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2023 Rugby World Cup Host

2023 Rugby World Cup host

South Africa
13
21%
Ireland
14
23%
Italy
31
50%
France
4
6%
 
Total votes : 62
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 28 Sep 2016, 18:42

Obviously disappointed as I've backed Italy for the whole length of this thread.

Not sure who I want to host now. Inclining towards France as that is a tournament I would be most likely to go to.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby victorsra » Wed, 28 Sep 2016, 18:58

Really sad.

I think Ireland is the strongest one now.
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby fullbackace » Wed, 28 Sep 2016, 19:05

I think this is the time to announce Georgia&Romania 2023!

Budapest /s, Tbilisi, Cluj & Batumi can host a fine world cup.
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby Horsehead » Wed, 28 Sep 2016, 20:34

That sucks. I'm supporting the Irish bid then

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 28 Sep 2016, 22:05

Well that's disappointing. Not sure who to get behind now.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby argie » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 00:57

I am surprised. Italy lost an excellent opportunity.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 07:02

Really disappointed. Funwise the reason is exactly what olivier wrote. Even if it doesn't really make sense imho.

"The Italian Rugby Federation regretfully confirms that it has withdrawn from the Rugby World Cup 2023 host selection process.
The decision was taken by the FIR and the Promoting Committee following consultation with the Italian Government and the Italian Olympic Committee.
“Our candidature has always been strictly connected to the Olympic Games bid for Rome 2024 and, as agreed with the Goverment and the Olympic Committee, we are unable to provide necessary commitments for us to move forward," said FIR President Alfredo Gavazzi said.
“We remain convinced of the strenght of our bid and are well aware of the benefits that hosting the Rugby World Cup would have brought to Italy. We’re conscious to lose a fantastic chance to promote our values and our sport in our country, but we must sadly accept that today we can no longer move forward with our bid."
“I’d like to thank the Olympic Committe President Giovanni Malagò, who has supported our bid right from the start. We know he’s disappointed, as we are, for losing such a great chance. I’d also like to thank the venues and the municipalities who showed great interest in being part of the bid" Gavazzi added."
http://www.federugby.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9867%3Acomunicato-stampa-fir-sulla-rugby-world-cup-2023&catid=252%3Aslide&Itemid=811&lang=it

So what the hell does the Olympic bid have to do with a rugby world cup? One stadium used for the first, many more around the country for the latter.

Would normally support France, but it just wouldn't be fair for them to host another World Cup so close to the last one (2007).
So it is Ireland for me. Sout Africa would be better, but with the politics interfering it is too risky.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 07:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby iul » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 07:36

So, who is left in the race? SA, Ireland and France? I think I'd rather have it in Ireland than in the other two.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby Horsehead » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 07:49

iul wrote:So, who is left in the race? SA, Ireland and France? I think I'd rather have it in Ireland than in the other two.


I agree. Purely because South Africa and France have both hosted a whole tournament before whereas Ireland only a handful of games. So my order of preference would be Ireland, South Africa and then France last (because they have hosted more recently than SA).

That said I have a feeling that out of those 3 France will have the strongest bid and get it again. I'm seriously bummed out that Italy have withdrawn, I think they would have won and hosted a great tournament. I was really hoping from now on that 2 out of 3 world cups would be played in countries that have not hosted it before

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 08:57

I would probably be in favour of France, mostly because of the revenue they could generate. More funding available for T2/T3 investment then.

Edit: The biggest thing about Italy would have been the potential for kickstarting real growth. They've missed a golden opportunity here.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby olivier » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 10:27

Anyone to comment about my recent post ?
I could appreciate some excuses.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby Ser Podrick of Payne » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 11:03

Italian FIR decision appears to be related to the Rome bid to host the 2024 Olympics, which looks set to be withdrawn too today on a final City Council vote, basically on financial grounds.


After discussions with CONI president Giovanni Malago and government officials, Italian rugby federation (FIR) president Alfredo Gavazzi said: "Our candidature has always been strictly connected to the Olympic Games bid for Rome 2024 and, as agreed with the government and the Olympic Committee, we are unable to provide necessary commitments for us to move forward," said Gavazzi.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 11:42

olivier wrote:Anyone to comment about my recent post ?
I could appreciate some excuses.


I actually did. Still it doesn't really make any sense. Do you have closer insights?
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby suofficer » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 12:20

why did the Argentinians not put themselves forward?

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 14:06

They had more common sense than the Italian's and didn't want to jeopordise a 2027 bid would be my guess. I can't see Italy having much of a chance in 2027 now with this.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby paratus » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 14:47

Yep I'm behind the Irish too now, but I think they would have a better chance if they staged one of the pools in Scotland and another in Wales (assuming that there is a 24 team format and 5 pools).

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby olivier » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 14:49

RugbyLiebe wrote:
olivier wrote:Anyone to comment about my recent post ?
I could appreciate some excuses.


I actually did. Still it doesn't really make any sense. Do you have closer insights?


It's not a scoop. France is huge favorite to have it. The other bids are commercial jokes. SA don't really know why they bid. Ireland keep it only in opposition to France for political reasons.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 15:23

I wonder if France might give a few games to Milan, Italy. Might help "convincing" them to vote for them. If they went down that route i'd love to see Barcelona's Nou Camp involved, with the expansion developments you could have the biggest attendance (105,000) for a rugby game in history!

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby CraigChalmers » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 17:55

victorsra wrote:Really sad.

I think Ireland is the strongest one now.


Can't say I agree. We have been looking to book accommodation for the Pro12 Final in Dublin. One game on that weekend that isn't even that big a draw, yet the prices are ridiculous. God only knows how much a hotel in Dublin on a RWC pool weekend would cost… Mind you, at least there are hotels available, so it's already one better than Belfast was last summer; I know loads of Glasgow fans who missed our day in the sun because there was literally nowhere to stay!

The idea that Ireland can stage a successful RWC is quite frankly ludicrous. The only way they will be able to pull it off is by giving away half the tournament to other home nations as soon as they win it (if not before) - and yet people are against France getting it a comparatively large 16 years after last staging games?


I don't really want to see it back in France so soon, but their bid will blow Irelands out the water. Even ignoring the infrastructure (there can be no arguments about France's ability to host) and looking only at the stadiums, they are miles ahead.

France could quite easily put forward 12 venues over 32,000. Ireland can only put forward half that, and only 2 that have that many seats. In fact, considering the investment in French stadiums before Euro 2016, a French RWC could average 55,000! (it's unlikely to be quite that high, as they wouldn't rely so heavily on 2 venues as England did, but then if the FFR build their new stadium and they did use the San Siro as a venue…)

Perfectly obvious which one is better for the IRB's finances.

suofficer wrote:why did the Argentinians not put themselves forward?



Politics. Until yesterday, the 6 Nations vote was split 3 ways - why split the rugby championship vote (fewer votes anyway) 2 ways? better to pull out and support SA this time, with the understanding that SA return the favour in 4/8 years time. Pichot is a very smart man, he knows what Argentina need to do to win the RWC hosting rights.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby victorsra » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 19:22

I see that France hosted it in 2007, so it looks too soon, while South Africa could be the strongest bid, but there are those issues between the Sports Ministry and SARU... and of course Ireland was never the sole host.

However, there is another thing (that looks silly) that could help France. 2023 is the bicentenry of Webb Ellis myth and he died in France. It is just a myth, definitly not reality, but a myth that World Rugby praises.

About Ireland, it would be nice a joint bid with Scotland indeed, but I think it is too late for a change in the bid, isn't it? At least Glasgow, Edimburgh and Aberdeen could be added.
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby jservuk » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 19:38

As I thought, with Rome cash strapped and not willing to fund the Olympics in 2024, and RWC requiring financial guarantees from FIR (£100m?), who probably would have been looking for government funds for this, any bid would have been to go fund it themselves.

This says a lot about the largess of the Olympics, and sadly, the casts doubt on the claim that RWC is a cheap way of hosting a big event and generating income.

IRB/RWC could have helped Italy by reducing/foregoing the required guarantee. But I guess they're only interested in expansion if it means no lessening of the cash intake.

Can Argentina afford the financial guarantees? On the plus side they seem to be favourable voice from government, and it is hoped they will favour 2027 over 2030 - FIFA is tainted as overbloated and expensive like the Olympics.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby victorsra » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 23:33

Recently I read that China is considering a bid for the 2030 FIFA WC, while England might come up with a new bid too. If this happens I fear Argentina/Uruguay bid won't be the favorite for 2030. And with all economic crisis in Argentina there is now a big possibility that Pichot convinces Macri that it is better to focus on the 2027 RWC, as it is much cheper, and give up from 2030.
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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby diego » Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 01:01

I voted for SA but I think Canada or USA could be a nice choice.

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby ihateblazers » Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 04:59

Here are my guesses for the way voting would go down. Just a bit of fun playing on the politics of it all.

World Rugby Council

Six Nations:
Wales 3 votes - Ireland (Celtic bloc)
Scotland 3 votes - Ireland (Celtic bloc)
England 3 votes - France (better relationship with FFR than IRFU?)
Italy 3 votes - France (if Milan is rewarded as a host city)

Rugby Championship:
Australia 3 votes - South Africa (to get South Africa 2027 vote)
Argentina 3 votes - South Africa (to get South Africa 2027 vote)
New Zealand 3 votes
- France (no chance of getting a RWC any time soon, might as well vote for one with most revenue?)
- Ireland (small nation like itself, could give browney points for future?)
- South Africa (stick with SANZAAR alliance)

Regional Councils:
Africa 2 votes South Africa (obvious)
Asia 2 votes South Africa (SANZAAR?)
Europe 2 votes - France (France better for T2/T3 Europe)
North America 2 votes France (USA/Canada influence)
South America 2 votes South Africa (Argentina influence)
Oceania 2 votes South Africa (SANZAAR influence)

T2 Members:
Georgia 1 vote - France
Romania 1 vote - France
Canada 1 vote - France (to get French 2027 vote)
USA 1 vote - France (to get French 2027 vote)
Japan 1 vote - South Africa (wants to be a part of SANZAAR)

Executives
Chairman - ?
Vice Chairman - ?
CEO - ?

17 votes for France
15 votes for South Africa
6 votes for Ireland

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Re: 2023 Rugby World Cup Host

Postby carbonero » Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 06:22

CraigChalmers wrote: Politics. Until yesterday, the 6 Nations vote was split 3 ways - why split the rugby championship vote (fewer votes anyway) 2 ways? better to pull out and support SA this time, with the understanding that SA return the favour in 4/8 years time. Pichot is a very smart man, he knows what Argentina need to do to win the RWC hosting rights.


What if SA wants to bid again in 2027? What if Australia, USA and Canada bid as well? SANZAR might not present a unified front after all.

And Pichot is a double edge sword. If he pushes reform on some delicate issues like player eligibility rules (let’s hope so), he could alienate himself from the home nations. Many of our local blazers absolutely despise him. Now that he sits at the big boy’s table, he might start to garner some enemies in the international game.

victorsra wrote: Recently I read that China is considering a bid for the 2030 FIFA WC, while England might come up with a new bid too. If this happens I fear Argentina/Uruguay bid won't be the favorite for 2030. And with all economic crisis in Argentina there is now a big possibility that Pichot convinces Macri that it is better to focus on the 2027 RWC, as it is much cheper, and give up from 2030.


Favoring rugby ahead of football is political suicide in Argentina, particularly for this government, who is trying to brush off their elitist label. Also, the bidding process for the FIFA World Cup will start in six years; Macri may not even be around for that date.

However, you shouldn’t worry about the joint bid with Uruguay. The AFA is a dumpster fire. It is currently intervened by FIFA after failing to elect a president in December, an election that finished leveled at 38 after only 75 members casted their vote. Moreover, the federation is absolutely broke, having trouble making ends meet (the lower leagues are on strike at the moment). And neither Argentina nor Uruguay have even one stadium up to FIFA standards, so they are clearly behind other rumored hosts like England, China, USA or Australia. The only glimmer of hope comes from Uruguay: the local FA secured CONMEBOL support for Gianni Infantino’s bid, so the FIFA chairman might owe them a favor.

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