Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Spanish rugby

Posts: 343
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Thu, 24 May 2018, 17:11

Well, that surely answered my questions! They definitely have youth teams, that's good to see. That's better than many American clubs. Interesting that they have clubs playing in Madrid when they're in Valladolid though.

I looked up some pictures of Valladolid, it's very beautiful. One day in the future I would like to do a month long tour of rugby countries, preferably places in Europe and not just the typical England/Ireland. I think it'd be more interesting to see what rugby culture in places like Spain and Romania are like.

Posts: 2437
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 26 May 2018, 12:05

I know there are quite a few matches going on today, but there you've got streamings for the two big ones in Spain this afternoon

Liga Heineken - Promotion play-off final game - Hernani v Ciencias Fundación Cajasol - 16:00 CEST (advantage Ciencias, +4 in its home game)


Liga Heineken - Final - VRAC Quesos Entrepinares v SilverStorm El Salvador - 18:00 CEST
http://cinestrenostv.tv/canales/deporte ... eporte.php
http://telefivegb.com/canales/deporte/teledeporte/

Posts: 2437
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 26 May 2018, 16:17

Crowd sounds great, but I fear most of is seated in the same side as TV cameras... Grandstands look worse than they are :(
Image
https://twitter.com/MiDanes/status/1000 ... 74656?s=19

Posts: 136
Joined: Sun, 21 May 2017, 09:02
National Flag:
PolandPoland

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby rey200 » Sat, 26 May 2018, 19:43

Hernani win 30-17 and stay in the Liga, right?

Posts: 2437
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 26 May 2018, 19:50

Yes. And VRAC beat El Salvador 18-12 to clinch back-to-back championships. Which probably means another Continental Shield without Spanish entrant...

Posts: 2437
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 27 May 2018, 09:06

Full game

Posts: 343
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Sun, 27 May 2018, 15:19

Any reason they couldn’t have postponed this by a week? Figure Champions League would’ve taken everyone’s attention, kudos to still getting so many to come.

Posts: 2437
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 27 May 2018, 15:35

League must start in September and finish before June so clubs can only pay 9 months to their pro players...

Posts: 343
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Sun, 27 May 2018, 17:35

That makes sense but also typical of backwards logic

Posts: 2437
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 28 May 2018, 16:03

Some tidbits from the weekend...

Official attendance hasn't been too publicised but was of 10,500. What in any other Tier 2/3 country would be a source of pride and celebration is provoking attacks, like 15,000 in Valencia did a month ago. The fact Zorrilla has gone from 26,500 in 2016 to 21,000 in 2017 and 10,500 must obviously prompt some thought, but still this was a League final where finalists weren't known until six days before, in a year with too many big occasions for Spanish rugby (REC, Cup, EPCR) and with people outside Valladolid a bit fed up with some of the dialectics employed in the FER v Valladolid war.

I prefer to be optimistic. Never before a División de Honor/Liga Heineken game had gathered a 10,000+ crowd.

--

There has been a bit of fuss in Valladolid as Sunday morning and during Spanish U6-U8-U10-U12 Tournaments the result of the final and the number of VRAC titles featured in Pepe Rojo's scoreboard. It wasn't too well-received by El Salvador fans, but hey, it shows how much does this rivalry mean to people in Valladolid:
Image
https://twitter.com/CarlosPatino87/stat ... 2433375237

--

Another positive from the weekend. As many schools of rugby from all around Spain met this weekend in Valladolid, kids could see in action some of their idols. There are great photos from Alvar Gimeno and CAU Valencia kids and Gabriel Vélez and Atlético Portuense people, two of the young guns hired by VRAC this season:
Image
https://twitter.com/VRAC/status/1001103382071971842
Image
https://twitter.com/CRAPortuense/status ... 2608029696

--

Unfortunately we've got already the first whispers about VRAC declining to take part in Continental Shield again next season.

Posts: 760
Joined: Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:40
Location: Europe
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Thomas » Tue, 29 May 2018, 10:07

Tobar wrote:Any reason they couldn’t have postponed this by a week? Figure Champions League would’ve taken everyone’s attention, kudos to still getting so many to come.


You could say the same thing about the Premiership the final is usually on the last weekend in May which has headaches of it's own as internationals cannot be released to their National Teams. We shouldn't worry what other sports are doing particularly football. The Champion Leagues final keeps changing, Last years was on the 3rd of June, the year before was on the 28th of May. in 2015 it was on the 5th of June.

@Armchair, if the whispers are true then it is a sad indictment of VRAC. I wish they play in Continental so they can prove they are good as they say they are.
Last edited by Thomas on Tue, 29 May 2018, 10:18, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 2437
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 29 May 2018, 10:14

Thomas, I've just translated some of VRAC head coach post-match statements on Continental Shield in the competition topic. It doesn't look good at all.

Posts: 228
Joined: Sun, 31 Aug 2014, 11:36
National Flag:
PakistanPakistan

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby jservuk » Tue, 29 May 2018, 17:46

Thomas wrote:
Tobar wrote:Any reason they couldn’t have postponed this by a week? Figure Champions League would’ve taken everyone’s attention, kudos to still getting so many to come.


You could say the same thing about the Premiership the final is usually on the last weekend in May which has headaches of it's own as internationals cannot be released to their National Teams. We shouldn't worry what other sports are doing particularly football. The Champion Leagues final keeps changing, Last years was on the 3rd of June, the year before was on the 28th of May. in 2015 it was on the 5th of June.

@Armchair, if the whispers are true then it is a sad indictment of VRAC. I wish they play in Continental so they can prove they are good as they say they are.


I think every sport does take what else is going on into account when scheduling events, mainly because of TV to avoid clashes.

Personally, I'd love for there to be a head-to-head of Champions League, Superbowl, NBA final, Ryder Cup, IPL Final etc to find out where they really rank. I'd love the Olympics, World Cup and whatever the thing that calls itself the 3rd biggest event all happening at the same time.

That's why I admire the Rugby League folks who scheduled the 1996 European Champions clash between Wales and England to clash with England vs Germany football semi in Euro 96.

Posts: 343
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Tue, 29 May 2018, 19:07

You 100% need to take other sports into account. When you have one of the worlds most popular sporting events that includes one of the most famous teams from a city 2 hours away then that makes a huge difference. If you want people to show up then you need to consider these things.

Posts: 1705
Joined: Sun, 20 Apr 2014, 16:57
Location: Leicester
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 29 May 2018, 20:40

I think you are just showing you don't know how European sports work.

The attendance market for this, given the time frame, is people within Valladoid and the immediate area. The TV market is the whole of Spain.

The first had time to get home to watch a final an hour later. The second is even better than on most weekends because there is only 1 football game on at all and its on at a totally different time. What other team sports were on TV at that time? What other sports full stop? Maybe some tennis and golf?

Perhaps moving it earlier in the day to give another hour's breathing room, but then you take away from the double header effect and start eating into the day proper.

Posts: 343
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Wed, 30 May 2018, 01:23

I'm pretty sure the Real Madrid fans were not sitting down after their game and watching this rugby match. Perhaps the fans are not willing to travel to Valladolid for this but they are still not watching it if they are watching the Champions League final....even if they aren't Real fans then surely they would still be watching it, no?

I'm also only saying that you have to take other sports into account because someone commented above that you don't have to worry about what others are doing. If you want it to be as commercially successful as possible then you want to avoid major conflicts like this. Though as stated above they clearly wanted to keep it in May to avoid paying players further which makes sense.

Posts: 996
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 30 May 2018, 03:34

Tobar wrote:I'm pretty sure the Real Madrid fans were not sitting down after their game and watching this rugby match. Perhaps the fans are not willing to travel to Valladolid for this but they are still not watching it if they are watching the Champions League final....even if they aren't Real fans then surely they would still be watching it, no?

I'm also only saying that you have to take other sports into account because someone commented above that you don't have to worry about what others are doing. If you want it to be as commercially successful as possible then you want to avoid major conflicts like this. Though as stated above they clearly wanted to keep it in May to avoid paying players further which makes sense.

You can't post pone the match a week though. You can a day or change the time significantly. But 15k head to head against the Champions League Final? Makes me think people interested in watching it aren't soccer fans.

Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 30 May 2018, 05:11

Tobar wrote:I'm pretty sure the Real Madrid fans were not sitting down after their game and watching this rugby match.


Everyone is pretty sure thid wasn't the case as the chanpions league final was AFTER the rugby game. :D
I second sk88, but the news impact was probably really less because of the soccer game.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 7
Joined: Wed, 16 May 2018, 09:19
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Caledor » Wed, 30 May 2018, 10:32

Hi All,

What is happening with the Spanish de Honor next season. I have been hearing from some players there that the leagues might be restructured or split? Is there any substance to these mutterings?

Posts: 2437
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 30 May 2018, 10:38

I don't think there will be big changes next season. FER will hold its General Assembly in the next few weeks and we will have a confirmation, but I don't expect anything critical until 2019-2020 season when clubs intend to seize power and promote the competition by themselves.

Posts: 1705
Joined: Sun, 20 Apr 2014, 16:57
Location: Leicester
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 30 May 2018, 10:53

Tobar wrote:I'm pretty sure the Real Madrid fans were not sitting down after their game and watching this rugby match. Perhaps the fans are not willing to travel to Valladolid for this but they are still not watching it if they are watching the Champions League final....even if they aren't Real fans then surely they would still be watching it, no?

I'm also only saying that you have to take other sports into account because someone commented above that you don't have to worry about what others are doing. If you want it to be as commercially successful as possible then you want to avoid major conflicts like this. Though as stated above they clearly wanted to keep it in May to avoid paying players further which makes sense.



I'm 100% certain of that, because the rugby was on 3 hours before the match.

There was no overlap with the Champions League at all. This is a non-issue.

Posts: 2437
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 30 May 2018, 10:59

In fact Champions League final was an integral part of the fanzone near Zorrilla. It may have deterred some, but just in the same way rain forecasts did. Not too many.

Posts: 343
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Wed, 30 May 2018, 13:52

sk 88 wrote:
Tobar wrote:I'm pretty sure the Real Madrid fans were not sitting down after their game and watching this rugby match. Perhaps the fans are not willing to travel to Valladolid for this but they are still not watching it if they are watching the Champions League final....even if they aren't Real fans then surely they would still be watching it, no?

I'm also only saying that you have to take other sports into account because someone commented above that you don't have to worry about what others are doing. If you want it to be as commercially successful as possible then you want to avoid major conflicts like this. Though as stated above they clearly wanted to keep it in May to avoid paying players further which makes sense.



I'm 100% certain of that, because the rugby was on 3 hours before the match.

There was no overlap with the Champions League at all. This is a non-issue.


But they were surely sitting down 3 hours after their team won...I don't think you know what it's like to have your team win a championship if you think they are moving on after just a few hours.

I think you're completely taking my comments out of context. I'm not suggesting that they are fools for putting it on this weekend, there were specific reasons for playing it at that time. I'm saying that when you plan sporting events of this magnitude then you have to take other events, such as the Champions League final, into consideration. Thomas suggested that we shouldn't worry about what other sports are doing, which is just naive. You always have to consider potential conflicts when trying to fill a stadium....in this case they did but had other reasons for putting it on this weekend as opposed to next.

Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 30 May 2018, 14:25

Tobar wrote:But they were surely sitting down 3 hours after their team won...I don't think you know what it's like to have your team win a championship if you think they are moving on after just a few hours.

I think you're completely taking my comments out of context. I'm not suggesting that they are fools for putting it on this weekend, there were specific reasons for playing it at that time. I'm saying that when you plan sporting events of this magnitude then you have to take other events, such as the Champions League final, into consideration. Thomas suggested that we shouldn't worry about what other sports are doing, which is just naive. You always have to consider potential conflicts when trying to fill a stadium....in this case they did but had other reasons for putting it on this weekend as opposed to next.


I still think that you mix something up. First was the rugby final, THEN was the soccer final.

Do you honestly think that there were only hardcore rugby fans in the stadium and they were celebrating so hard they couldn't watch a soccer game afterwards?
This was an event in a city far away from the soccer final. The only option to watch the game for the soccer fans was at home. And if they had a possibility to watch the soccer final afterwards at the stadium, as Armchair writes, that's great.

We Europeans love watching sport together. In Germany up to 100.000 (!) flock together to watch a soccer game on a big screen.

That's 33.000 fans watching the soccer World Cup final 2014 on a big screen in Munich together.


Over 100.000 watching Germany-Northern Ireland during the Euro 2016 together in Berlin.

Image

So having a rugby final on the day of a soccer final in a soccer mad country and have some public screens there, that's a good idea.

(Fun fact: we Germans call this event in the best denglish way possible "public viewings" and no normally nobody will be put to grave afterwards)
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 1705
Joined: Sun, 20 Apr 2014, 16:57
Location: Leicester
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Spanish rugby

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 30 May 2018, 14:46

Tobar wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
Tobar wrote:I'm pretty sure the Real Madrid fans were not sitting down after their game and watching this rugby match. Perhaps the fans are not willing to travel to Valladolid for this but they are still not watching it if they are watching the Champions League final....even if they aren't Real fans then surely they would still be watching it, no?

I'm also only saying that you have to take other sports into account because someone commented above that you don't have to worry about what others are doing. If you want it to be as commercially successful as possible then you want to avoid major conflicts like this. Though as stated above they clearly wanted to keep it in May to avoid paying players further which makes sense.



I'm 100% certain of that, because the rugby was on 3 hours before the match.

There was no overlap with the Champions League at all. This is a non-issue.


But they were surely sitting down 3 hours after their team won...I don't think you know what it's like to have your team win a championship if you think they are moving on after just a few hours.

I think you're completely taking my comments out of context. I'm not suggesting that they are fools for putting it on this weekend, there were specific reasons for playing it at that time. I'm saying that when you plan sporting events of this magnitude then you have to take other events, such as the Champions League final, into consideration. Thomas suggested that we shouldn't worry about what other sports are doing, which is just naive. You always have to consider potential conflicts when trying to fill a stadium....in this case they did but had other reasons for putting it on this weekend as opposed to next.



Yeah mate Leicester's never won anything of note in either rugby or football. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Are you reading any of the posts? Rugby final was at 6pm. Champions League was at 9pm.

The overlap in those wanting to watch the rugby in person, and those who wanted to watch the football at all costs are a practically non-existant sub group. If the final was either in Madrid or with a team from Madrid I'd see some merit in this discussion. But it wasn't and neither team was.

It was the same day as both Premiership and Pro 14 finals. Seriously it is not an issue in any way, shape or form.

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Tomster7uk and 12 guests