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Spanish rugby

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Wed, 17 Feb 2016, 07:04

"Intentaremos ganar y si no podemos trataremos de lograr un punto bonus" vs Georgia
"We try to win and if we can not try to achieve a bonus point" is there such expectation in Spain?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby gladiator » Wed, 17 Feb 2016, 08:43

Too optimistic. The last results against Romania and Russia suggest that there is still a huge step between Spain and Georgia (specially playing in Georgia).

Moreover, I would like to see the squad to play against Georgia. Some new players could have an opportunity in this match. I doubt that the staff of the team will make an effort to call the best players in France for this match. Nowdays, the games against Germany and Portugal are the most important for Spain.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Wed, 17 Feb 2016, 09:23

gladiator wrote:Too optimistic. The last results against Romania and Russia suggest that there is still a huge step between Spain and Georgia (specially playing in Georgia).

Moreover, I would like to see the squad to play against Georgia. Some new players could have an opportunity in this match. I doubt that the staff of the team will make an effort to call the best players in France for this match. Nowdays, the games against Germany and Portugal are the most important for Spain.

these french players playing in Spain are not Spanish. It is not right to let playing in national team to mercenaries.
Look at Argentina, they do not have any foreign mercenaries. Argentina and Georgia were only countries who has not hired these players. because it is National Team and it is not right to hire Australian backs and SA pack.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby gladiator » Wed, 17 Feb 2016, 09:45

I see your point, but I agree with you only partially. All squads (only some exceptions as you mention) have several players born in other countries. Some of them are even captains of their squads. There are rules and Spain, as the rest of the countries respect them. We may think that this distorts the spirit of competition, but also Georgia accepted these rules.

Otherwise, we have to distinguish: some of the mentioned players play in France but were born in Spain (Marco Pinto, Prod2 player, for example). Finally, other players have both nationalities and they have been playing for Spain since they were young (Gautier Giboin, 25 caps with Spanish team). In the end, all players try to push in the same direction.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 17 Feb 2016, 11:48

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:"Intentaremos ganar y si no podemos trataremos de lograr un punto bonus" vs Georgia
"We try to win and if we can not try to achieve a bonus point" is there such expectation in Spain?

No. But what do you expect them to say in the media? "We travel to Tbilisi aiming not to lose by more than 40 points"? ;)

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 22 Feb 2016, 15:05

A more national based and younger squad for the trip to Tbilisi...

José Luis del Valle (Cisneros)
Rafael de Santiago (CRC Madrid)
Pablo Fontes (Alcobendas)
Adam Newton (Alcobendas)
Jon Insausti (Hernani)
Oier Goia (Ordizia)
Joe Hutchinson (Bathco Independiente)
Francisco Javier Sanz (Bathco Independiente)
Pablo Gil (VRAC)
Manuel Mora (VRAC)
Daniel Stohr (VRAC)
Gareth Griffiths (VRAC)
Fede Casteglioni (VRAC)
Antoine Sánchez (El Salvador)
Fernando López (Massy, France)
Xerom Civil (UBB, France)
Gauthier Minguillon (UBB, France)
David Barrera (Vannes, France)
Sergi Aubanell (Aurillac, France)
Jaime Nava (Dijon, France)
Julen Goia (Monléon, France)
Juan Anaya (Galway, Ireland)
Dan Snee (Havelock North, NZ)

First caps for Pablo Gil, Daniel Stohr, Rafael de Santiago and Oier Goia. Only eight players remaining from the squad that lost 13-26 last year.

http://ferugby.es/noticias2.php?titulo= ... %20Georgia

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby solovastru » Mon, 22 Feb 2016, 18:48

Joe Hutchinson returned to play in Spain ? And what is this Bathco , a new team in the championship? New names in Spain aquisition list , Daniel Stohr is what?NZ?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 22 Feb 2016, 19:24

Bathco (a bathroom design company) is the naming sponsor of Independiente Rugby Club, from Cantabria. They hired Hutchinson last summer. Daniel Stohr has three nationalities, Spanish, German and Brazilian but has been playing for Spain since U17 and grew up in Marbella (like Munilla, Stokes...)

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 24 Feb 2016, 18:12

FER confirmed Copa del Rey final will take place in Valladolid. If José Zorrilla is free on April 17, it will be there. If there is football, then it will be moved to Pepe Rojo (usual rugby stadium).

And now, an interview made by As to national coach Santiago Santos before travelling to Georgia. Too optimistic... "We can go to RWC 2019 even through direct qualifying"
http://masdeporte.as.com/masdeporte/201 ... 60528.html
Spoiler:
- What kind of assesment do you make after the first two legs of 6 Nations B?
- We are a bit sad because we lost two matches and we just missed a bit to beat Russia and Romania. We obtained two defensive bonuses, which are importante too, and we now face the most complicated match of all the tournament, the visit to Georgia. We will try to scratch some points there, but it will be tough. The idea is to compete until the last minuted of the game and if we are lucky enough to be on the brink of a victory, go and catch it.

- Let's return to these two defeats. What seems clear is that we are really close two our future two rivals for RWC 2019 qualifying.
- We are just there. Not above them, obviously, but at the same level. Losing by 2 or 3 points means that anyone could have won. There is still a year remaining before the start of qualifying phase, but I see that we can not only enter the RWC through repechage but even through direct qualifying. We are able to do it.

- So, being realistic, were these two matches better than expected?
- No. I told players before playing that against Russia and Romania we could either win or lose the two games. If I had bet, I would have on one victory and one defeat. My previous assessment, that coincides with later results, is that we are not that far from them.

- Having a look to the squad that will face Georgia one could think we are sending youngsters to war...
- Not at all. Let's not give this match up as lost. I want to put the best possible team but we can not always count on professional players based in France or others in Spain that have their jobs and can not come with us. On youngsters being called up, if they come it is because they are talented enough and we see them prepared to compete and face Georgia. We are not trying for the sake of trying. We miss some players and our working group if romed by 45 players. Many circumstances meet this time.

- Some of them already shone at a European stage in lower categories, like U19 European Championship, didn't they?
- There are some coming from a very good generation (1994-1995), some play in División de Honor and some in France. But they don't have a bright future, they have a bright present.

- It's like a vicious circle. If French players come, we are not launching young players. If young players come, we are not calling the best players...
- Every single match is a chance for players to claim their place. I don't see where they are players or whether they are old or young. I want the best possible squad. Spain can not afford to make experiments and the national squad is not here to form anyone, this is not our duty. The ideal would be to have a B national team to give the youngsters some minutes, but budget does not allow that. Let me insist, those who are coming have the talent and level required for this challenge.

- After Georgia, Portugal will come and then Spain will go to Germany. The goal is to close the second leg with 12 points (we now have 2).
- The challenge is to play at our highest possible level. We are like Cholo Simeone, we are going match to match. In Georgia we will try to win, if we end up earning just one point... at least we will add something. We can't assume we are going to lose just like we can't assume we will easily beat Portugal and Germany. Second place has escaped us but the third is still possible. Russia lead us by 6 points and the goal is to catch them.

- Will it be a sporting failure if we don't beat Portugal and Germany?
- It depends. But we want to be third and we must add points. It won't be easy to win both matches, but we now have to think about winning in Georgia. Let's talk about them after that.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 25 Feb 2016, 21:10

I strongly disagree with the following article (it is full of blattant lies or half-truths), but I find interesting to translate it and post it here so you can realise that the use of French-born players in the Spanish national team is a topic as hot in our country as it is in this forum. "Spanish rugby, neither Spanish nor..."
http://www.eurosport.es/futbol/blog-de- ... tory.shtml
Spoiler:
The stampede by nationalised players from Spanish national teams in matches that take place in Tbilisi or Bucharest proves the laziness of a Federation that only thinks on the short term while thousands of kids play rugby.

Some years ago a player that is right now in Fidji with Sevens national team told me "Now all French guys come to Madrid, but you will see how in Bucharest and Tbilisi it's up to us, the Spaniards who are beaten to death like always". The comment came after many notable stampedes when we have to play far from Madrid by nationalised players that since a few years ago play for Spain. When it is time to go to places where they know Spain will suffer hard matches, they often disappear from squads under the assumption their clubs don't allow them to play with Spain. And then the squad is completed with young guns without experience or foreigners which make their life in División de Honor with less glory than one would hope.

We heavily criticised Régis Sonnes for doing the very same thing, limiting the participation of poor Spanish players to matches whose result was clear before their start and where physical disadvantage was their sentence. But years later we are in the same situation. Between the squad that faced Romania (and narrowly lost) and the one that travels to Tbilisi we have 16 changes. Most of nationalised players coming from French rugby disappear and only Jaime Nava, Juan Anaya or David Barrera remain with a few deserving Spanish guys sentenced to death. Some have already been capped, like Pablo Fontes or José Luis del Valle, but others make their debut like Oier Goia, Pablo Gil, Daniel Stohr, Rafael de Santiago... All of them go to a match where the best possible outcome is that no one returns to Spain injured. Spain has no chance to win and very little chance to compete, due to Georgians' physical advantage.

Why are we in this situation? Just because FER has not thought in the last two decades about creating a structure or implementing development plans for rugby. Today's president, Alfonso Feijóo, like his predecessors Alfonso Mandado and Javier González Cancho, bet everything on Spanish men's NT qualifying for the Rugby World Cup. Something that has not happened since 1999. And they do that claiming that a World Cup "will be the best promotion for Spanish rugby", a gross lie because entering a World Cup would mean a subsidy from World Rugby but in no case would mean a budget enough to make an effect on other areas bar elite players. What really makes an effect on FER's budget (that does not go far beyond 2 M€) and could even double it would be the presentation to World Rugby of a development plan like the ones done by nations like Romania, Georgia or Portugal. Countries that received up to 2 M€ to implement that structural plan while our federation was content enough with 100.000€ for competition expenses. We are in 2016 and nothing has changed: Spain keeps not presenting a development plan and burocrats keep talking about playing a World Cup.

And this happens during the best era of youth Spanish rugby, both in quantity and quality. We never had so many kids playing rugby in Spain. They never played so young. Spain is U19 European champion with a generation of players that has raised interest by clubs and academies from rugby's first world. And there are many young Spanish players hired to play in English, French and Irish youth teams. We never had so many games, legs or championships in lower categories. There are teams in cities where they had never played rugby before. Therefore, it is the best time ever to show World Rugby a project to create a structure nowadays inexistent that only survives thanks to regional federations, some local coaches or the father that helps his kid to keep playing rugby. It's the perfect time to develop a project that puts emphasis in formation and promotion in young ages, betting on professionalisation of coaches and referees, real teachers of rugby, an exemplary path previously followed by amateur Argentina.

Spain is ahead of its great chance to draw a project in the medium and long term now that it has young players. We should park short term policies that led us to strictly nothing and promise to keep leading us to nowhere. In the beginning of the nineties Spain was in the second level of European rugby, with Italy. Now Italy belong to rugby's first world and fight with England and France while we are in Tier 3 and have to keep earning our place against Namibia or Uruguay. We have been overtaken by Georgia, Russia, Portugal and we will be by Germany once they take rugby seriously. In the last ten years the only big Spanish success, even if some burocrats defend that women's rugby is neither women's nor rugby, came thanks to girls. Thanks to girls and thanks to La Familia, a bunch of players that have sacrificed working, sleeping and private hours for years to bring Sevens teams to the highest level, which allowed them to enter World Series even without FER's support then headed by Alfonso Mandado. Nowadays president, Alfonso Feijóo, knows better than anyone that because he was the national coach during RWC 1999 and because his son Pablo is one of the members of La Familia. One of those Spanish poor guys that had to suffer savage defeats in Tbilisi while French-born players kept disappearing once hard trips came.

Spain will have chances to qualify for RWC 2019 doing use of those nationalised guys which form what in rugby we know like a Barbarian team. But it will be a team that looks nothing like the real level of Spanish league or our rugby. Players that we have nothing to berate of because they spill their guts every time they war Lions' XV shirt. But reality is very different. The truth is we have thousands of kids playing rugby in Spain knowing that the most they can dream of is to be one of these Spanish poor guys that will travel to Tbilisi or Bucharest sentenced to death even before taking the plane, just to be thrashed. And as far as the same philosophy persists, paraphrasing that burocrat, Spanish rugby will neither be Spanish nor rugby...

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby carbonero » Fri, 26 Feb 2016, 23:47

"While a path begins in SA, another project begins to take shape for the future of Argentine rugby".

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCQQ9ATHPDY ... stinpichot

Not a big fan of Pichot, but I have to admit the dude is relentless. The Spanish/Argie SR franchise seems to be a total pipe dream, but linking up with Real Madrid is probably the only way it could be feasible.

Apparently, last year he also held talks with F.C. Barcelona: http://masdeporte.as.com/masdeporte/201 ... 11882.html

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 26 Feb 2016, 23:50

Why would he want Argentina to link up with Real Madrid?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 27 Feb 2016, 00:46

thatrugbyguy wrote:Why would he want Argentina to link up with Real Madrid?


Money.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 27 Feb 2016, 00:49

carbonero wrote:"While a path begins in SA, another project begins to take shape for the future of Argentine rugby".

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCQQ9ATHPDY ... stinpichot

Not a big fan of Pichot, but I have to admit the dude is relentless. The Spanish/Argie SR franchise seems to be a total pipe dream, but linking up with Real Madrid is probably the only way it could be feasible.

Apparently, last year he also held talks with F.C. Barcelona: http://masdeporte.as.com/masdeporte/201 ... 11882.html


In a weird way it makes some sense though. One of the biggest issue with the travel isn't so much the distances traveled as it is time zones crossed. If Argentine squads are going to compete in the SA group then a Argentina/Real Madrid joint venture based in Spain would actually be in a reasonable time zone.

I'm not saying it should happen or that I think it's plausible but a case could be made.

Additionally, I think Pichot may be what SR and SANZAAR needs to really drive growth in the competition. He's been pretty vocal about growing participation beyond even the new expanded format. Perhaps he see's this move as SR vanguard into Europe as it will eventually do into Nth America.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 27 Feb 2016, 01:03

Pichot is currently the biggest voice in terms of moving the game forward outside its traditional strongholds. Super Rugby in Europe though? It's not impossible I suppose, but it would only make sense if there's more than one team. But holy crap, if that were to happen it would make Super Rugby the first genuinely global sports league. Teams in Oceania, Asia, Africa, and South America already, it's covering over half the globe as is, but adding North America, which almost seems destined, and subsequently Europe in and it becomes the only global sports league on the planet. Ambitious to say the least.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 27 Feb 2016, 01:40

thatrugbyguy wrote:Pichot is currently the biggest voice in terms of moving the game forward outside its traditional strongholds. Super Rugby in Europe though? It's not impossible I suppose, but it would only make sense if there's more than one team. But holy crap, if that were to happen it would make Super Rugby the first genuinely global sports league. Teams in Oceania, Asia, Africa, and South America already, it's covering over half the globe as is, but adding North America, which almost seems destined, and subsequently Europe in and it becomes the only global sports league on the planet. Ambitious to say the least.


Ambitious to say the very least indeed. Would be an interesting exercise if they were to try. Who knows. I do think the move to the conference system was a clear statement that there were ambitions to build SR into something unprecedented in world sport. Probably not thinking of Europe but certainly the Americas and Asia. In the next 10-20 years it would not shock me to see at least another Japanese side (possibly two), a HK based franchise and a Singapore based franchise enter play alongside at the very least a consolidated 'Americas' conference.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 27 Feb 2016, 06:10

As told in another post on potential European franchises, Real Madrid is not a realistic path. They forgot a long time ago about multisport culture of European clubs (FC Barcelona, Olympiacos, PAOK, Panathinaikos, CSKA...) and even thought of dismantling their basketball section a few years ago. If Pichot ends up convincing Florentino Pérez of more than a nice test match or academy projects, I'll eat my hat.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 28 Feb 2016, 17:57

Unfortunately it seems Pichot only visited Real Madrid training grounds to inspect the facilities and study a similar project set to be built in Buenos Aires (via @JuanCouselo): http://www.cordobaxv.com.ar/pichot-ya-e ... -proyecto/

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby gladiator » Mon, 07 Mar 2016, 10:05

Spanish squad for the next match agains Portugal:

Image

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 07 Mar 2016, 10:21

gladiator wrote:Spanish squad for the next match agains Portugal:

Image


They certainly don't lack the muscle up front.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 07 Mar 2016, 10:27

Mixed squad. Many French-based players still missing and it seems some won in Tbilisi a new chance (Gil, Fontes, Sanz).

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby olivier » Mon, 07 Mar 2016, 11:43

Spain definitely give a chance to Portugal to win a point...

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby 4N » Mon, 07 Mar 2016, 11:59

The average age of the English-speaking expats in Spain's side is like 31, with most of them having around 10 caps. The Spanish union's development approach is certainly puzzling at times.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 07 Mar 2016, 12:11

Because there is no planning at all. They aren't players purposedly poached for the national team from their arrival to Spain. Just club hirings that shine in División de Honor and three years later are called for national team (I'm sure Sam Katz will end up being considered). I wish we bet on Jack Davies (Bath University) or George Stokes (Toulon Espoirs), young players formed in Marbella Rugby Club and which have been playing for U19 squad, but it is probably too soon for them to give up their chances to play in bigger clubs and national teams.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby gladiator » Mon, 07 Mar 2016, 15:51

In my opinion, the return of Beñat Auzqui is a great new. I suppose he is going to improve some of the weaknesses of the team.

The squad is a mix of players who are playing in Spain and France. It is very likely that this is the real group of Spain for next year, with punctual incorporation of players such as Guillaume Rouet or Mathie Belie, for example. However, the coach cannot always consider these players due to their club commitments.

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