Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

A Pro12 Expansion

Posts: 1464
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby RugbyLiebe » Sat, 05 Aug 2017, 20:25

Bolaroid wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:This self-centered British Empire defintion of "multiculturalism" or "internationality" is a problem for the growth of the game. Because it is used as a fig-leave how multicultural or how international the game is.

I think you're being a bit harsh :) , the Italians and South Africans are in the Pro 14 league, along with the Scots, Welsh, Irish & N.Irish so I think multicultural is a fair description of the league even if some of those cultures are closer than others.

On here, we'd all have liked to have seen a tier 2 nation from further afield involved in the competition but since it's a pro sport the money has to be right and clearly it wasn't.


Without a doubt I am quite harsh here.
Maybe just a culture shock. A German would never ever meet with an Austrian and a Swiss guy and claim multiculturalism has arrived in their meeting :D Same for a French and a Wallon or a Basque a Catalan and a Canaria guy.

But I leave it at that. Open for further discussions at a pub and a beer paid by me if someone ever makes it to Munich ;)
Lets hope the Pro14 lives up to their press release.
Apart from the usual problem of t1 just including t1 I actually think I will watch more Pro14 this year.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri, 25 Apr 2014, 14:11
National Flag:
ZimbabweZimbabwe

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Sables4EVA » Sun, 06 Aug 2017, 08:37

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Sables4EVA wrote:Maybe everyone is banking on a global season set up which was discussed a few years ago.


You mean the agreement made in March 2017? http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/blogs/is ... unds-77555


Exactly

Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 17:05

Sounds like BS to me, but it's still an article on Pro∞ expansion to T2/T3 nations...
"World Rugby target Germany and Spain Pro14 expansions"
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-13484553

Posts: 557
Joined: Thu, 28 Jul 2016, 19:33
National Flag:
ScotlandScotland

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 17:19

Armchair Fan wrote:Sounds like BS to me, but it's still an article on Pro∞ expansion to T2/T3 nations...
"World Rugby target Germany and Spain Pro14 expansions"
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-13484553


Wales Online does not have a particularly great reputation, but these are direct quotes from a club official. It would surprise nobody if Germany and Spain were World Rugbys favoured sons of Tier2 rugby in Europe. Plus they are the most obvious options for Pro14 expansion in Europe in terms of long term financial prospects.

I suspect it is pure speculation on behalf of the official though.

Posts: 288
Joined: Wed, 26 Oct 2016, 16:02
National Flag:
RussiaRussia

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby STMKY » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 17:26

And why does no one talk about Russia in the PRO League? Of course, not Enisei or Krasny Yar, but the new Russian franchise in St. Petersburg or Kaliningrad.

Posts: 1814
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 19:00
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Coloradoan » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 17:33

Germany and Spain make much more sense than the US. Super Rugby's biggest problem is related to time zones. Going across many time zones is bad for both player welfare and the fans that are the core viewership of that league. Germany has the financial backing with Wild and it wouldn't surprise me if Spain was able to find some private investment, too, given the off the pitch successes of last year's cup final and perhaps even more importantly the USA-Tonga match.

Posts: 466
Joined: Mon, 12 May 2014, 21:05
National Flag:
IrelandIreland

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby dropkick » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 18:10

STMKY wrote:And why does no one talk about Russia in the PRO League? Of course, not Enisei or Krasny Yar, but the new Russian franchise in St. Petersburg or Kaliningrad.



I'm sure the pro12 would have also spoke with the Russian rugby union about the possibility of a team. The problem with Russia might be frozen pitches.

User avatar
Posts: 1266
Joined: Wed, 22 Jul 2015, 18:20
Location: Moscow
National Flag:
RussiaRussia

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Vova12 » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 18:23

STMKY wrote:And why does no one talk about Russia in the PRO League? Of course, not Enisei or Krasny Yar, but the new Russian franchise in St. Petersburg or Kaliningrad.

Listen, we are realists ... Who will pay for this?
Image

Posts: 1032
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 22:38

Armchair Fan wrote:Sounds like BS to me, but it's still an article on Pro∞ expansion to T2/T3 nations...
"World Rugby target Germany and Spain Pro14 expansions"
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-13484553


I think Spain could look at a partnership with the UAR on a joint project if this ever becomes a reality. Argentina needs more opportunities to compete in professional environments that the UAR accept as a pathway to the national team (beyond just the Jaguares at present) and this would allow Spain to transition more easily toward professionalism.

Posts: 1032
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 22:39

dropkick wrote:
STMKY wrote:And why does no one talk about Russia in the PRO League? Of course, not Enisei or Krasny Yar, but the new Russian franchise in St. Petersburg or Kaliningrad.



I'm sure the pro12 would have also spoken with the Russian rugby union about the possibility of a team. The problem with Russia might be frozen pitches.


That can become overcome but the money side of the issue is what really hampers any Russian interest.

User avatar
Posts: 1266
Joined: Wed, 22 Jul 2015, 18:20
Location: Moscow
National Flag:
RussiaRussia

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Vova12 » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 03:20

Whats the point of creating a franchise with foreigners for games in Pro12?
Russia needs its own league. This is the only correct decision.
Image

Posts: 288
Joined: Wed, 26 Oct 2016, 16:02
National Flag:
RussiaRussia

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby STMKY » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 05:34

Vova12 wrote:
STMKY wrote:And why does no one talk about Russia in the PRO League? Of course, not Enisei or Krasny Yar, but the new Russian franchise in St. Petersburg or Kaliningrad.

Listen, we are realists ... Who will pay for this?

So the options with Germany and Spain are also far from reality. Need an interest. For example, FC Zenit after the creation of the basketball team, this year created another volleyball team. And if they want to create a rugby team? They have enough money. Players? You can take the main players of the Russian national team from Enisei, Krasny Yar, Kuban and VVA, invite several strong foreigners. There will be a strong team. Or the interest will appear at the governor of Kaliningrad, he is a fan of rugby.

Posts: 360
Joined: Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 09:56
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 05:52

With that amount of money you can make a lot in your backyard: invest in junior academies, strengthen even more your league, having a proper staff for national team, hiring a pro killer to get rid of your rugby union boss etc...

Posts: 873
Joined: Thu, 15 Dec 2016, 11:18
National Flag:
KenyaKenya

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Neptune » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 06:10

Finally, the glass ceiling of t1 and t2 is being broken. Pro 12 expanding to Germany and Spain is a fantastic idea. But idea's are nothing without execution. Let's see the two German and Spanish teams getting inducted, then we will surely know we have broken the glass slipper.

Posts: 476
Joined: Sun, 07 Dec 2014, 20:31
National Flag:
WalesWales

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Figaro » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 07:41

Armchair Fan wrote:Sounds like BS to me, but it's still an article on Pro∞ expansion to T2/T3 nations...
"World Rugby target Germany and Spain Pro14 expansions"
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-13484553


I think it's common knowledge that the Pro12 basically invited applications from interested partners anywhere. Needless to say, Spain and Germany would be the most attractive expansion markets in Europe. From the noises being made it seems like the US though are by far the closest to reality at the moment.

Posts: 1464
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 08:41

Figaro wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Sounds like BS to me, but it's still an article on Pro∞ expansion to T2/T3 nations...
"World Rugby target Germany and Spain Pro14 expansions"
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-13484553


I think it's common knowledge that the Pro12 basically invited applications from interested partners anywhere. Needless to say, Spain and Germany would be the most attractive expansion markets in Europe. From the noises being made it seems like the US though are by far the closest to reality at the moment.


What Figaro said.
So the Pro14 guy basically said, that World Rugby is targetting Germany and Spain. Which are by pure chance the biggest and the 5th biggest economy in the EU. And therefore the two biggest economies in the EU without pro-rugby. Everyone not targetting those two countries is simply a fool. And World Rugby has numerously announced that those are targetted. So lets be honest, as much as I would like to, but there is no news in that.

I would also target the Netherlands and Belgium if I was from World Rugby :D Especially the Netherlands with a very good rugby infrastructure already in place and 17 million people living in nearly one-hour-driving distance (if you are not from Groningen or Maastricht) from each other. All they need is a millionaire :D
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 476
Joined: Sun, 07 Dec 2014, 20:31
National Flag:
WalesWales

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Figaro » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 09:25

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Figaro wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Sounds like BS to me, but it's still an article on Pro∞ expansion to T2/T3 nations...
"World Rugby target Germany and Spain Pro14 expansions"
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-13484553


I think it's common knowledge that the Pro12 basically invited applications from interested partners anywhere. Needless to say, Spain and Germany would be the most attractive expansion markets in Europe. From the noises being made it seems like the US though are by far the closest to reality at the moment.


What Figaro said.
So the Pro14 guy basically said, that World Rugby is targetting Germany and Spain. Which are by pure chance the biggest and the 5th biggest economy in the EU. And therefore the two biggest economies in the EU without pro-rugby. Everyone not targetting those two countries is simply a fool. And World Rugby has numerously announced that those are targetted. So lets be honest, as much as I would like to, but there is no news in that.

I would also target the Netherlands and Belgium if I was from World Rugby :D Especially the Netherlands with a very good rugby infrastructure already in place and 17 million people living in nearly one-hour-driving distance (if you are not from Groningen or Maastricht) from each other. All they need is a millionaire :D


Yes, Belgium and the Netherlands would be good places for single franchises.

Posts: 1537
Joined: Sun, 20 Apr 2014, 16:57
Location: Leicester
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 09:36

Particularly Belguim as if you based it in somewhere like Tournai you may well attract large audiences from Lille and northern France generally as well as local Belgians.

Posts: 1464
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 10:22

sk 88 wrote:Particularly Belguim as if you based it in somewhere like Tournai you may well attract large audiences from Lille and northern France generally as well as local Belgians.


I doubt that you will get any cross-border attendance at all. At least I wouldn't bet on it. The only story I can think of is Hansa Rostock. They always had some Swedish fans visiting Rostock's soccer game, but that was more due to extremely cheap beer for Swedish conditions and a nice ferry connection.
Also if Lille had a "large audience", they would (still) have a pro club.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 476
Joined: Sun, 07 Dec 2014, 20:31
National Flag:
WalesWales

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Figaro » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 11:04

Bogdan_DC wrote:With that amount of money you can make a lot in your backyard: invest in junior academies, strengthen even more your league, having a proper staff for national team, hiring a pro killer to get rid of your rugby union boss etc...


This is a good point. The countries to whom a franchise would be most attractive are probably those whose local academies are already good, and for whom a local league isn't viable / more attractive than a single franchise.

Georgia is the obvious one, though the small TV market is your obstacle there.

Posts: 3133
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 12:00

I'm all for Pro 14 teams in Germany, Spain, Russia, wherever really. But we need investors. Surely we can find enough benefactors in each nation to help, can't we?

User avatar
Posts: 1266
Joined: Wed, 22 Jul 2015, 18:20
Location: Moscow
National Flag:
RussiaRussia

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Vova12 » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 16:36

STMKY wrote:So the options with Germany and Spain are also far from reality. Need an interest. For example, FC Zenit after the creation of the basketball team, this year created another volleyball team. And if they want to create a rugby team? They have enough money. Players? You can take the main players of the Russian national team from Enisei, Krasny Yar, Kuban and VVA, invite several strong foreigners. There will be a strong team. Or the interest will appear at the governor of Kaliningrad, he is a fan of rugby.

Yenisei demonstrated that you can defeat clubs from the European top leagues !

What else is needed ?

We need to try to attract money to our League!
And our choice should be in favor of creating rugby schools and strengthening clubs, rather than creating a franchise in Pro12.
Image

User avatar
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 17:34

Neptune wrote:Pro 12 expanding to Germany and Spain is a fantastic idea. But idea's are nothing without execution.

Exactly.

Ospreys managing director Andrew Millward wrote:World Rugby know the territories they want to expand into at the right time would be Spain and Germany

The way the league is constructed gives the flexibility to look at that at the right time.

At the right time = Some day in the future

Posts: 288
Joined: Wed, 26 Oct 2016, 16:02
National Flag:
RussiaRussia

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby STMKY » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 17:47

Vova12 wrote:
STMKY wrote:So the options with Germany and Spain are also far from reality. Need an interest. For example, FC Zenit after the creation of the basketball team, this year created another volleyball team. And if they want to create a rugby team? They have enough money. Players? You can take the main players of the Russian national team from Enisei, Krasny Yar, Kuban and VVA, invite several strong foreigners. There will be a strong team. Or the interest will appear at the governor of Kaliningrad, he is a fan of rugby.

Yenisei demonstrated that you can defeat clubs from the European top leagues !

What else is needed ?

We need to try to attract money to our League!
And our choice should be in favor of creating rugby schools and strengthening clubs, rather than creating a franchise in Pro12.


I agree, we need a strong league. But if there is an opportunity to play in the Celtic League, then it must be used! This is an additional 20 games against top teams.

User avatar
Posts: 1266
Joined: Wed, 22 Jul 2015, 18:20
Location: Moscow
National Flag:
RussiaRussia

Re: A Pro12 Expansion

Postby Vova12 » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 17:52

STMKY wrote:And our choice should be in favor of creating rugby schools and strengthening clubs, rather than creating a franchise in Pro12.



This opportunity is not present! All money is invested in football and hockey, rugby is not included in the 20 popular sports in Russia.
Image

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot] and 7 guests