And NZ, which was far too small to be sole host, got the 2011 tournament after bribing countries like Ireland with the promise of more fixtures.

So we've basically ended up with a series of compromises and trade offs, and as a result, only 1987 and 1995 have been satisfactorily hosted IMO. That will change with 2019 and (I hope) 2023.


Small countries should team up with each other, not larger countries. Ireland, Scotland and Wales are actually in a much better position for hosting large events than in 1999, e.g. in Wales there are now 3 modern stadiums with 20k + seats wheras back in 1999 there was only one. Scotland and Wales could put in a reasonable joint bid, with 4x 60k+ stadiums, another 50k one and a 30k one (plus another when 30k one when Swansea expand theirs) plus smaller stadiums, redevelopments or temporary expansions.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 08:33

Yess! France was the best decision.

Looks like Georgians will be able to travel to France in 2023. Visa free travel and we will be able to cheer for lelos in higher numbers.

Definitely RSA was worst place to travel. I mean criminal and racism in RSA makes it a place u dont want to take ur family to watch Rugby.

Ireland or Italy would be great. Or Australia. For 2027.

As for now France 2023 is on its way.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 09:32

sk 88 wrote:
ihateblazers wrote:Here are my guesses for the way voting would go down. Just a bit of fun playing on the politics of it all.

World Rugby Council

Six Nations:
Wales 3 votes - Ireland (Celtic bloc)
Scotland 3 votes - Ireland (Celtic bloc)
England 3 votes - France (better relationship with FFR than IRFU?)
Italy 3 votes - France (if Milan is rewarded as a host city)

Rugby Championship:
Australia 3 votes - South Africa (to get South Africa 2027 vote)
Argentina 3 votes - South Africa (to get South Africa 2027 vote)
New Zealand 3 votes
- France (no chance of getting a RWC any time soon, might as well vote for one with most revenue?)
- Ireland (small nation like itself, could give browney points for future?)
- South Africa (stick with SANZAAR alliance)

Regional Councils:
Africa 2 votes South Africa (obvious)
Asia 2 votes South Africa (SANZAAR?)
Europe 2 votes - France (France better for T2/T3 Europe)
North America 2 votes France (USA/Canada influence)
South America 2 votes South Africa (Argentina influence)
Oceania 2 votes South Africa (SANZAAR influence)

T2 Members:
Georgia 1 vote - France
Romania 1 vote - France
Canada 1 vote - France (to get French 2027 vote)
USA 1 vote - France (to get French 2027 vote)
Japan 1 vote - South Africa (wants to be a part of SANZAAR)

Executives
Chairman - ?
Vice Chairman - ?
CEO - ?

17 votes for France
15 votes for South Africa
6 votes for Ireland



You should have put some money on this.


I've never been a betting man and I started to get swayed by the media propoganda to be honest! Seriously, just like in politics the media has gotten it all wrong. I'm pretty sure France was the clear favourite the whole time. The emotion of Ireland and the farcial recommendation of SA really distorted things.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 13:36

vino_93 wrote:
Osmanperalta wrote:good for France....now I hope that some of the host cities are bastions of rugby (clermont, toulon, perpignan better than st ettiene, lens)

Games will be spread all around the country.
Perpignan and Toulon have small stadiums, stop that joke. I would have bring Clermont instead of saint Etienne, but saint Etienne has a two time bugger stadium than Clermont...

Games will be in saint Denis (Paris), Lille, Nantes, Lyon, saint Etienne, Bordeaux, Marseille, Toulouse, Nice. All are renovated stadiums during the last football euro.


Crikey, if Word Rugby thought Saint Ettienne was short of hotel beds god only knows what they'd make of Clermont!

It is a terrific city to visit though and the stadium is fantastic.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby 4N » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 14:40

Apparently Rugby Europe split their votes, 1 for Ireland 1 for South Africa. So this is a big fat loss for them.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 14:43

4N wrote:Apparently Rugby Europe split their votes, 1 for Ireland 1 for South Africa. So this is a big fat loss for them.


Why should Rugby Europe vote for anyone of them? Makes absolutely no sense.
Do you have a source?
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby 4N » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 14:53

Ireland's eight votes were sourced from their friends at the English RFU and in North America and one of Rugby Europe's two. Support elsewhere was not forthcoming.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/ ... 24915.html

Regarding SA I don't see a link posted yet but it will all come out eventually.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 14:55

Morariu has big ties with France. Seems like non sense for Rugby Europe to vote against them.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 16 Nov 2017, 15:33

I saw on planet rugby someone say that Oceania split their vote with one to Ireland

Seems to me that no one really knows and is doing what I was and making it up!

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