Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

World Rankings

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Raven » Mon, 22 Jun 2015, 19:20

Rowan wrote:The World Rugby site is shite, I can't even tell what results I'm looking at on the main page - men's, women's, seniors, juniors, 15s or 7s - because they don't even bother to put that basic info up. & navigating it has become something of a nightmare.

Better off going to Wiki, where we can easily see that Spain's best ranking was 18th a couple of years back, while their worst was 32nd a decade ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rugby_Rankings


I agree.

Plus as we are at it, the WR logo doesn´t suit me that much either. This might be a sign of age, but "IRB" will always have a different music to my ears (and their old fashioned website too :D !)

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Canalina » Thu, 09 Jul 2015, 19:07

Is there a reason cause the WR rank has not been updated last monday?

http://www.worldrugby.org/rankings

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Re: World Rankings

Postby dwpeate » Mon, 20 Jul 2015, 11:03

Is this weeks rankings the closest its ever been to all RWC teams actually falling in the top 20?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Mon, 20 Jul 2015, 11:12

The rankings have just been updated. Kenya move to 28th. I'm surprised they're not a bit higher.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Mon, 27 Jul 2015, 12:08

Tonga replace Japan at 12 and the islands have three of the top 12 positions. No argument the Pacific trio are the top three teams outside of tier 1, and probably they'd beat one or two of the tier 1 teams as well.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Mon, 27 Jul 2015, 15:10

5 of the top 12 teams in Oceania and they don't have their own competition :roll:

& No. 13 Japan also on the West Pacific Rim. Seems like a 6 Nations comp just waiting to happen.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Suiram » Wed, 29 Jul 2015, 04:09

Big talk about an Americas 6 Nations, but I feel like the US benefits much more from the PNC. All 6 teams are relatively evenly matched, there is no one like Argentina who is a big step above and no one like Chile or something a big step below.

It also gives the US exposure to PI style and Japan's unique style which both should help develop our ability to play international tests outside our comfort zone

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Figaro » Wed, 29 Jul 2015, 07:36

The PNC is, on paper at least, more evenly matched than the 6N, ENC or RC. It has a reasonable geographic concept behind it and its just a shame its participants, not to mention the rest of the world, don't always take it very seriously. Its the sort of competition teams like Georgia and Romania would love to be able to participate in week-in, week-out.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Wed, 29 Jul 2015, 08:14

That's all true but what's the long term future? Cross-continental championships stifle the sport's international development by restricting elite competition to just a handful of nations. The PNC has benefited Japan, USA & Tonga, mostly, because they were traditionally the weaker of the six teams, and rugby is a game in which standards are determined largely by the quality of regular opposition one faces. If Canada and the US became involved in the Americas 6 Nations they would help raise the standards of Uruguay, Chile & Brazil, which would benefit the game in the long term. If that were to mean the end of the PNC, then personally I'd like to see the Pacific Islands merge with Asia and create their own 5 or 6 Nations, with Japan, Korea and Hong Kong involved. The PNC's only benefit to Fiji and Samoa had been in terms of providing much-needed test match opposition. But is it sustainable? Teams are travelling thousands of kilometres to play in front of crowds currently averaging 8000 per match.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Suiram » Wed, 29 Jul 2015, 08:21

Current crowds are not always great but I have to imagine leveraging the US market (and significant PI population) could really benefit even Fiji and Samoa despite being more established.

Hopefully in a non-WC year with continued growth of US market, a better structure can get launched with better promotion of matches.

Also in terms of travel schedule once you have teams flying between each game why not get off the west coast to Colorado or Utah? It's a long trip from the pacific but even an asian cup will be big travel for the PI and they won't have nearly the same potential market

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Coloradoan » Wed, 29 Jul 2015, 16:48

Sometimes you need to give a competition a little time. This year's PNC has been the best one so far and has had the highest attendances (which I'd imagine Wikipedia has on the low side, where do they get 5500 for Fiji-Samoa from?).

Also promotion of it has not exactly been a strong point. My impression, in Northern California at least, is that the local rugby communities and PI communities got behind the matches but not a lot of promotion was done outside of that. This is something RIM could help with going forward.

But with the A6N coming, I wouldn't be shocked to see the PNC go away. That would be a shame.

I am a little curious how the Americas 6N and a combined Asian/Pacific competition don't qualify as cross-continental competitions in Rowan's eyes.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Wed, 29 Jul 2015, 21:35

Suiram wrote:Current crowds are not always great but I have to imagine leveraging the US market (and significant PI population) could really benefit even Fiji and Samoa despite being more established.

Hopefully in a non-WC year with continued growth of US market, a better structure can get launched with better promotion of matches.

Also in terms of travel schedule once you have teams flying between each game why not get off the west coast to Colorado or Utah? It's a long trip from the pacific but even an asian cup will be big travel for the PI and they won't have nearly the same potential market


But with those distances, and those crowds, it must be running at a huge loss. I believe World Rugby funds it to the tune of tens of millions of dollars per year.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 30 Jul 2015, 10:18

I really hope the Pan Am/Americas 6 Nations doesn't prevent the US and Canada from competing in the PNC.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Thu, 30 Jul 2015, 10:52

I don't think it'll go ahead. It's not practicable. Distances are too great. Standards are way too varied. Nice idea, and I was initially 100 per cent for it. But in reality the Americas is probably not yet ready for it, and maybe never will be.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 30 Jul 2015, 14:23

I thought the American 6N was to be to be played in Feb and March, the only impact on the PNC is whether America and Canada can afford to do both.

PNC should really be able to get its self onto TV in Europe, the players are all reasonable names and I'd watch it a lot more if it was on TV, and that should help cover the costs.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby grande » Thu, 30 Jul 2015, 15:08

Best case for Canada (and I assume the USA as well) is if we could play in both the PNC and the A6N... I just don't know the costs associated with it, though.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Warpath » Fri, 31 Jul 2015, 03:19

rankings come monday

9) SAM 76.15
10) FJI 76.02
11) SCO 74.79
12) TGA 74.51

If samoa beats Fiji by more than 16 points, they will jump to 8th in rankings ...Same appies to FIji if itdoes the same fto samoa

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Re: World Rankings

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 31 Jul 2015, 04:27

grande wrote:Best case for Canada (and I assume the USA as well) is if we could play in both the PNC and the A6N... I just don't know the costs associated with it, though.


World Rugby are going to be in for a big pay day come the World Cup, I can't see why they wouldn't invest in both competitions.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Fri, 31 Jul 2015, 07:09

That's a huge investiment in Western Hemsiphere rugby. The original funding for the revamped PNC with a round-robin format was almost $US20 million a year. Do they really have that kind of money to throw at another competition that will involve two of the same teams - plus three tier 3 teams? I think the excessive costs of the round-robin format was the reason for breaking the PNC into pools - and last year they didn't even play a final. But the PNC, at least, is a tier 2 competition involving regular World Cup contender nations with a solid rugby culture, large player basis and loyal following. Chile and Brazil certainly don't have that. Their skills levels are at the lower end of ENC 1 standard (perhaps ENC 2, in Brazil's case), they're not going to draw huge numbers of fans, and throwing them into a major 'showpiece' event at this stage seems a little premature. Hopefully the razzle dazzle of 7s will really capture Brazlian imaginations next year, numbers will swell, and the national team will really begin to make some discernible progress. Then, perhaps, it would be appropriate to make such a major investment in their future. But I suspect it's at least five or even 10 years away from becoming a reality. Pichot's inclination for ambitious but ultimately unrealistic projects has already been exposed with his failed campaign to bring the 2023 World Cup to Argentina.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Figaro » Fri, 31 Jul 2015, 08:15

PNC should really be able to get its self onto TV in Europe, the players are all reasonable names and I'd watch it a lot more if it was on TV, and that should help cover the costs.


Amen to that. They could start by at least getting websites like the BBC to list the scores. I can't imagine that would cost anything; they list football friendlies between Liechtenstein and Andorra for chrissake so why not significant Rugby internationals featuring established UK-based players?

If there's not enough demand for the whole matches to be screened, at the very least some kind of highlights on ScrumV or whatever. Every World Cup match against a tier2 nation always begins with a long preamble by the commenters about how Rugby in Romania (for example) was great in the 80s "but has struggled ever since", or whatever. Maybe if the average Rugby fan had more of an idea of the actual state of Rugby in those countries then there'd be more commercial interest in the expansion of the game!

S4C do a Rugby highlights of the Top14 on the grounds that there are 3 Welsh players in it (5 last season, to be fair) - but that's far fewer than there are PNC players at the regions, and I bet highlights of the PNC would be a fraction of the cost of the Top14, and I for one would have much more interest in them.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Sables4EVA » Fri, 31 Jul 2015, 12:46

I agree, I was disappointed that it wasnt on Supersport in Africa too, I was looking forward to some exciting Pacific Islands style rugby to watch in the early morning.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Warpath » Fri, 31 Jul 2015, 12:52

yep no PNC shown in the islands this y ear, albeit ONE game, fiji-tonga which was on PPV in fiji

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Suiram » Sat, 01 Aug 2015, 10:24

Both PNC and A6N serve key purposes for WR.

PNC is currently the best Tier 2 competition out there. It takes 3 rugby powerhouses (PI) with limited funds and home market and links them up with 3 major growth markets for rugby (loosely including canada). From watching the games this year, quality of competition is highly entertaining and has a different feel than watching SAnZAR or 6 nations matches. A slightly extended format and more promotion could make it a profit center.

A6N would aim to create a more unified Americas rugby scene. The continents have extremely disparate skill levels and interest. A better promotes and more consistent tournament could pull up these other nations and serve for additional competition for US and Canada. It would be a longer term project but again should be justified on the growth potential.

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Rowan » Sat, 01 Aug 2015, 16:54

I saw one game, on the World Rugby web-site, Fiji v Japan. The skill levels were not particularly high and it looked like there was a poor crowd - but no match report I've come across bothered to give the actual attendance.

I would be surprised if World Rugby were to commit to funding another inter-continental championship involving Canada and the US. I imagine for them it would have to be one or the other, the NPC or the South American 6N.

So the latter tournament would probably need to be self-sustaining, and I doubt that's realistic at this point in time.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, then why not in between?

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Re: World Rankings

Postby Muzzy » Sat, 01 Aug 2015, 21:24

The games were on a thursday what do you expect.

Yes Fiji's skills were all a step down from how they played against Samoa. At least playing a tough game on Saturday then again on Thursday will give them some prep for how its gonna be with the world cup schedule.

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