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World Rankings

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Suiram » Wed, 25 Nov 2015, 11:57

To be fair, Canada's poor form all summer is what really hurt them. Less so the losses at RWC although of course that didn't help

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Wed, 25 Nov 2015, 16:07

Canada actually beat Georgia in a RWC warm-up, right? I don't think Russia would have beaten them.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 25 Nov 2015, 16:57

Yes, but Canada lost to Romania and Russia DID beat them this year. In like for like games they are both P2 W1 L1.

I'd be interested to see a comparison of the two Georgia sides in those two games as I wonder if he ENC side was stronger than the experimental one in Esher?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Buffalo » Wed, 25 Nov 2015, 18:16

Canada had a crap year with way too many close loses and we deserved to fall down the rankings as a result. But I would bet everything I have that Canada would beat the Russians home, away or neutral assuming Russia doesn't try to mess with our visas like they did with Romania.

Here's the rosters if you want to compare them but I'm too lazy/don't care enough.

Georgia vs Russia(33-0): http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/upload/file/1 ... E%20RU.PDF

Georgia vs Canada(15-16):
FB 15 Beka Tsiklauri
RW 14 Giorgi Pruidze
OC 13 Merab Sharikadze Substituted off 46'
IC 12 Tamaz Mchedlidze
LW 11 Giorgi Pruidze
FH 10 Lasha Malaghuradze Substituted off 74'
SH 9 Giorgi Begadze Substituted off 57'
N8 8 Lasha Lomidze Substituted off 60'
OF 7 Mamuka Gorgodze (c)
BF 6 Giorgi Tkhilaishvili
RL 5 Levan Datunashvili Substituted off 60'
LL 4 Giorgi Nemsadze
TP 3 Levan Chilachava Substituted off 69'
HK 2 Shalva Mamukashvili Substituted off 52'
LP 1 Kakha Asieshvili Substituted off 57'
Replacements:
HK 16 Jaba Bregvadze Substituted in 52'
PR 17 Mikheil Nariashvili Substituted in 57'
PR 18 Davit Zirakashvili Substituted in 69'
LK 19 Konstantin Mikautadze Substituted in 60'
LK 20 Giorgi Chkhaidze Substituted in 60'
SH 21 Vazha Khutsishvili Substituted in 57'
FH 22 Lasha Khmaladze Substituted in 74'
WG 23 Davit Kacharava Substituted in 46'

Romania vs Russia(13-16): http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/upload/file/1 ... 0sheet.PDF

Romania vs Canada(17-15):
FB 15 Cătălin Fercu Temporarily suspended from 20' to 30' 20' to 30'
RW 14 Mădălin Lemnaru
OC 13 Paula Kinikinilau
IC 12 Florin Vlaicu
LW 11 Ionuț Botezatu
FH 10 Michael Wiringi Substituted off 52'
SH 9 Florin Surugiu Substituted off 23'
N8 8 Mihai Macovei (c)
OF 7 Viorel Lucaci Substituted off 77'
BF 6 Valentin Ursache
RL 5 Johannes van Heerden
LL 4 Valentin Popîrlan
TP 3 Ion Paulică Substituted off 46'
HK 2 Otar Turashvili Substituted off 66'
LP 1 Mihai Lazăr Substituted off 75'
Replacements:
HK 16 Andrei Rădoi Substituted in 66'
PR 17 Andrei Ursache Substituted in 46'
PR 18 Alexandru Țăruș Substituted in 75'
N8 19 Daniel Carpo Substituted in 77'
FL 20 Stelian Burcea
SH 21 Valentin Calafeteanu Substituted in 23'
WG 22 Adrian Apostol
CE 23 Csaba Gál Substituted in 52'

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Re: World Rankings

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Mon, 30 Nov 2015, 11:17

Buffalo wrote:Canada had a crap year with way too many close loses and we deserved to fall down the rankings as a result. But I would bet everything I have that Canada would beat the Russians home, away or neutral assuming Russia doesn't try to mess with our visas like they did with Romania.

Here's the rosters if you want to compare them but I'm too lazy/don't care enough.

Georgia vs Russia(33-0): http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/upload/file/1 ... E%20RU.PDF

Georgia vs Canada(15-16):
FB 15 Beka Tsiklauri
RW 14 Giorgi Pruidze
OC 13 Merab Sharikadze Substituted off 46'
IC 12 Tamaz Mchedlidze
LW 11 Giorgi Pruidze
FH 10 Lasha Malaghuradze Substituted off 74'
SH 9 Giorgi Begadze Substituted off 57'
N8 8 Lasha Lomidze Substituted off 60'
OF 7 Mamuka Gorgodze (c)
BF 6 Giorgi Tkhilaishvili
RL 5 Levan Datunashvili Substituted off 60'
LL 4 Giorgi Nemsadze
TP 3 Levan Chilachava Substituted off 69'
HK 2 Shalva Mamukashvili Substituted off 52'
LP 1 Kakha Asieshvili Substituted off 57'
Replacements:
HK 16 Jaba Bregvadze Substituted in 52'
PR 17 Mikheil Nariashvili Substituted in 57'
PR 18 Davit Zirakashvili Substituted in 69'
LK 19 Konstantin Mikautadze Substituted in 60'
LK 20 Giorgi Chkhaidze Substituted in 60'
SH 21 Vazha Khutsishvili Substituted in 57'
FH 22 Lasha Khmaladze Substituted in 74'
WG 23 Davit Kacharava Substituted in 46'

Romania vs Russia(13-16): http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/upload/file/1 ... 0sheet.PDF

Romania vs Canada(17-15):
FB 15 Cătălin Fercu Temporarily suspended from 20' to 30' 20' to 30'
RW 14 Mădălin Lemnaru
OC 13 Paula Kinikinilau
IC 12 Florin Vlaicu
LW 11 Ionuț Botezatu
FH 10 Michael Wiringi Substituted off 52'
SH 9 Florin Surugiu Substituted off 23'
N8 8 Mihai Macovei (c)
OF 7 Viorel Lucaci Substituted off 77'
BF 6 Valentin Ursache
RL 5 Johannes van Heerden
LL 4 Valentin Popîrlan
TP 3 Ion Paulică Substituted off 46'
HK 2 Otar Turashvili Substituted off 66'
LP 1 Mihai Lazăr Substituted off 75'
Replacements:
HK 16 Andrei Rădoi Substituted in 66'
PR 17 Andrei Ursache Substituted in 46'
PR 18 Alexandru Țăruș Substituted in 75'
N8 19 Daniel Carpo Substituted in 77'
FL 20 Stelian Burcea
SH 21 Valentin Calafeteanu Substituted in 23'
WG 22 Adrian Apostol
CE 23 Csaba Gál Substituted in 52'


i dont get it, what is a point?
you wanted to say that Georgia had best team? yeas it was ALMOST best side from Georgia (4 injuries), but it was very close to optimal squad. Georgia lost all 3 warm up matches, against Canada (15-16), Newcastle Falcons LOL (7-27) and Japan (10-13).
So what you want to say by posting squads?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 30 Nov 2015, 12:32

It was in response to me, I was wondering whether the Georgia squad that played Canada was weaker than the one that played Russia.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Mon, 30 Nov 2015, 13:09

I believe I may have had something to do with this by pointing out Canada had beaten Georgia this year, whereas Russia got thumped by them, and therefore Russia's position in the rankings above Canada was yet another example of the rankings' flawed system.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Mon, 30 Nov 2015, 15:28

in warm up matches Georgia had almost best squads changing from game to game, experimenting and preparing for success in RWC 2015.
even Newcastle Falcons beat Lelos in warm up.
Russia has good team nobody must doubt that. It is just about rivalry between Georgia and Russia that makes such wins over Bears.
Canada has few magnificent backs but their pack is simply weak.

I think Canada must play more pragmatic rugby and create game plan, they look very chaotic BUT some fast and Talanted backs do their job very well.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Wed, 09 Dec 2015, 07:57

A news about world rankings and some other minor news from the various spots of the world

Rwanda will become World Rugby member just starting from january. This must explain why they are still not in the rankings. Maybe the fact was already known but I just wasn't aware of it http://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/artic ... 30/194861/

On january 9th, friendly match Bahamas v Usa South. If we consider it a test match, it will be probably the first one of the new year http://www.usarugbysouthpanthers.com/2016-bahamas.html

The presidente of Greece's federation, Evangelos Stamos, has died in hospital https://www.facebook.com/HELLENIC-RUGBY ... 277315985/

A post on facebook suggests that there are some little, tenuous sparkles of new life under the ash of armenian rugby. The fact that the post has written in english suggests anyway that those trying to re-bring rugby in Armenia are again expats https://www.facebook.com/rugbyarmenia

The long-awaited Miss Lesotho Rugby event will be hosted in Maseru on december 27th https://www.facebook.com/lesothorugby
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Re: World Rankings

Postby paratus » Wed, 09 Dec 2015, 09:13

Canalina wrote:
The long-awaited Miss Lesotho Rugby event will be hosted in Maseru on december 27th https://www.facebook.com/lesothorugby


Image

I vote for the one 2nd right :D

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Wed, 09 Dec 2015, 11:30

:D :D

The third from right remembers a young version of Carla from tv series "Scrubs" :)
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Re: World Rankings

Postby NedRugby » Thu, 10 Dec 2015, 16:44

paratus wrote:
Canalina wrote:
I vote for the one 2nd right :D


I think you'll find that one is a man. The fact that his hood is covering his bald head should not fool you.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby paratus » Thu, 10 Dec 2015, 17:19

No I think she'd just been taking part in Movember

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Tue, 15 Dec 2015, 12:26

World ranking should be definitive for this year, I can see no further matches awarding points before the end of december.
These are the movements since the first monday of 2015 (- means positions conquered, + means positions lost)

1 New Zealand =
2 Australia -3
3 South Africa +1
4 Wales -2
5 Argentina -4
6 Ireland +3
7 France =
8 England +4
9 Scotland +1
10 Japan -1
11 Fiji -1
12 Italy -2
13 Tonga =
14 Georgia -1
15 Samoa +5
16 USA =
17 Romania =
18 Russia -1
19 Canada +1
20 Uruguay =
21 Spain =
22 Namibia -1
23 Hong Kong -4
24 Chile -5
25 Korea +1
26 Germany +1
27 Portugal +5
28 Kenya -3
29 Belgium -1
30 Ukraine -2
31 Zimbabwe +5
32 Moldova +4
33 Netherlands =
34 Poland =
35 Switzerland -9
36 Czech Republic =
37 Paraguay -1
38 Sri Lanka -10
39 Tunisia +2
40 Lithuania -3
41 Madagascar -1
42 Brazil +7
43 Kazakhstan +4
44 Trinidad & Tobago -8
45 Cook Islands =
46 Croatia -2
47 Colombia -2
48 Uganda -7
49 Malta +9
50 Senegal +9
51 Cote D'Ivoire +5
52 Philippines +1
53 Guyana =
54 Sweden +4
55 Mexico -9
56 Malaysia -4
57 Israel =
58 Singapore +2
59 Andorra -7
60 Cayman +6
61 Latvia +3
62 Luxembourg -10
63 Botswana -5
64 Slovenia -6
65 Taiwan +6
66 Bermuda +4
67 Venezuela +6
68 China +5
69 Peru -2
70 Guam -10
71 Hungary +4
72 Thailand +7
73 Barbados =
74 India +5
75 Nigeria +1
76 Jamaica -1
77 St Vincent&the Grenadines -1
78 Pakistan -1
79 Bosnia & Herzegovina -3
80 Zambia -1
81 Serbia -3
82 Austria +7
83 United Arab Emirates -8
84 Bahamas -2
85 Denmark +9
86 Norway -3
87 Uzbekistan -1
88 Mauritius +5
89 Swaziland +2
90 Bulgaria +5
91 Indonesia =
92 Greece -1
93 Finland +3
94 Morocco =
95 Papua New Guinea =
96 Niue Island =
97 Tahiti -2
98 Cameroon =
99 Monaco -1
100 Solomon Islands +3
101 Vanuatu =
102 American Samoa =
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Re: World Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 15 Dec 2015, 12:54

Canalina wrote:38 Sri Lanka -10
62 Luxembourg -10
70 Guam -10


So here are the biggest climbers this year. Nice effort Canalina, although I think -10 for losing places and +10 for gaining momentum would be a better choice.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 15 Dec 2015, 12:59

So the top 21 are exactly the same as in january.

Same goes for the top22-34. There need to be more games between Asia/Africa and Europe tier3 teams to see where they really stand.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby YamahaKiwi » Wed, 16 Dec 2015, 08:25

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Canalina wrote:38 Sri Lanka -10
62 Luxembourg -10
70 Guam -10


So here are the biggest climbers this year. Nice effort Canalina, although I think -10 for losing places and +10 for gaining momentum would be a better choice.


Yeah had me really confused as I didn't remember ARG having been in 2nd place at the start of this year!

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Wed, 16 Dec 2015, 09:11

Yes, I know, every year it's the same dilemma. Using '+' for the positions conquered is confusing in a certain way, using it for the positions lost is confusing in an other way. I use it one year in a way and the following year in the other way, to add more confusion…
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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Sun, 03 Jan 2016, 14:22

Tomorrow ranking should be interesting for two reasons
- we'll see if it involves for the first time Rwanda, as nation #103
- we'll see if the eight nations not playing in 2015 have had the points halved
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Re: World Rankings

Postby paratus » Mon, 04 Jan 2016, 07:01

Canalina wrote:Tomorrow ranking should be interesting for two reasons
- we'll see if it involves for the first time Rwanda, as nation #103
- we'll see if the eight nations not playing in 2015 have had the points halved


Well it seems they've already begun something here - I just had a look and some of the points have been restored to the 8 teams that had their rankings halved. What they seemed to have done is "fined" those teams 6 points if they hadn't played in that year, which seems less draconian than halving their ranking points. However I still think this is harsh especially for the Oceania conference where matches are much more difficult to stage due to travel and cost implications. I think these countries are being penalised for being impoverished countries rather than being negligent or incompetent for not having managed to play a game in a given year. I can't see why these teams can't just be considered "dormant" and therefore drop to the bottom of the table yet retain their ranking points. Does the W in WR stand for "wanker's"?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 04 Jan 2016, 13:42

I hadn't noticed that :geek: . The decision of restoring the points (before cutting six of them) is fair to me too: the previous punishment was too hard. It was a retrospective decision: they have cancelled the traces of that halving from all the weekly rankings. I don't like this too much: a document is a document and you can not change it after some months.
Apparently the 6-points penalization will not be applied this time: all the teams maintained their points in the new year even if I remember that eight nations (don't remember which) have never played in 2015.
No changes also for Rwanda: the little nation still doesn't appear in the rankings.
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Re: World Rankings

Postby fridge46 » Mon, 04 Jan 2016, 21:17

Halving a nations rating or reducing it is stupid because if you think about it, the teams that are affect by this are the teams that play said nations.

The world rankings arent used for anything except to seed nations for the World Cup (oh, and to determine who got to play home in the repechage) - none of which will be hit with a points penalty. So being lower down the rankings for a penalised team doesnt really affect them!

As for the nations that play them, it does affect them. Because the penalised nations have a lower rating, winning nations will gain less points (if any)! So it is them that are punished!

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Re: World Rankings

Postby paratus » Tue, 05 Jan 2016, 06:38

Quite! and a point I made before - stupid. If the teams that don't participate are penalised then those points should be exchanged with the teams that they should have played in that year's tournament as if they had defaulted. I still think it's better that those teams remain with the same ranking but become "dormant".

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Tue, 05 Jan 2016, 07:45

Not completely agree with Fridge. If a federation doesn't play test matches, you have to spur them somehow: you can't fine with money little poor federations so the only (?) way to prod them is the ranking, even if I agree that no one federation really cares to be 89th instead that 84th. Renouncing to play is like losing, if not worse; so it's partially fair and logic that they are fined of six points like they had lost two or three matches.
"Because the penalised nations have a lower rating, winning nations will gain less points (if any)! So it is them that are punished!", says Fridge. But this would be the same if those penalized nations would have played and lost; and giving up is like to lose. So I think this point doesn't work.
Paratus is correct: those six points are vanished, they are not earned by any other nation. But I can't see how to avoid that. The mark of "dormant" is not a real "punishment", if you keep your points when you "awake".
The world rugby decision may work to me, I just would have decided a lighter penalization: three or four points, instead of six.
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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 01 Feb 2016, 23:03

Men ranking + women ranking, the nations with more than 100 points

1 New Zealand 188.18
2 Australia 169.36
3 France 166.95
4 England 166.48
5 Ireland 164.78
6 Wales 157.49
7 South Africa 156.22
8 Usa 149.89
9 Italy 149.71
10 Canada 144.77
11 Scotland 143.66
12 Samoa 139.10
13 Spain 138.56
14 Japan 137.88
15 Russia 121.21
16 Fiji 120.91
17 Portugal 120.34
18 Netherlands 115.43
19 Germany 114.36
20 Tonga 111.65
21 Romania 111.54
22 Kazakhstan 110.39
23 Belgium 110.18
24 Hong Kong 108.44
25 Sweden 103.75
26 Kenya 100.24
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