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World Rankings

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 06 Jan 2020, 12:41

Usually the rankings are updated at London noon on monday, id est half an hour ago. So now we should have the first ranking of 2020 but apparently there are no variations, the last update purposed is the 2 december's one. So I think we may desume there were not penalizations for the several teams* that didn't play a test match during the whole 2019

* according to my search: TUNISIA
MOROCCO
TRINIDAD & TOBAGO
COOK
VENEZUELA
PERU
TAHITI
BAHAMAS
ESWATINI
COSTA RICA
MONACO
GREECE
VANUATU
AMERICAN SAMOA

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Re: World Rankings

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Mon, 06 Jan 2020, 16:40

RANKINGS LAD should be on skiing leave ...
Will be back before start of sacred 6N

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 06 Jan 2020, 17:12

Ok, let's wait their return from the mounts

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 06 Jan 2020, 17:34

It's disappointing that Morocco and Tunisia didn't play last year. I believe Algeria didn't play either, but not on the list, probably because they're not a full member yet.
The eastern and southern African countries played each other in their Victoria Cup. West African teams played a series. It's a shame the north African three didn't play their Tri series.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 20 Jan 2020, 22:27

In the women's ranking they have penalized 18 nations with a 6 points curtailment each. The "fault" could have been to have not played a test match in both the last two seasons (2018 and 2019).

In the first men's ranking of 2020 we will see if the same decision will involve the men's nations; even if I don't remember which nations between those of the first post of this page didn't play a test also in 2018

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 20 Jan 2020, 23:12

Eight nations are under the menace of a penalization, if those two-years-without-tests criteria will be applied

60 VENEZUELA (last played 2017)
82 TAHITI (2017 but cheating, in 2015 the previous test match)
84 BAHAMAS (2017)
91 SWAZILAND (2017)
101 MONACO (2009)
102 GREECE (2014)
104 VANUATU (2011)
105 AMERICAN SAMOA (2015)

Some of these nations have been already affected by at least one 6-points penalization, some years ago

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 03 Feb 2020, 12:17

The nations in the list above (plus Cameroon, that in 2019 played a test match probably not recognized by World Rugby) have been penalized by 6 points in the first ranking appeared on 2020.
I still think that it's not the best mechanism, it's too penalizing. American Samoa will never come up from those 13.53 points

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Re: World Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 04 Feb 2020, 08:32

Canalina wrote:The nations in the list above (plus Cameroon, that in 2019 played a test match probably not recognized by World Rugby) have been penalized by 6 points in the first ranking appeared on 2020.
I still think that it's not the best mechanism, it's too penalizing. American Samoa will never come up from those 13.53 points


On the other hand, if they don't play a single match within two years (or more than 4 years in their case), maybe they shouldn't be in a ranking at all. If American Samoa would play and beat the Solomon Islands every year once, they would have regained their 6 points within 3 years..
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Raven » Tue, 04 Feb 2020, 09:35

Canalina wrote:Eight nations are under the menace of a penalization, if those two-years-without-tests criteria will be applied

60 VENEZUELA (last played 2017)
82 TAHITI (2017 but cheating, in 2015 the previous test match)
84 BAHAMAS (2017)
91 SWAZILAND (2017)
101 MONACO (2009)
102 GREECE (2014)
104 VANUATU (2011)
105 AMERICAN SAMOA (2015)

Some of these nations have been already affected by at least one 6-points penalization, some years ago


Shame for Venezuela who had a roster ready last year (or was it 2018?) to participate of one of the various South American tournaments and had to cancel last minute as they weren´t granted traveling visas or similar.

One could think that Monaco could easily organize a game with any small European nation, but since dropping out in 2009 they have shown no interest in re-emergence, and pretty much focused on Sevens now. And Greece seems to have turned to RL but now in this same forum we read about some spark in Union again.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Tue, 04 Feb 2020, 12:51

Yes, the Venezuela penalization seemed at least in part unfair to me too, but I don't know/remember the exact details of what happened: maybe the venezuelan federation was in fault for that missed visa assignment.
Anyway I keep thinking World Rugby have to think to a better mechanism, because those little Oceania nations will (probably) keep to play just sporadically and it's meaningless to penalize them so heavy every some year. The Oceania Cup is just once every two years: you miss an edition because of some problem (no enough funds, no enough available players) and you find yourself with six points less in the ranking. Considering that those nations probably don't care a lot about penalizations ("oh, we were 102th in the ranking and now we are 104th, we really must organize a test match this year!"), some of them risk to go below zero points in a decade or so

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 04 Feb 2020, 13:30

It's probably low on their list of priorities. How does world rankings affect teams nowhere near qualifying for the World Cup?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 02 Mar 2020, 12:32

Switzerland have moved into the World Rankings top 30 after beating Germany. Germany have lost 7 of their last 8 games since playing in the repechage tournament in November 2018.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 03 Mar 2020, 00:55

Weren't Germany ranked as high as 22 or 23 18 months ago?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby myth » Tue, 03 Mar 2020, 10:41

thatrugbyguy wrote:Weren't Germany ranked as high as 22 or 23 18 months ago?
No, that was mid february 2017, 36.5 month ago.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Wed, 01 Apr 2020, 14:30

Best ranking ever reached by the nations able to enter at least once in the Top30, from an italian website

www.onrugby.it/2020/04/01/qual-e-il-mig ... i-vertice/

Posizione 1: Inghilterra, Nuova Zelanda, Sudafrica, Galles, Irlanda
Posizione 2: Francia, Australia
Posizione 3: Argentina
Posizione 5: Scozia
Posizione 7: Giappone, Samoa
Posizione 8: Italia, Fiji
Posizione 9: Tonga
Posizione 11: Canada, Georgia
Posizione 12: USA
Posizione 13: Romania
Posizione 14: Uruguay
Posizione 16: Spagna, Portogallo, Russia
Posizione 18: Namibia
Posizione 19: Marocco
Posizione 21: Hong Kong, Corea del Sud
Posizione 22: Germania, Belgio, Kenya
Posizione 23: Cile, Paesi Bassi
Posizione 24: Ucraina, Brasile
Posizione 25: Zimbabwe, Moldova, Kazakhstan
Posizione 26: Polonia
Posizione 27: Repubblica Ceca
Posizione 28: Svizzera
Posizione 29: Tunisia, Paraguay

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Re: World Rankings

Postby suofficer » Wed, 01 Apr 2020, 14:49

Portugal were 13th in 2005 I believe.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Wed, 01 Apr 2020, 14:54

If you want to say it to them, the article is currently the top one in their facebook page. It's the main italian rugby blog

https://www.facebook.com/Onrugbyit/

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 03 Apr 2020, 20:52

Namibia and above is 23 teams. Not enough for a 24 team World Cup.
Who will be the 24th team?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Silver Fox » Sat, 04 Apr 2020, 09:21

??
- Currently Namibia is ranked 24th.
- Whoever qualifies

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Re: World Rankings

Postby victorsra » Sat, 04 Apr 2020, 16:51

There are 2 teams that are not behind the bottom teams of the last RWC: Spain and Romania. And Portugal is suggesting this as well. This means there are already 22-23 RWC-level teams. Brazil has beaten Portugal last year and did close matches against Romania and Spain, but we need to wait more to see if this development is sustainable. Hong Kong too is showing power now with a professional squad, but like Brazil, time is needed. And don't forget Chile improving with Selknam.

The decision of an expansion would happen 6-7 years BEFORE the expanded RWC. This means 6-7 years for emerging teams to find more sponsors/investments, improve high performance and club rugby systems and reach the proper level. There's no need to wait for 24 RWC-level teams to expand. The discussion "do we have 24 RWC-level teams?" IMO is misleading.
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Re: World Rankings

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 04 Apr 2020, 18:32

victorsra wrote:There are 2 teams that are not behind the bottom teams of the last RWC: Spain and Romania. And Portugal is suggesting this as well. This means there are already 22-23 RWC-level teams. Brazil has beaten Portugal last year and did close matches against Romania and Spain, but we need to wait more to see if this development is sustainable. Hong Kong too is showing power now with a professional squad, but like Brazil, time is needed. And don't forget Chile improving with Selknam.

The decision of an expansion would happen 6-7 years BEFORE the expanded RWC. This means 6-7 years for emerging teams to find more sponsors/investments, improve high performance and club rugby systems and reach the proper level. There's no need to wait for 24 RWC-level teams to expand. The discussion "do we have 24 RWC-level teams?" IMO is misleading.


I agree. It will be one of Brazil, Chile and Hong Kong. They now all have a professional team. Or it could be Algeria, made up of French professionals.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby victorsra » Sat, 04 Apr 2020, 20:19

Kenya has potential, we all know that. But they need a solid project behind its 15s.

My podcast intervied Tomaz Morais, the Portuguese coach that lead Portugal to the 2004 European title and the 2007 RWC. He also transformed Portugal in a strong sevens team. One of the things he insisted is how he used sevens to also transform and develop Portuguese 15s. Kenya need a "Morais" kind of coaching revolution - and a professional franchise, because 2020 is not 2004... But the human resources to be a RWC team their rugby alread has.
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Re: World Rankings

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 09 Apr 2020, 03:03

victorsra wrote:Kenya has potential, we all know that. But they need a solid project behind its 15s.

My podcast intervied Tomaz Morais, the Portuguese coach that lead Portugal to the 2004 European title and the 2007 RWC. He also transformed Portugal in a strong sevens team. One of the things he insisted is how he used sevens to also transform and develop Portuguese 15s. Kenya need a "Morais" kind of coaching revolution - and a professional franchise, because 2020 is not 2004... But the human resources to be a RWC team their rugby alread has.


I've been thinking about this. Kenya, Sri Lanka, Georgia and Moscow are all connected with flights to Dubai. Rugby in Dubai is popular and growing. I believe the standard is quite high and there could be a market for a professional team. I think there could be potential to have a professional regional league like GRR, maybe with a split season, playing games in Dubai in the winter, and in Russia in the summer.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby victorsra » Thu, 09 Apr 2020, 14:52

Honestly Kenya only needs an investor to play the Currie Cup... it is enough. And a better high performance system for 15s. I don't know what they already have, but basically a high performance academy for those players with a better coaching staff with experience in growing up T2s. They already have the players.
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