Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

World Rankings

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Wendigo7 » Sun, 01 Mar 2015, 09:45

Rowan wrote:No, it's called constructive criticism, because I also pointed out how they might be able to improve in this respect. I certainly am in a position to analyse the press, as I was once involved in the industry. I think it's unhealthy to ignore such a problem, and additionally futile to take a shoot-the-messenger approach toward those who do address the issue.

No, absolutely.

My only point is your very one sided in your argument, albeit you will give a western view, at least as you support Turkey?

It's just I've never seen you criticise the SH teams. I'm not saying the NH teams are saints, they definitely are not, but let's not muckabout and just say because they are NZ, SA or Aus, they are somehow exempt of criticism and that history shows x, y or z.

That's clearly not a very good line to take.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 01 Mar 2015, 13:12

NedRugby wrote:
GeoRugby wrote:
beber wrote:If Georgia win in Spain and Italy lose in Scotland, Georgia will be above Italy in World Rankings


Yes, and something tells me that in 6N they also know it. Wouldn't be surprised if Italy beats Scotland. Honestly I don`t care about Italy result. I just want Georgia to win in Spain, bonus or no bonus.


Scary. Im sure the ref didn't read your post though.


To be fair it was a stonewall penalty try, I don't know if you've seen the match but it could have come a couple of minutes earlier.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby dwpeate » Sun, 01 Mar 2015, 13:19

sk 88 wrote:
NedRugby wrote:
GeoRugby wrote:
beber wrote:If Georgia win in Spain and Italy lose in Scotland, Georgia will be above Italy in World Rankings


Yes, and something tells me that in 6N they also know it. Wouldn't be surprised if Italy beats Scotland. Honestly I don`t care about Italy result. I just want Georgia to win in Spain, bonus or no bonus.


Scary. Im sure the ref didn't read your post though.


To be fair it was a stonewall penalty try, I don't know if you've seen the match but it could have come a couple of minutes earlier.


Yep - not sure how they thought that lying underneath the maul when they just had a man in the bin would help them keep the lead. The only thing I would have changed about the result would be for Parisse to have claimed the try :D

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Re: World Rankings

Postby NedRugby » Sun, 01 Mar 2015, 22:00

sk 88 wrote:To be fair it was a stonewall penalty try, I don't know if you've seen the match but it could have come a couple of minutes earlier.


When I wrote the comment I hadnt seen the match, but I hadnt really meant it seriously. Just thought it was a creepy coincidence but not seriously reading anything into it.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby dwpeate » Sat, 21 Mar 2015, 19:45

I guess Georgia will be above Italy now...

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Re: World Rankings

Postby GeoRugby » Sat, 21 Mar 2015, 19:58

dwpeate wrote:I guess Georgia will be above Italy now...


Doesn`t mean much but it`ll still be nice to see Georgia ahead of Italy at least on paper for once.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby dwpeate » Sat, 21 Mar 2015, 20:08

I know but there is no way noone official can avoid noticing that. I can't wait for Italy/Romania in RWC

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Hinato » Sun, 22 Mar 2015, 13:05

Classement World Rugby à jour d'après mes calculs:

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/629502Capture4.jpg

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Tue, 07 Apr 2015, 22:56

Can anybody explain this to me?

94 (94) Morocco MAR 25.59

95 (95) Papua New Guinea PNG 22.63


At the beginning of the year Morocco were ranked 37th and PNG were 56th. I don't believe either of them has played since then. So were they punished for their inactivity ??
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Horsehead » Wed, 08 Apr 2015, 11:08

Rowan wrote:Can anybody explain this to me?

94 (94) Morocco MAR 25.59

95 (95) Papua New Guinea PNG 22.63


At the beginning of the year Morocco were ranked 37th and PNG were 56th. I don't believe either of them has played since then. So were they punished for their inactivity ??


Year, it clearly does take into account inactivity. Everyone knows that 94 for Morocco is rubbish. But what on earth has happened to them, why don't they play anymore?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby NedRugby » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 04:57

Has the Maroccan union done something naughty? If so it could be part of the punishment.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 07:11

I do recall there were problems within the Moroccan administration a year or two back, following a downward spiral through the various divisions of African rugby, but also seem to recall that these were resolved and normality restored. What is for certain is that the move from European competition to African competition has been quite disastrous for Morocco. They had always regarded neighbours Spain as their arch-rivals and seem to have had slightly the better of them during their long and respectable involvement in FIRA first division competition. They also beat all of the other first division teams at one time or another, including the French XV, Italy, Romania and Russia. Tunisia does not appear to have suffered as badly for the transition, though I'm not sure they are quite the team they once were in the FIRA - a notable victory over the Oaks in Bucharest being among the highlights. I don't think returning the North Africans to European competition is the answer, but perhaps a Mediterranean league, pitting them against Spain and Portugal in an annual quadrangular tournament, might be a good move ...

As for PNG, I've got no idea what's going on. I believe their last match was a narrow loss to the Cook Islands in the Oceania RWC qualifying series final (played for the right to meet Fiji for a berth at RWC VIII) a couple of years ago.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Horsehead » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 09:20

I've wondered about Tunisia and Morocco and whether they would benefit from a return to European competition. I believe they would get more games a year against better opposition. I wonder if they left FIRA for Africa out of choice and prefer the current set up or if they would rather play in Europe. I wonder what the cost of travel aspect is?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby iul » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 10:15

Horsehead wrote:I've wondered about Tunisia and Morocco and whether they would benefit from a return to European competition. I believe they would get more games a year against better opposition. I wonder if they left FIRA for Africa out of choice and prefer the current set up or if they would rather play in Europe. I wonder what the cost of travel aspect is?

IIRC they got kicked out.
I'm sure it's cheaper for them to fly to Europe than to the southern parts of Africa. I've seen flights from Italy or Spain to Morocco with Ryanair for 30-40 euro for a round trip.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 10:27

Yes, I think it was a consequence of the global re-alignment of world rugby's regional associations. At one time, Argentina was also a member of FIRA, I believe, though they did not compete in the European-centred competition. Morocco may well have resented this re-alignment, although the current head of the African Rugby is apparently from that nation. & let's remember, this is the nation that produced legendary forward Abdel Benazzi - who played for the Atlas Lions before Les Bleus.

BTW, I believe Morocco are also currently suspended by Africa soccer for refusing to host this year's African Nations Cup after the outbreak of Ebola. It seems from afar the Maghreb kingdom has a somewhat snobbish attitude toward its Sub-Saharan brothers. . .
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 10:37

Weren't both nations challenging Namibia at one stage over the last dozen years for the African world cup spot? I seem to remember Namibia scraping through due to try differential one time.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby iul » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 10:39

Tunisia made the repechage for the last RWC and got thrashed in Romania.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 10:47

Morocco missed out in 99 after losing on aggregate to Uruguay in the repechage. Probably no team has got close to qualifying for the RWC without having actually done so. They reached the repechages again in 2007 but were narrowly beaten by Portugal in both encounters. In addition to being thrashed by the Oaks in a repechage a few years back, Tunisia once met Spain in a RWC qualifying repechage but were well-beaten in a one-off encounter.

Meanwhile, Morocco and Tunisia have always selected their teams mostly out of the French leagues. This, of course, is one reason - and perhaps the main one - why Europe would have been a much preferable home for them.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Horsehead » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 10:55

In football you do get cases of teams moving from one federation to another for instance we have Israel in UEFA (i know this is the same in Rugby and is for political reasons) but Kazakhstan also moved from Asia to UEFA out of choice and Australia moved from Oceania to Asia. There are probably other examples that I am unaware of (I think I read that Cape Verde were considering applying to UEFA and leave CAF).

So I wonder if Morocco and Tunisia could do the same in Rugby if they wanted? I'm not saying they would want to or they should, I just wondered if WR would allow it

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 11:17

I doubt it. For one thing, Africa needs Morocco and Tunisia. They are among its strongest half dozen or so teams, regardless what the rankings say. For another, the IRB & FIRA obviously wanted to re-align for a reason, presumably to sort out the regional competitions so that World Cup qualifying would become a straightforward continent-by-continent affair. In saying that, there are some odd alignments in Central America and the Caribbean, with Costa Rica in South America and Guyana in North America, for example. Morocco and Tunisia are obviously required to travel extensively, with most of the continent's other top teams being located south of the equator. & again, many of their players are based in France. Meanwhile, the ENC has a developing and competitive (Georgia's dominance notwithstanding) top division as it is. I don't think it would be to their advantage to re-admit Morocco and Tunisia and deny a couple of their own members the chance to play at that level. As stated, I'd rather see a compromise, with the North Africans involved in a quadrangular series with the Iberians, for example. I'd also like to see South Africa re-introduced to CAR competition, ideally with a team of non-whites. It would be a real privilege for other teams to play against such a team, including the North Africans, as it is for the Pacific Islands to play the Maori . . .
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 11:44

Turns out Tunisia did come close to qualifying in 2003 folks. In the two leg series to decide who from Africa would go through the aggregate score after the two games saw both Namibia and Tunisia level on points, Namibia qualified having score one additional try.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 21:56

:thumbup: Well done, thatrugbyguy. That one slipped my mind. I've actually discussed it on here before somewhere... :geek:
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Hansgrohe » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 23:55

Wow. Feel so bad for these fringe teams that came oh-so-close (Chile, Tunisia, etc).

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Fri, 10 Apr 2015, 08:11

Well, the year Tunisia were denied direct qualification on aggregate after a drawn series with Namibia was the same year they went to the repechages instead and got smashed by Romania. So they really weren't up to the task anyway. Similarly, I don't recall that Chile really got that close either, despite a shock home-win over the US. It came down to their last game, in the US, where they were decisively beaten and thus consigned to the bottom of the table. I would say that Morocco's narrow defeat to Uruguay on aggregate in the 1999 repechage was a much closer call, and perhaps they are the most unlucky nation so far not to have qualified for the World Cup.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 10 Apr 2015, 08:47

Chile actually finished level on points with the US in 2003 who later qualified through repechage. The US was actually really close to not qualifying in 2003. It makes me wonder what would have happened had these teams qualified in 2003. Especially Chile, makes me wonder what impact it would have had on that country. Where Tunisia are is anyone's guess, Namibia, Zimbabwe and Kenya are the dominant teams in the region now.

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