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World Rankings

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 07:19

In the whole tournament. Every match of the World Cup gives (and cuts) double points.

It means that if you lose by 16 points with a team ranked more than ten points behind, you lose 6 points in a match!

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Sun, 29 Sep 2019, 08:19

World Rugby is updating the ranking day by day; or, to say better, match by match
I noticed that just now

https://www.world.rugby/rankings/mru

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Re: World Rankings

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 29 Sep 2019, 08:23

Given matches are being played all week I don't think they have much option but to do that.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 07:41

Canalina wrote:World Rugby is updating the ranking day by day; or, to say better, match by match
I noticed that just now

https://www.world.rugby/rankings/mru


Strange. They didn't do this last RWC...
Edit: do they really? The date still shows September 30th. They just published the rankings, this sunday after the games.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 08:37

Trust me, they are doing it after every game.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 01 Oct 2019, 07:37

Armchair Fan wrote:Trust me, they are doing it after every game.

So is there a way to access those daily rankings? The tab only shows the weekly one to chose from.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Thu, 03 Oct 2019, 20:42

An other little earthquake today: Georgia lost almost 4 points and three positions, falling14th behind Fiji, Italy and Usa.
Fiji re-took almost all the points lost against Uruguay

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Re: World Rankings

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 09:07

Were Georgia really favoured that much in that game? I thought Fiji were still ahead of them?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 09:31

I really think the rankings should be paused for the duration of the tournament.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 10:35

sk 88 wrote:Were Georgia really favoured that much in that game? I thought Fiji were still ahead of them?

Fiji dropped behind Georgia after the loss with Uruguay, plus the World Cup match awards twice the points of a normal test match (and penalize in the same amount), plus Georgia lost with Fiji by more than 15 pts: all this created that big loss of ranking points

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Re: World Rankings

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 03:10

Spain leaped over the US and Uruguay...holy moly this is a dumb formula.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Charvis » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 07:31

I dont know about the USA but Spain have been beating Uruguay consistently for some years now, last time on Uruguayan turf.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 07:33

TheStroBro wrote:Spain leaped over the US and Uruguay...holy moly this is a dumb formula.

Spain was already ahead of Uruguay before RWC as a consequence of the win in Montevideo last June, Teros just danced around with their win against Fiji and defeat against Georgia.

But don't worry, until February 22nd Spain will put a lot of points at stake, which may send us to 21st position... or 12th if some miracles happen.

Charvis wrote:I dont know about the USA but Spain have been beating Uruguay consistently for some years now, last time on Uruguayan turf.

"Consistently". We won in 2016 and 2019, we lost in 2016 and 2017.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby rey200 » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 07:49

he has a point though. The ranking isn't that bad. Compared to other sports (and, of course the women's ranking) it's quite alright.
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Re: World Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 08:19

rey200 wrote:he has a point though. The ranking isn't that bad. Compared to other sports (and, of course the women's ranking) it's quite alright.


Yep, I also think the ranking is quite accurate most of the times. I am also more than convinced that Spain would have surprised a few people if they had taken part. About the USA: if you lose every game at the RWC it is clear, that you will mix in between the nations not qualified - especially when two teams in the top20 got disqualified in the qualification.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Sat, 04 Jan 2020, 04:35

As always it happens, we know more than World Rugby...
About the 2019 ranking variations, the say that "The only nation to suffer a double-figure drop in positions was Lithuania, five defeats on the bounce in the Rugby Europe Trophy resulting in them ending the year in 44th having started it in 34th.
Bosnia and Herzegovina and Austria both fell nine places, while Sweden and Paraguay had the next worst record with an eight-place demotion".
https://www.world.rugby/news/548974

But there's an other nation that faced an even larger double figure drop: Papua New Guinea, 17 positions lost.
And to my calculations Bosnia and Austria as well lost eight positions, not nine
https://blog.rugby.it/?p=10455

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Edinburra » Sat, 04 Jan 2020, 07:34

One of the most infuriating things about the World Rankings is how Tier 1 teams 'protect' their rankings with occassional wins and bonus points in World Cups.
Looking at Italy as an example , at the start of 2017 , they were ranked 13th in the world. During the year , they won 1 game and lost 11 games (albeit against mostly higher ranked teams) yet only dropped 1 place to 14th. In 2018 , they won 2 games and lost 9 games , and again only dropped 1 place to 15th.
Move onto the World Cup year and they win 3 games , lose 9 and move back up to 12th because of the extra weighting points in the world cup and 2 wins against predominantly amateur or newly professional teams (Namibia and Canada). The other win was a home win against Russia.
Basically in the space of 3 years , Italy have played 35 games , won 6 , lost 29 and yet have moved up the rankings ?????

How can a rankings system be fair when a team loses so many games and moves up the rankings.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 04 Jan 2020, 08:34

Well, it is fair given most defeats happened against teams out of their reach. It is not rankings' fault that international calendar is flawed and bases on marketing criteria.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Sat, 04 Jan 2020, 09:08

I think's a good working system, in my opinion.
Let's consider the opposite: given that Italy has won 6 games and lost 29 they should drop in -let's say- 25th position. Russia have a good amount of victories in REC so they should go up to -let's say- 15th position.
Then you have Italy v Russia, like in this last summer, and it ends 85-15 (with the second russian try clearly irregular...).

I think there are not big discrepancies between the rankings and the realty, at least regarding the first third of the chart; but I think no one cares about the ranking out of the first thirty positions

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 04 Jan 2020, 09:22

Canalina wrote:Russia have a good amount of victories in REC so they should go up to -let's say- 15th position.

Not that a big amount, I'd say their ratio of wins over last RWC cycle in REC is negative and I don't know if June and November wins level that.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 04 Jan 2020, 10:02

The problem with the rankings is the massively lopsided calendar almost everyone plays. If Italy played nations ranked 5 to 15th each year they'd be closer to a 50/50 win rate, instead they predominantly play the top 10. Similarly USA hardly plays France, Fiji, Scotland, Italy who are the teams directly above them but play Canada, Brazil etc every year.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 04 Jan 2020, 11:58

World Rankings top 20 is probably about right, but only because we've just had the World Cup. From 21 onwards they do not reflect the relative strength of teams. Hong Kong are not better than Canada and Namibia. Netherlands are not better than Belgium. I don't think this is necessary a problem as long as people don't take them literally. If people are going to use these rankings for anything they should have an understanding of how they're calculated.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby mcruic » Sun, 05 Jan 2020, 01:06

Chester-Donnelly wrote:World Rankings top 20 is probably about right, but only because we've just had the World Cup. From 21 onwards they do not reflect the relative strength of teams. Hong Kong are not better than Canada and Namibia. Netherlands are not better than Belgium. I don't think this is necessary a problem as long as people don't take them literally. If people are going to use these rankings for anything they should have an understanding of how they're calculated.


I've just got my rankings back online after a 7 year break, using a modified elo system, which I've applied to 70 different sports.

Netherlands' performances have them about the same level or slightly above Belgium, according to my calculations (Netherlands 25th, Belgium 27th).

Hong Kong not too far behind Canada and Namibia (23rd, 19th, 22nd respectively).
http://theroonba.com Results, fixtures, rankings

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 05 Jan 2020, 04:05

I more or less agree with your rankings. Top 22 are the teams that usually qualify for the World Cup so that is correct.
Last edited by Chester-Donnelly on Sun, 05 Jan 2020, 09:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Edgar » Sun, 05 Jan 2020, 08:42

Bulgaria climbed from 91st to 74th last year. About time they made some progress. Bulgarian rugby got off the ground in the 1950s and they have been regular participants in European competition since 1962 - both FIRA and ENC. But they have been rooted to the bottom of the pecking order the whole time, even losing to Turkey a few years ago. Turkish rugby basically involves a handful of amateur senior men's clubs with one or two teams, though the national squad is invariably able to call upon the services of a few foreign-based players (mostly from Germany, I believe). Both Turkey and Bulgaria have also been hit recently by a spate of defections to the rival code, as the new Balkans League has taken off. I'm not sure what's been holding Bulgaria back, however. They still only have 3000 players - apparently spread across 36 clubs. But the small Black Sea nation of 7 million has excelled in power-based sports such as wrestling and weightlifting. After the collapse of communism state funding dried up and a lot of their top wrestlers apparently went into organized crime. It's a shame rugby wasn't developed enough to attract these guys.

https://www.world.rugby/news/548974

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