Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

World Rankings

Posts: 1310
Joined: Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:40
Location: Europe
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: World Rankings

Postby Thomas » Tue, 27 Nov 2018, 23:29

I found this doing a Google Search

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rugby_Rankings

Highest Lowest
Ranking Ranking

Italy 8 2007 15 2015, 2017, 2018

Posts: 353
Joined: Wed, 20 Aug 2014, 08:36
National Flag:
FijiFiji

Re: World Rankings

Postby Warpath » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 03:58

Thomas wrote:I found this doing a Google Search

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rugby_Rankings

Highest Lowest
Ranking Ranking

Italy 8 2007 15 2015, 2017, 2018



i actually wrote that wiki article 11 years ago, then people tried to delete it cause they couldn't understand it and i was like 'who does?" :P that said, italy's worst ranking is 15 which isn't that bad compared to tonga and samoa who have been nearer to 20.. fiji's worst was 16th during that dark "sam domoni "2011 era..

User avatar
Posts: 4430
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 04:27

Well done, it's an interesting statistic.
I hope the WR ranking on the right column is updated automatically; I'm always surprised about the percentage of pages constantly updated, often few hours or even minutes after the end of a match

It seems somehow significant the fact that Australia, France, Italy (=), Samoa and South Africa (=) reached in 2018 their worst ranking. This could mean that the ancient strength ratios are changing, even if the top 15 teams are always the same apart the exception made by the recent exploit of USA

Posts: 66
Joined: Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 01:18
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: World Rankings

Postby ShyLockNo5 » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 05:09

Canalina wrote:The ranking should no change anymore before the new year. So this is a Top 15 paragon between the end of 2017 and the end of 2018, with in green positions and points gained and in red positions and points lost

Image


Nice work!
How does 16-20 look? Interested to know Samoa and Canada's changes. For that matter, Kenya, HK and Germany too.

Posts: 87
Joined: Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 06:57
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: World Rankings

Postby Gorbeh » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 07:54

ShyLockNo5 wrote:
Nice work!
How does 16-20 look? Interested to know Samoa and Canada's changes. For that matter, Kenya, HK and Germany too.


Don't want to do it it paint, so here it goes:

15. (-1) Italy 72.75 (+1.50)
16. (+0) Samoa 68.78 (-0.25)
17. (+1) Uruguay 66.82 (+1.19)
18. (-3) Romania 65.45 (-4.13)
19. (+0) Russia 65.20 (+0.75)
20. (+1) Canada 62.95 (+1.83)
21. (-1) Spain 62.24 (+0.56)
22. (+1) Namibia 60.34 (+1.41)
23. (+4) Netherlands 58.45 (+2.56)
24. (-2) Hong Kong 58.11 (-1.55)
25. (+4) Belgium 58.09 (+2.72)
26. (+0) Germany 57.83 (+1,31)
27. (-2) Portugal 57.08 (-0.71)
28. (+0) Brazil 56.81 (+1,20)
29. (-5) Chile 54.36 (-3,82)
30. (+1) Korea 53.59 (+0.25)

edit:

32. (-2) Kenya 52.79 (-1.45)

Posts: 66
Joined: Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 01:18
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: World Rankings

Postby ShyLockNo5 » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 09:05

Gorbeh wrote:
ShyLockNo5 wrote:
Nice work!
How does 16-20 look? Interested to know Samoa and Canada's changes. For that matter, Kenya, HK and Germany too.


Don't want to do it it paint, so here it goes:

15. (-1) Italy 72.75 (+1.50)
16. (+0) Samoa 68.78 (-0.25)
17. (+1) Uruguay 66.82 (+1.19)
18. (-3) Romania 65.45 (-4.13)
19. (+0) Russia 65.20 (+0.75)
20. (+1) Canada 62.95 (+1.83)
21. (-1) Spain 62.24 (+0.56)
22. (+1) Namibia 60.34 (+1.41)
23. (+4) Netherlands 58.45 (+2.56)
24. (-2) Hong Kong 58.11 (-1.55)
25. (+4) Belgium 58.09 (+2.72)
26. (+0) Germany 57.83 (+1,31)
27. (-2) Portugal 57.08 (-0.71)
28. (+0) Brazil 56.81 (+1,20)
29. (-5) Chile 54.36 (-3,82)
30. (+1) Korea 53.59 (+0.25)

edit:

32. (-2) Kenya 52.79 (-1.45)

Thanks very much. Excellent!

User avatar
Posts: 4430
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 12:40

It's interesting to see that Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands all improved neatly and that they are near each other in the ranking, as they are near each other on the map.
This leads to think that they could help each other, even if I don't know in which way. Some years ago if I'm not wrong there was a german-dutch-belgian tournament for clubs, but it never had real success

Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: World Rankings

Postby Tobar » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 13:29

Canalina wrote:It's interesting to see that Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands all improved neatly and that they are near each other in the ranking, as they are near each other on the map.
This leads to think that they could help each other, even if I don't know in which way. Some years ago if I'm not wrong there was a german-dutch-belgian tournament for clubs, but it never had real success


There's the BeNeCup for Belgium and Netherlands but from listening to other users talk about that here it's been alright. A good tournament but not spearheading any major change. Most of the Bundesliga teams are in the SW part of Germany making them much closer to Belgium/Netherlands so it seems logical to include them as well (looks like around a 3-5 hour train ride).

Posts: 66
Joined: Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 01:18
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: World Rankings

Postby ShyLockNo5 » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 14:56

Tobar wrote:
Canalina wrote:It's interesting to see that Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands all improved neatly and that they are near each other in the ranking, as they are near each other on the map.
This leads to think that they could help each other, even if I don't know in which way. Some years ago if I'm not wrong there was a german-dutch-belgian tournament for clubs, but it never had real success


There's the BeNeCup for Belgium and Netherlands but from listening to other users talk about that here it's been alright. A good tournament but not spearheading any major change. Most of the Bundesliga teams are in the SW part of Germany making them much closer to Belgium/Netherlands so it seems logical to include them as well (looks like around a 3-5 hour train ride).


Do the smaller countries get to play much at all? I know there are small regional tournaments here and there but it's a shame the big 8 play one another constantly but the small nations don't get to play beyond their region. It would be good for their development and confidence if countries such as, for example, Bulgaria, Pakistan, Indonesia, Finland, Rwanda and Mauritius (all ranked in the 90s) got to play one another. Only some rugby-mad billionaire could make this happen, of course. I don't think World Rugby would be interested.

Posts: 1310
Joined: Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:40
Location: Europe
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: World Rankings

Postby Thomas » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 15:34

Warpath wrote:
Thomas wrote:I found this doing a Google Search

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rugby_Rankings

Highest Lowest
Ranking Ranking

Italy 8 2007 15 2015, 2017, 2018



i actually wrote that wiki article 11 years ago, then people tried to delete it cause they couldn't understand it and i was like 'who does?" :P that said, italy's worst ranking is 15 which isn't that bad compared to tonga and samoa who have been nearer to 20.. fiji's worst was 16th during that dark "sam domoni "2011 era..


I quite like it and easy to follow. I should do google search more often

User avatar
Posts: 4430
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 17:13

Men+women ranking. In red the nations absent in the women ranking. No one nation present in the women ranking is absent in the men's one

NEW ZEALAND 187,25
ENGLAND 177,84
FRANCE 166,78
IRELAND 163,68
AUSTRALIA 161,08
WALES 160,4
USA 153,75
SOUTH AFRICA 152,56
SCOTLAND 151,73
CANADA 149,08
- - - - -
ITALY 147,96
JAPAN 138,23
SPAIN 135,01
SAMOA 134,5
FIJI 126,01
RUSSIA 123,67
NETHERLANDS 122,66
PORTUGAL 121,08
GERMANY 117,24
TONGA 114,12
- - - - -
ROMANIA 110,4
BELGIUM 110,36
HONG KONG 109,55
SWEDEN 106,17
KAZAKHSTAN 104,36
NAMIBIA 100,34
TRINIDAD & TOBAGO 97,96
KENYA 97,14
BRAZIL 94,81
SWITZERLAND 93,24
- - - - -
ZIMBABWE 89,98
GUYANA 88,78
UGANDA 87,99
JAMAICA 87,04
CAYMAN ISLANDS 86,15
SINGAPORE 85,02
DENMARK 81,58
BOSNIA & HERZEGOVINA 81,35
CZECHIA 80,3
THAILAND 79,44
- - - - -
CHINA 79,43
LUXEMBOURG 79,17
PAPUA NEW GUINEA 77,11
PHILIPPINES 77,08
ARGENTINA 77,05
BOTSWANA 76,94
NORWAY 75,32
GEORGIA 73,42
UZBEKISTAN 72,69
INDIA 71,64
- - - - -
SERBIA 70,86
BARBADOS 70,78
S.VINCENT&GRENADINES 69,62
BAHAMAS 67,43
URUGUAY 66,82
FINLAND 66,8
CHILE 54,36
KOREA 53,59
POLAND 52,29
LITHUANIA 51,53
- - - - -
UKRAINE 50,25
COLOMBIA 49,84
PARAGUAY 49,59
MALTA 49,48
TUNISIA 48,53
SRI LANKA 48,27
COTE D'IVOIRE 46,59
MOROCCO 46,33
MALAYSIA 46,26
CROATIA 45,86
- - - - -
MEXICO 45,66
MADAGASCAR 45,34
COOK ISLANDS 45,11
SENEGAL 44,82
MOLDOVA 43,63
LATVIA 43,43
VENEZUELA 41,87
ISRAEL 41,79
CHINESE TAIPEI 41,33
HUNGARY 40,12
- - - - -
ZAMBIA 39,72
SLOVENIA 39,07
GUAM 38,71
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 37,93
NIGERIA 37,71
BERMUDA 37,39
ANDORRA 37,2
PERU 36,13
AUSTRIA 35,3
TAHITI 33,79
- - - - -
SWAZILAND 32,04
GHANA 31,9
BULGARIA 31,1
PAKISTAN 30,74
MAURITIUS 30,56
RWANDA 29,78
COSTA RICA 29,57
INDONESIA 28,73
NIUE ISLAND 28,45
CAMEROON 26,33
- - - - -
SOLOMON ISLANDS 24,4
MONACO 23,17
GREECE 22,55
VANUATU 21,45
AMERICAN SAMOA 19,53

Posts: 419
Joined: Thu, 04 Jun 2015, 12:34
National Flag:
RussiaRussia

Re: World Rankings

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 23:10

The Women's ranking in its current format is a joke (not a funny one) to anyone who cares even the slightest bit about Women's rugby. Adding them is ridiculous, sorry.
This will be true until the Portugal Blip is corrected.
It's worth sh!t.

Posts: 3357
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: World Rankings

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 28 Nov 2018, 23:43

Correct. But since I'm always the one whining about it, I'm glad someone else says it. It's an insult to nations who care about women's rugby like Czechia to be dead last while others are 15th and gain spots by being inactive for two decades.

User avatar
Posts: 4430
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Thu, 29 Nov 2018, 00:36

I think there are some hints that the women's ranking is gonna becoming more significant. In Oceania they have just played a continental championship with Fiji, Samoa, PNG and Tonga (a quite unexpected event!), we had in summer an Asia B championship with India and Philippines and I've recently read news about women (re)trying to play XV in Austria and in one or other two countries that now I don't remember. The suspect is that XV is slowly and silently revamping, here and there in the world. Maybe World Rugby chose the correct strategy: spread 7s, enlarge the base of players and when they will be in a sufficient number let them start desiring to try XV.
This could apply also for men's rugby, in the minor countries.

Posts: 5080
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: World Rankings

Postby victorsra » Thu, 29 Nov 2018, 02:32

. Maybe World Rugby chose the correct strategy: spread 7s, enlarge the base of players and when they will be in a sufficient number let them start desiring to try XV.
This could apply also for men's rugby, in the minor countries.


I think this is too vague. It is not the overal number of players that makes you able to play Women's XVs. It is how they are spread. In Brazil the number of clubs wth women's rugby is big, but as there are only sevens competitions players prefer to spread through many clubs. Therefore none of the clubs have XVs, But if clubs from the same areas merged or joint force we could easily have women's XVs. Why they don't do that? Because Unions say they won't organize women's XVs and the clubs are not working together properly to make it happen.

In other words, it is not a matter of growing number. It is how it is organized.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 5080
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: World Rankings

Postby victorsra » Thu, 29 Nov 2018, 02:35

Men's and Women's Rankings should havily deduct points from teams that haven't played a test in a year. I would scrap like 10 points for a year without tests. I understand a country opting out from competitions, but a single test against a neghbour is much more a matter of organization than money.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 3357
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: World Rankings

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 29 Nov 2018, 08:45

victorsra wrote:Men's and Women's Rankings should havily deduct points from teams that haven't played a test in a year. I would scrap like 10 points for a year without tests. I understand a country opting out from competitions, but a single test against a neghbour is much more a matter of organization than money.

It is already the case for men, isn't it?

Canalina wrote:I think there are some hints that the women's ranking is gonna becoming more significant. In Oceania they have just played a continental championship with Fiji, Samoa, PNG and Tonga (a quite unexpected event!), we had in summer an Asia B championship with India and Philippines and I've recently read news about women (re)trying to play XV in Austria and in one or other two countries that now I don't remember. The suspect is that XV is slowly and silently revamping, here and there in the world. Maybe World Rugby chose the correct strategy: spread 7s, enlarge the base of players and when they will be in a sufficient number let them start desiring to try XV.
This could apply also for men's rugby, in the minor countries.


The problem is that by not punishing inactive teams it will take a decade to have a real ranking only based on the games are being played.

And regarding 7s, by betting on them to expand women's rugby they screwed a few countries that were something in 00s and are nowhere near now.

Posts: 87
Joined: Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 06:57
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: World Rankings

Postby Gorbeh » Thu, 29 Nov 2018, 08:57

Armchair Fan wrote:
victorsra wrote:Men's and Women's Rankings should havily deduct points from teams that haven't played a test in a year. I would scrap like 10 points for a year without tests. I understand a country opting out from competitions, but a single test against a neghbour is much more a matter of organization than money.

It is already the case for men, isn't it?

Nope, same as for the womens' ranking. A country can be deemed inactive and will be excluded from the ranking, but as soon as they become active again, they start with their old ranking points. There is no further clarification (at least at the official ranking website), from which point on (a year, two years etc.) a team will be declared inactive.

User avatar
Posts: 4430
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Thu, 29 Nov 2018, 10:15

Gorbeh wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:
victorsra wrote:Men's and Women's Rankings should havily deduct points from teams that haven't played a test in a year. I would scrap like 10 points for a year without tests. I understand a country opting out from competitions, but a single test against a neghbour is much more a matter of organization than money.

It is already the case for men, isn't it?

Nope, same as for the womens' ranking. A country can be deemed inactive and will be excluded from the ranking, but as soon as they become active again, they start with their old ranking points. There is no further clarification (at least at the official ranking website), from which point on (a year, two years etc.) a team will be declared inactive.

I think instead that that kind of deduction is already working in the men's ranking, Gorbeh.
If I remember correctly, in two different years World Rugby deduced six points to several nations "guilty" to have not played for the previous 12 months. The last time this happened was, I hope no not be wrong, at the end of 2016, while I think that at the end of 2017 there were no deductions (for some hardly arguably reason). Let's see if some sanction will be taken at the end of this year; there are several nations which haven't played a test match in 2018, included the quite blazoned Sri Lanka and PNGuinea.
For my point of view, the 10-points deduction purposed by Victorsra is too harsh. I would imagine a 3 points deduction for every year you don't play a test match. In women's case, 3 points deduced every two years you don't play a test match. And maybe we could say that after ten years without test matches you disappear from the ranking

Armchair Fan wrote:And regarding 7s, by betting on them to expand women's rugby they screwed a few countries that were something in 00s and are nowhere near now.

Can't agree a lot with this, but, ok, I think this is not the place to chat about women's rugby

Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: World Rankings

Postby Tobar » Fri, 30 Nov 2018, 19:07

ShyLockNo5 wrote:
Canalina wrote:The ranking should no change anymore before the new year. So this is a Top 15 paragon between the end of 2017 and the end of 2018, with in green positions and points gained and in red positions and points lost

Image


Nice work!
How does 16-20 look? Interested to know Samoa and Canada's changes. For that matter, Kenya, HK and Germany too.


Info is all available online and the biggest climbers and biggest fallers are presented: https://www.world.rugby/rankings/mru?lang=en

Not everyone's changes are shown but you can compare each WR rankings going back to 2003.

Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: World Rankings

Postby Tobar » Fri, 30 Nov 2018, 19:20

ShyLockNo5 wrote:
Tobar wrote:
Canalina wrote:It's interesting to see that Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands all improved neatly and that they are near each other in the ranking, as they are near each other on the map.
This leads to think that they could help each other, even if I don't know in which way. Some years ago if I'm not wrong there was a german-dutch-belgian tournament for clubs, but it never had real success


There's the BeNeCup for Belgium and Netherlands but from listening to other users talk about that here it's been alright. A good tournament but not spearheading any major change. Most of the Bundesliga teams are in the SW part of Germany making them much closer to Belgium/Netherlands so it seems logical to include them as well (looks like around a 3-5 hour train ride).


Do the smaller countries get to play much at all? I know there are small regional tournaments here and there but it's a shame the big 8 play one another constantly but the small nations don't get to play beyond their region. It would be good for their development and confidence if countries such as, for example, Bulgaria, Pakistan, Indonesia, Finland, Rwanda and Mauritius (all ranked in the 90s) got to play one another. Only some rugby-mad billionaire could make this happen, of course. I don't think World Rugby would be interested.


Depends on what ranking they are. There are lots of regional tournaments and more have been created recently. Teams ranked up until around 20 just started getting regular games for all 3 test windows. By the mid-20s or so it starts to become a bit less confirmed. Countries like Brazil and Chile, to my knowledge, will get the 4 matches for the ARC in February but then after that can be very spotty and in some cases only against non-national sides (Brazil just played Maori ABs but then played 2 matches against Argentina regions). Then when you get to the 30s/40s you'd be lucky to have 5 matches in a year. For example, Colombia is now part of 2 regular tournaments (one of which was created this year) and played 5 matches which is the most they've ever played. If it were not for the ARCh they'd likely just play 2 or 3.

Long story short, smaller countries barely play any games but it is definitely improving, especially if you are in certain recently popular regions like the Americas.

User avatar
Posts: 1172
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: World Rankings

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 03 Dec 2018, 14:49

Fiji has just 6 test matches this year...

User avatar
Posts: 4430
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Tue, 04 Dec 2018, 15:24

NaBUru38 wrote:Fiji has just 6 test matches this year...

Does someone want to recapitulate how many matches the top nations have played this year?

Posts: 2708
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: World Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 05 Dec 2018, 09:56

Canalina wrote:
NaBUru38 wrote:Fiji has just 6 test matches this year...

Does someone want to recapitulate how many matches the top nations have played this year?

I had no idea how hard this actually is. World Rugby would be great, but somehow I haven't found a way to distinguish between the different teams of one nation. You can see all the results of a given competition of i.e. Men's XV, but not all of them in one time-schedule :roll:
But maybe I've missed something.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

User avatar
Posts: 4430
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Wed, 05 Dec 2018, 11:50

Agree. They put all the results (or the fixtures) together: men XV, women XV, 7s men and women, U20, women U20. It's a maelstrom. Usually there's a little title upon the result (like "Euro Women Trophy") but not always and not always it makes clear what kind of game it is.
I don't think it would be difficult to mark the difference between one sex and the other and between different ages.
Maybe they could put two different colors on the background for men and women (blue men, purple women for example) and maybe with a little triangle on the upper left corner to specify if it is 7s (if it's XV no triangle at all) and a little triangle on the upper right corner to specify if it is an underage game

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A_FlyingMegaKiwi, Natal and 6 guests